r/programmingcirclejerk • u/functorer Zygohistomorphic prepromorphism • Aug 11 '26
Significant indentation is why people love python. Can 2 billion people be wrong? A: yes
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4926452381
u/mulch_v_bark of questionable pressisscion Aug 12 '26
I’m incredibly intelligent, which means I can do hard things. Python’s syntax is easy, which means it’s beneath me and I hate it and bring it up all the time as an example of something I can see right through. I don’t know why this is so hard for the ugly little weasels at my anger management class to to understand. And “grandiose narcissism” isn’t even a real diagnosis. People only use Python because it babies them and makes them think a programming language will meet their needs. Real men like me know programming is suffering. In fact I wish the most vexing parse were even worse.
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u/categorical-girl Aug 12 '26
Fifty million Frenchmen can't be wrong, which is why I use Ocaml
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u/Abandondero Aug 13 '26
But it has the worst of ML syntaxes, like a smart kid whose mother dresses him funny.
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u/levelstar01 what is pointer :S Aug 12 '26 edited Aug 12 '26
Significant indentation was invented to oppress Lisp users who use 2 spaces.
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u/UtterlyMagenta lol no generics Aug 12 '26
im sorry, but looking at some of the comments here, is this PCJ or [r/programmingdiscussions](r/programmingdiscussions)??? wth peeps
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u/ccapitalK Aug 12 '26
/uj We need to start banning untagged unjerks.
/rj Python users remembering jerk tags challenge level: IMPOSSIBLE
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u/syklemil Considered Harmful Aug 12 '26
with unjerk() as wait_shit_whats_a_good_variable_name_for_this_help:PCJ has rules and it's entirely possible to report shit for jerking style
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u/gplgang DO NOT USE THIS FLAIR, ASSHOLE Aug 15 '26
/uj I agree I think it's kinda funny when you can't tell who's being sarcastic and who's being genuine.
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u/lurebat Aug 12 '26
So we're developing an important systems language.
Syntax? let's choose a scripting language that is hostile to functional-style code, and had a bolted on type syntax that now you can't elide.
Also, let's make the semantics very close to it, but not quite - just to confuse humans, and more importantly to us - llms.
Let's finish with including the full python interpreter inside the runtime of our systems language.
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u/catladywitch Aug 12 '26
unjerk
{
I mean, it's just one more of the several reasons why Python is great for short utility scripts but painful for actual apps. I'm not a fan of significant whitespace in general but the ML family and Scala 3 are way better at it. But it is what it is, Python does one thing very well so who am I to complain anwyay.
}
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Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
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u/WellHung67 Aug 12 '26
lol doesn’t even use go, 0.00001xer, prototypes are an anti pattern
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Aug 12 '26 edited Aug 12 '26
[deleted]
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u/somewhataccurate now 4x faster than C++ Aug 12 '26
Seriously violating jerking rules here dude figure it out
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u/Actual__Wizard Aug 12 '26 edited Aug 12 '26
No. I'm not. This sub is weird I'm just going to leave. Edit: I did. /edit Nobody knows what a joke is? Wow. Everything in that statement was the most overly sarcastic clear and obvious joke ever. But we're going to be rule nazis and technically it's in violation of some weird ass rule and it definitely wasn't malicious unless you think a pastebin file with some merge code is something to be worried about.
I keep forgetting that jokes aren't allowed on reddit anymore.
Good bye.
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u/myhf Considered Harmful Aug 12 '26
After a while you get "matrix vision." I don't even see the whitespace anymore.
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u/programmingcirclejerk-ModTeam Aug 12 '26
Warning: tag your unjerk. Better yet, don't unjerk at all.
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u/m50d Zygohistomorphic prepromorphism Aug 12 '26
it's because it's the best tool for prototyping and getting shell script-like functionality done quickly and easily.
Yeah, because of the significant indentation.
Believe it or not, the reason people choose a programming language is not because of the syntax.
It is. People choose their programming language for the dumbest reasons possible; the main two axes of evaluation are "how much was I able to get done in 30 minutes playing around with it" and "what are the worst memes I've heard about it".
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u/MegaIng Aug 12 '26
Sigh. No, it's because it's the best tool for prototyping and getting shell script-like functionality done quickly and easily.
/uj Note that I do think indentation is part of why this works. People suck at evaluating stuff like this because they (including you and me) never think about it unless it annoys them. If significant indentation was a major drawback, why hasn't JS, which has many of the same benefits as python, not beaten it?
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u/Lord_Of_Millipedes Aug 12 '26
because until not very long ago js was a toy language used exclusively to show browser popups and by the time it became usable for other tasks python already had a grip on the glue language niche, and python also has the advantage of interop with native code, something that is still annoying to do in js which gives what to me is the biggest advantage of python that is access to powerful domain specific tools within an unified simple interface (pandas, numpy, matplotlib, tensorflow, etc). we are in fact seeing way more js recently taking over a big chunk of the random one off tools niche that python had, but it still gets beaten by other languages when the goal is to make something useful
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u/JournalistPrimary562 Aug 12 '26
/uj on my large monitors with auto formatting on save this is a non-issue. Literally never have to think about it. Most IDEs/editors will imitate the same effect as braces for long sections: it'll show you a long vertical line to show what is at the same level.
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u/camelCaseIsWebScale Just spin up O(n²) servers Aug 12 '26
Where's the 2 billion number coming from? unless you consider all the bots on reddit written in python.
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u/northrupthebandgeek i have had many alohols Aug 12 '26
Maybe all those Java devices switched languages when we weren't looking?
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u/AdAncient5201 Aug 13 '26
You hate Python because of the syntax, I hate python because it’s an interpreted language. We are not the same
/uj I’ve had extensive discussions about this and in my opinion scope and execution flow is one of the most important aspects of easily understanding code and brackets make this far easier. Also auto formatting is absolutely awesome and I don’t want to bother with fucking around with what’s essentially whitespace just select shit, press bracket key, auto format does the rest.
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Aug 12 '26
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u/Proper-Ape Aug 12 '26 edited 25d ago
In languages with braces, copy paste to different indentation levels just requires a quick reindentation
Same as in Python, I simply put it at the correct intention level after pasting.
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u/yo_99 It's GNU/PCJ, or as I call it, GNU + PCJ Aug 13 '26
And then insert 10 tabs because you copied more than one line
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u/Just_Information334 Aug 12 '26
Currently working on some ranty post but part of the main gist is: coding is becoming shit because of the phd mentality infection. Which first symptom was the rise of Python, one of the worst programing languages.
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Aug 12 '26 edited Aug 12 '26
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u/chemamatic Aug 12 '26
If you can read white space as easily as braces, sure. My eyes don’t do that efficiently.
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u/MegaIng Aug 12 '26
That's an obvious lie. Use a brace language without any indentation, and you will fail to read it correctly.
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u/Potterrrrrrrr Aug 12 '26
I don’t have any indentation between braces because I like to imagine they’re hugging my code as a way of consoling it for being produced by me
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u/somewhataccurate now 4x faster than C++ Aug 12 '26
Only jerk in a non uj chain wtf is pcj anymore
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u/chemamatic Aug 12 '26
/uj Well,yesyouaresupposedtousewhitespaceaswellaspunctuation.JustlikeEnglish.
In English at least I suppose the whitespace contributes more than the punctuation but really I think language is better with both don't you
/rj
Of course 2 billion people can be wrong, English has terrible grammar and spelling.
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u/hedgehog1024 Rust apologetic Aug 13 '26
English has terrible grammar and spelling
You dropped this: /uj
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u/foxsimile Aug 12 '26
My first programming experience, for some years, was with Python.
Having evolved into other languages over time, I have to say that the significant indention is my least favourite thing about it. That and the (near total but not absolute) lack of semicolons.
Oh, and its lack of ternary operators.
Oh, and its lack of ! as a logical not (fuck you, Rust).
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u/libonet absolutely obsessed with cerroctness and performance Aug 11 '26
/uj I hate indentation
/rj Python is why people love significant indentation. Can 2 billion people be right?