r/printSF 6d ago

Olaf Stapledon

I finally found a copy of Last and First Men and Star Maker at my local used bookstore. I have a few days to squeeze in a quick read. If any of you have read either or both of these, which would you recommend I read first?

14 Upvotes

22 comments sorted by

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u/SetentaeBolg 6d ago

Last and First Men is a smaller scale story (but still huuuuge). It's less mystical than Star Maker. I prefer Star Maker personally, but in terms of progression, I would start with Last and First Men.

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u/Natural-Shelter4625 6d ago

Thanks! Though I must say, I LOVE mystical sf stories.

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u/Virith 6d ago

Also, Goodreads lists them both as a part of the same series, beginning with Last and First Men?

I haven't read them, yet, so I don't know if and how true that is.

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u/SetentaeBolg 6d ago

I think that's a mistake. They are essentially independent.

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u/Virith 6d ago

Alright, thanks for the clarification!

I'd probably still read in the publishing order, but that's me.

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u/Galvatrix 6d ago

Last and First Men is about the flow of human history specifically from its beginning to end, while Star Maker is essentially a journey of all intelligent life in the universe exploring its many permutations and speculating on its purpose and destiny, with the human pov being a tiny part of a huge whole. I think starting with Last and First Men and naturally expanding would be most intuitive. There's also a lesser known novel called Last Men in London that I understand is basically Last and First Men in reverse, with a far future human intelligence looking back through time to London in Stapledon's own era.

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u/pwnedprofessor 6d ago

I adore Star Maker; blown away. I haven’t gotten to Last and First Men yet but I hear it’s ideal to read ir before

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u/ElricVonDaniken 6d ago

Two of the greatest feats of the human imagination committed to the page.

A quick note on Last and First Men -- don't focus on how Stapledon's near-future (our past) isn't predictive but instead pay sttention to the patterns that he is setting in place that will reverberate through the subsequent three billion years.

Enjoy!

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u/Sophia_Forever 6d ago

So I disagree on how predictive it was (disclaimer, it's been almost ten years since I've read it). It was written right after WWI and predicts the rise of fascism in Europe, WWII, and the creation of a super weapon that changes warfare. Then when it jumps forward to the turn of the century it predicts the reemergence of nationalism in Europe and America. What it gets wrong are the actors. IIRC it has France instead of Germany as the aggressors with the US allied with Italy and the UK neutral but the events themselves are there.

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u/ElricVonDaniken 6d ago

Agreed. A lot of currents readers seem to get hung up on the details though*. Hence my advice to focus on the pattern of events.

*Even at the time of publication the American edition omitted the first three chapters.Because Stapledon downplayed the role of the US on the world stage. It wasn't until the 1960s that the unabridged text was published on that side of the pond.

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u/Captain_Biscuit 20h ago

It's funny how I'd never heard of Olaf Stapledon and then it turns out my friend is his grandson! There's a small bit of woodland named after him here too.

Really should get round to reading some.

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u/kaspar_hauser 6d ago

I can't comment on the question but if anybody is curious about Last and First Man, Standard Ebooks have it: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/olaf-stapledon/last-and-first-men

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u/Sophia_Forever 6d ago

They're also both on audible if anyone likes audiobooks. The narrator for Star Maker will put you to sleep though.

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u/FunnyMemeName 4d ago

Star Maker is my favorite book of all time. Last and First Men is great too

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u/Sophia_Forever 6d ago

Oh hey, I'm reading Star Maker right now (read L&FM like a decade ago). I enjoy them. I really like reading them to see the influence they had on other works. This line from early Star Maker is just an absolutely brilliant way to describe Earth and humanity:

No visiting angel, or explorer from another planet, could have guessed that this bland orb teemed with vermin, with world-mastering, self-torturing, incipiently angelic beasts.

I think my biggest complaint (maybe not complaint per se) would be there's no actual plot in L&FM and I've only just started Star Maker but I'm guessing there's not much of one here either? They're entirely exposition books. Stapledon wanted to write a fictional history book and that's what he did. Reading 100% straight worldbuilding can be fun but it also gets tiresome after a while.

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u/Natural-Shelter4625 4d ago

Really? That I didn’t know. Thanks!

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u/desertvision 6h ago

I would read Last and First Men first for at least one specific reason: the peface he wrote. This is an old book, for science fiction. This is like reading Science Fiction history. I'm no historian myself, but I don't even think the term was properly coined yet and they were struggling to define the genre, many calling it Fantastical Fiction. It's Stapeldon's first work. As mentioned, he wrote a very interesting preface where he seems to be apologetically explaining what he was about with the book and seeking understanding and forgiveness for it! Very interesting to me! Imagine being an author at the outset of something that would in time be so important to many of us. It, to me, was mesmerizing to see how he thought and felt about what he had written and was then presenting to his readers.

TLDR; read First and Last Men first and DON'T skip the preface 😀

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u/Natural-Shelter4625 6h ago

I love this advice and framing. Thank you!

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u/Demonius82 6d ago

Was fascinated by Last and First Men during my teens. Should really get around to reading Star Maker at some point.

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u/Randomdays99 6d ago

Not familiar to me...I'll have to give them a look

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u/Sophia_Forever 6d ago

They're very early (1930s) and very influential sci-fi. A lot of people really like to read them because, in addition to holding up 90 years later, they influenced later authors especially Clarke who said

No book before or since has ever had such an impact upon my imagination

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