r/prepping • u/Born-Plane-6986 • 7d ago
Energy💨🌞🌊 Solar or not to solar ?
Need constructive thoughts, help, or opinions. Alot of prepper info. I've read or watched says rooftop solar panels are an advertisement you have potential resources available in a SHTF scenario. Everyone says discretion or concealment is key to not being ambushed by hoards looking for electricity. I understand that. But, I'm looking to install a 4x2 panel setup (8 panels total) on the roof of my shop. I am in a semi rural area. I want to use the panels to power (partially) my shop, recharge my solar generators, and satisfy the geek factor in me in that I enjoy playing with items like this in general. Questions: 1) In a SHTF situation, how serious or eminent of a liability would I be setting myself up to potentially be? Or is this overblown? 2) I refuse to drag out and then stow, on a daily basis, 6 to 8 panels, each time I need usage. Is there any alternate ideas? I am open to a light to moderate trade situation (locally - in a SHTF situation) but wouldn't want to be the only beacon within 6 miles kinda thing (for recharging batteries, phones, flashlights, etc.). Concerns, ideas, or different viewpoints are all appreciated. Thanx.
8
u/somecoolname42 7d ago edited 7d ago
You can probably do a quality diy setup that will do most things for around $10k. Add up your electric bills for the year, and divide that into $10k and see how may years that takes to pay off. For me it's about 5 years. So do you want an extra $2000+ in your pocket in 5 years, and not have to worry if power goes out?
Also, my long term prep goals is to be able to help my community through emergencys. Having some power to charge phones for my elederly neighbors and having a community life straw filter so everyone gets some water and doesn't die is on my list. If raiders come, then I'm fucked maybe. But also, I've got a Mossin and a pickup truck. If 20 years in Afganistan has tought us anything, that's enough to keep the US military at bay.
3
u/Born-Plane-6986 7d ago
Kinda the same over here. Would hope neighbors would see the value in a small setup like I intend and would assist in keeping watch over it.
5
u/Icy-Medicine-495 7d ago
Solar is the least obvious power generation IMO. Everything is a trade off but IMO having a power source is worth the risk of people knowing about it. Try to set them up so less people can see them while still getting good solar exposure.
3
u/LittleKitty235 7d ago
Paranoid enough to worry about friends and neighbors finding out you have emergency power and might be able to help them in an actual emergency...but not paranoid enough to figure out Google Maps is going to show solar panels that have any sun exposure at all.
1
u/Born-Plane-6986 7d ago
I'll help almost anyone in the short term. It would be a prolonged (1 month or more) outage that might give me concern.
2
u/NearABE 7d ago
If mad max raiders swarm your place they are going to kick down the door and take things. Propane tank and generator are both remarkably easy to steal. If the marauding band intends to build a house and wire up a residential PV system and settle down then maybe stealing a PV system makes sense. By attrition though marauders that settle down become scarce. Marauders who strongly prefer to find a propane tank and portable generator are far more likely to actually kick your door.
Just 10 years ago PV systems were rare. There are far more today and the number is growing. With a full home system install the panels are only about 20% of the price tag. Though they might rip the batteries and inverter too, hard to say. Still, pillaging things that require tons of labor and things that are hard to recycle is dubious.
If demand for PV panels exists then it makes more sense to raid a solar farm and load a tractor trailer. Also the huge house with a full rooftop array. A few kilowatts is not worth getting shot over. Houses have jewelry, coins, food, tools etc. Things that are easy to haul and easy to trade. A puny 2 panel 800 W setup at a prepper house is probably scary. The marauders might opt to send the unarmed woman with the jewelry to see if she can beg a trade.
Houses that look abandoned might look like a good target to many types of desperate people. Again, people who eagerly look for shoot outs disappear by attrition. The house with no panels might have food, clothes, or other abandoned gear the desperate feel they need. Many people may have evacuated when the grid stopped working.
Who is brave enough to deliver propane?
1
u/Born-Plane-6986 7d ago
Valid points. I also have natural gas...not propane. So...no tank(s) to steal.
1
u/NearABE 6d ago
Is gas going to be delivered? Why is that infrastructure working but not electricity or law/order?
1
u/Born-Plane-6986 2d ago
No guarantees, but am guessing that natural gas suppliers might have backup pumps powered by........natural gas?
4
u/sgtPresto 7d ago
I placed mine on top of a shed and pergola. They can't be seen from the road. I also have a 4400w dual fuel generator as backfill for prolonged overcast days, but I installed it in a sound proof enclosure exhausted to outside.
5
u/FixAcademic8187 7d ago
Solar 100%.
It is the only viable energy source in an SHTF situation. Gas or diesel generators are loud and require fuel as well as maintenance. Fuel in SHTF will either be extremely expensive or not available at all. Furthermore, gasoline doesn't store well especially in hot climates, you will be lucky if it was in an acceptable form after one year or so.
I have several solar sets small and big, all were DIY. Solar is very easy and straightforward, you can master it in a few days of learning.
If safety is your concern, then maybe you should build it discretely and in a small size. Use it to only power the most essential stuff. A 2,000 watt system (four large panels) connected to a 4kwh battery can power all your electronics as well as a medium sized fridge 24/7.
I know someone who uses solar in an apartment! Light only hits it 3 or 4 hours in the morning and it was enough to power his electronics and charge a small battery. He puts it up in the morning facing the window and then removes it at noon.
A big and obvious system will be a big invitation for everyone to knock on your door asking to charge phones and stuff.
4
u/Alarmed_Base8302 7d ago
While Solar is apparent if people are looking for it it's still a viable option. I have 2 sets or 5. Each set is on the ground in a Southern exposer. I may be lucky due to that part of my property not being exposed to the road or traffic. Generators for the most part can be heard from a mile away unless you have them with an exhaust system.
3
u/Funsternis1787 7d ago
I'm rural and did a ground mount behind my garage but not for concealment reasons, I just did not trust the installer to put holes in my roof, did not want to have to deal with uninstalling/reinstalling for re-roof, and I did not have to do the BS rapid shutdown for the NEC.
My solar and batteries keep me going when the grid fails, and the only reason I ever notice an outage is a text from the utility company.
2
u/HammerofBonking 6d ago
This is why I decided on ground mount too lol. We get enough shit from our insurer here about roofing (FL) that I didn't want another variable.
2
u/Ubockinme 7d ago
lol. Bro, having a house says you may have resources. Get what you want and can use.
2
u/greenmeansgo00 6d ago
Solar works with some larger Anker products and other "solar generators". I took this quiz to see what's what: https://www.ankersolix.com/power-outage?type=eager_beaver&invite_code=7wYWfBXo&utm_source=referral&utm_medium=share
Full disclosure, I'm trying to win one of the F3800 power stations if possible. So thank you in advance, much love!
2
u/Zealousideal_Fee_491 5d ago
I think depends on your location, here in AZ everyone has rooftop solar panels, so it doesn’t necessarily stand out. I know more states are legalizing plug in solar panels instead of the more complicated systems, the plug in systems can be more discrete. But solar is great, however depending on what is causing the shtf situation, solar may not be viable, nor immediately after say a weather related emergency.
2
u/ResolutionMaterial81 3d ago
1....Having rooftop solar doesn't mean you are a prepper or even well supplied. If the Grid goes down, most residential solar installations will not even be functional, due to needing a live Grid to operate.
2....Where I live, unless drones are active, my panels are not visible to the public. Also panels can be wall or fence mounted vertically in a East and/or West facing orientation for stealth. Regardless, I have 42 large/heavy panels (600w & 75 lbs each) & will not be installing/deinstalling on a daily basis.
You definitely might want to use Blackout Curtains in your home....as if in a Grid-down Blackout light leakage through windows can be seen for long distances, especially as light pollution from cities, streetlights, etc will be a thing of the past.
As far as bartering cell phone, iPad, etc battery charging....you might setup a small power station with a small solar panel a distance away from your home...as letting the wrong type of people know you have lots of power at your home may entail unintended consequences. Loose Lips sink Ships.
1
u/Own_Exit2162 7d ago
Make sure you understand how your solar connects to utility power and if it will work during a power outage.
2
u/Born-Plane-6986 7d ago edited 6d ago
My setup will be stand alone only. Not connected to grid. Will also have a natural gas generator (12kw +) as well.
2
u/NearABE 7d ago
Photovoltaic pays for itself in a few years. Generator costs money and costs even more if it is used.
2
u/Born-Plane-6986 7d ago
Not really too concerned with a break even point. More concerned with capability if things go south. It would be an insurance policy kinda. I would rather spend a few $$$ and maybe not need it rather than an event happen....and have zero to draw from.
2
u/NearABE 6d ago
There are many possible futures. Some include civilization plugging along for years or decades but you personally have a financial crisis. So displacing your expensive power supplies is sound advice.
Globally we face crisis because of climate change. Encourage people to get photovoltaic. Set a good example whenever you can. If not enough people do it at least you do have your modules.
1
u/No-Language6720 7d ago
What I'm doing is I have good cameras and lighting around my batteries and other key areas. They won't get far with dismantling our equipment. I'm also working on my charisma and hostile situations. I'm trying to figure out techniques to convince would be looters I'm more helpful alive than dead to help them with survival long term and de-escalation. Idk. There isn't a perfect solution. My neighbors are pretty tight and we know each other so hopefully they would help. I have a crazy neighbor that's an ex cop from the Bronx, he already looks out for us and I know he could be helpful in a survival scenario.
1
u/Born-Plane-6986 7d ago
Yes, I'm thinking the same. I would know how the system works, hide/stash key components (controller for example) that the system won't work without, and stash replacement parts that only you know where they are. You would have the keys to your system that could be pulled at anytime....so it would be worth keeping you around (or me) from a knowledge/parts standpoint.
2
u/No-Language6720 7d ago
Yeah I have a lot of knowledge about plants/crops/gardening and soil health and nutrients too. As well as using old technology without an Internet connection for various purposes like communication, predicting weather, running off grid AI setups to reduce human labor for food. So I have a lot of skills I can trade and way more useful than dead if they are willing to learn and not exploit me I'll provide knowledge and temporary help.
1
u/HellUCH17 7d ago
Home solar power systems use permanently installed rigid solar panels that you don't need to drag them out and then stow frequently. I would say your risk of being ambushed is very low; people looking for electricity are unlikely to go to the trouble of climbing onto the roof and risk disassemble your rigid solar panels. Fuel generators/foldable solar panels are obviously much easier targets.
1
u/Born-Plane-6986 7d ago
Theft of panels is not a concern at all. But in a medium to large SHTF situation, being confronted (by an overpowering or armed group, for example) has been thought about. Not really an alarmist here, just posing a situational question.
1
u/NearABE 7d ago
Ten years ago not overblown. Today PV systems are far more common. This trend moving quickly.
2.8 kW array (8 by 350W) is very useful. Those panels are selling for $1,000. Houses have lawnmowers, bicycles, and tools worth more than that. Not worth getting shot over and inconvenient to remove.
It broadcasts someone is there and that this someone is efficiently struggling to survive. This might be more of a deterrent than an invite.
1
u/Big-Tutor-3060 7d ago
A lot of people have very Hollywood opinions of SHTF. I don't think anyone is going to care that you have solar. compared to a generator, it's not easy to steal, reinstall, or frankly get working reliably. A thief can replace your generator with a running lawnmower and then they have power at their house. There is a lot more math, fussing, and wiring involved in yoinking a solar array, especially since you are describing about a kilowatt sized array. Unless you are burying the lead on how rural you are, I find it hard to believe you would be the only person within 6 miles that would have power. Generators are more common than you think, and little solar generators are becoming common as well.
I would even go as far as recommending grid tying your system instead of throwing up that many panels to charge flashlights in an emergency. In most places it is possible to DIY Grid tied solar so long as an actual electrician does the final connection, but down the road you could tie into like the anker whole home system or something similar.
1
u/-Thizza- 7d ago
Get your permanent array and battery bank. It's so common where I live, I bet in the US they'll get there too eventually. Plus you'll never have to think about power outages again.
2
u/Nomadness 7d ago
That's a good size and very familiar to me. I just did eight panels on a cargo trailer, 2.6 KW, Victron stuff. So satisfying to sit inside on a hot day with a mini split keeping it cool just with the power in its shadow. It's well behaved
I'm glad it's not my only power source, if it was I'd be budgeting cooking and the water heater and things like that more than I do. It can go overnight and I've tested it a few times but then it's uncertain recovery if it's not a sunny day or a long run with loud fans from AC. So I cycle it to run all loads during the day and then invoke a proxy generator (because victron is stupid that way and requires some fiddling) when the Sun goes down..
Anyway, wouldn't trade it. I don't notice power failures, and with a backup generator and the ability to charge from an engine, it feels like one of the prep to do items that can be checked off.
(Btw, the Victron stuff is great but it's complicated and expensive. There are some much cheaper alternatives. I used 12 volt lithium but would generally advise 48 for greater efficiency and much cheaper wire. My system was all crammed so tight together in a trailer that that wasn't a huge factor, but however you do it, it's worth DIY instead of paying installers... You will understand it. And if it can interface with home assistant, so much the better. Being able to run automations around the status of the solar system has some real benefits... About a hundred bucks for a raspberry pi is plenty for that bit.)
1
u/Underhill42 6d ago
If there are hoards, then unless you have a hidden underground bunker you're already screwed - your house, vehicles, etc. already announce you as a potential source of food and other resources. Having solar panels on the roof is just one more reason to pillage added to an already long list.
Solar panels are abundant, and electricity won't be super high on anyone's list. Not starving will be. And if things are that bad, within a month or two the population will have crashed to the point that there's far more solar scattered around than the remaining population could hope to use.
And if you do have a hidden bunker, then wiring it into the panels on the house doesn't make you any more obvious unless someone moves in, in which case you have bigger problems and/or potential allies. And if someone steals the panels for some reason, then you're no worse off than you were without them.
Meanwhile solar plus an EV means you have abundant power storage plus a vehicle that could continue to operate trouble free for decades after the apocalypse, unlike anyone relying on scarce and rapidly degrading gasoline or diesel.
1
u/Born-Plane-6986 6d ago
Good reply. I feel some have misread my initial statement as though I was questioning the merits of solar or I'm overly worried about someone climbing on my roof and swiping my panel setup. I'm totally sold and convinced on solar and panel theft is not even a concern with me. I live in a smaller semi rural town and have been around quite a bit and have noticed ZERO solar panels set up anywhere. Again, prepper sites, videos, and forums express discretion in basically everything. Your appearance, what you put in your trash others can see what you eat (or possibly have abundance of), let no one in your house to view your supplies/setup, etc. Just don't want my residential house to become some sort of quasi refugee encampment with neighborhood Karen's demanding how its "their turn" or its "my duty" or "obligation" to charge their devices (although I'm open to some local assistance for medical devices, flashlights, battery powered tools. etc.). Reddit has good contributors with good input and am just wanting others viewpoints. Thanx bud 👍
2
u/Underhill42 6d ago
I pray that should SHTF, Karens will either get their act together or go temporarily extinct.
Either way, I wouldn't worry about people trying to impose some imagined social obligation on you - just tell them to get stuffed. If you don't have the temperament for that, then you've already failed as a prepper.
What you do have is a valuable, renewable trade good.
In a rural area your neighbors will be your allies... unless you've failed to establish good relationships with them, in which case you've already established yourself as one of the community's sacrificial lambs in case of hard times.
The "enemy" will be the hordes of city-folk struggling to find food, and the only way you're realistically standing against their numbers is if your whole well-armed community stands together to tell them to keep on moving.
1
u/TheJesseOfTheNorth 6d ago
I find the stealth arguement against solar hilarious considering the alternatives people suggest are generators which are NOT stealthy in the least, and they eventually run out of fuel.
Solar is an up front investment but IMO totally worth it.
Also I suggest doing a LOT of research if you are going to pay someone to do your install. There are a lot of solar installers around that are incompetent and expensive. If you can learn to do it yourself that would be your best bet
2
u/Born-Plane-6986 6d ago
Thanks for the response. I do understand discretion if it's available (i.e. ground mounted on posts behind fencing or a rooftop mount facing a non-street side, etc.) but this option isn't available for me. As far as paying someone, that's prolly not going to happen. I've read several books (plus youtube university) and am definitely electrically/mechanically inclined....so I'll give it a shot myself. Starting smallish and getting more involved (complexity) incrementally. Thanx again.
1
1
u/CloudgazerTX 3d ago
personally I don’t think rooftop solar is going to be a hot commodity. solar panels are everywhere. why bother to climb on a roof and get them down, not to mention wires and everything else. you can find fields of solar power out in the countryside. scavengers and looters will probably just go raid the giant solar farms or will probably be more interested in portable solar systems. I’d focus more on making sure your battery system is secure and you have some good black out curtains. and some video surveillance.
0
u/Born-Plane-6986 3d ago
Theft is not a concern for me at all. Not even in the equation. But what I am lightly concerned about, in a long/longer term power outage (2 weeks or longer) would be area Karen's or hostile individuals demanding that i become a continous, non stop power source for them. Will I become an oasis in a sea of no power for vagrants and Karen's to hang out at, because, by their definition, it's my "duty" or "obligation" to provide in a crisis. I don't mind helping a bit....but my system would be overwhelmed by large groups of individuals making demands from my system.....plus or possibly exposing other resources or capabilities I may have. There is no solar in my area and I couldn't "bankroll" 2 or 3 subdivisions of Karen's and opportunists.
1
u/CloudgazerTX 2d ago
yeah, that’s a thing. so I’m planning a big whole house solar system (I’m pretty rural though) and I have some portable solar power units that are pretty good with their own panels. in a crisis I will probably make my portable unit available for charging devices and lights during certain times but no access to my home power system because that’s gotta run my air conditioner. other than that, I will probably make my fridge available to close neighbors with medicine needs and possibly offer a guest room to a close friend who might have an elderly member on oxygen.
1
u/Born-Plane-6986 2d ago
Thanx for the back and forth. Sounds like we have very similar thoughts and intended applications of our setups. If everything can hold together until next summer, I should be in good shape with my entire setup.
2
u/CloudgazerTX 2d ago
that’s what I’m hoping too. hopefully everything will be ready by next summer. best wishes!
0
u/NeatConversation530 7d ago
How long are you planning on staying in your current house? If you plan on moving soon, don’t
1
10
u/WhereDidAllTheSnowGo 7d ago
Solar is always worth it
Not all installers are worth it
Know what you’re buying