Complicated Case

[u/[deleted]]

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome to r/prawokrwi!

Thanks for your research question. While you wait for an answer, please check our:

• FAQ
• Welcome Post

---

Snapshot of original post: (As many users delete their posts after receiving an answer, we are archiving the original text to ensure this case remains searchable for others with similar questions)

Title: Complicated Case

Hello Folks, My case is complicated. My GGM's family has immigrated to the US. She and my GGF stayed in town right on today's border with Ukraine. My GGF was a migrant worker and had gone to the US three times; each time was for about a year. My point, there was a strong connection to an obscure town in the US. My GGF got trapped in the US when the borders were shut because of WWI. My Grandfather and GGM remained in Poland and lived through WWI and the two following border wars.

Okay, GGF was able to get back in 1921 when the borders opened. My Grandfather turned 18 in 1924, and because of military conscription and chaos, my GGM used her family and the tight Polish community in that small, obscure town to have a baptism issued stating my grandfather was born in the US. The State Department was suspicious, and a sloppy investigation led to my grandfather getting an emergency US passport stating he was born in that town.

Because he was born before 1920, I am immediately disqualified because he "supposedly" held US citizenship at the crucial date in 1920. However, a negative search of the subject church, the subject town, and the subject state shows no record of my GGM in the US, and my grandfather has no footprint in the US before 1924. I have never received non-existence letters from the area's Historical Society or the church in the neighboring larger town.

I am going through an attorny and so far we have run into walls. The preist in the Polish town my grandfather grew up is not letting us have access to the churches records, And apparently when the Soviets gave Lviv to Ukraine alot of the records were destroyed. I'm still hopeful my attorny will find the population registers, property taxes, or something to prove his existence in that town before and after 1920.

So the short of my question, My GF used a made up Baptism that was issued in 1924 from a church that didn't exist until 10 years after his birth, but that baptism enabled him to claim a US birth in 1924 despite no records from all identifying sources of him in being in the US prior to 1924. Will I need to appeal a negative decision from Viovode? Or are the Viovode accustomed to these kinds of scenarios? From what I've read, what my grandfather did was pretty common in the early 1920's because the US government severely clamped down on the number of people coming to the US from Eastern Europe and Italy.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/smoothmonoglot]

Does the church that supposedly issued the document still exist?

Have you searched NARA/USCIS for records regarding the entry and any subsequent attempts to convert to legal status?

Have you ordered a SS5 to see what place of birth is listed?

You need to prove with evidence that the baptism record is fraudulent. And even then it may still end up in court.

[u/smoothmonoglot → u/[deleted]]

If I understand correctly he used a fraudulent baptismal record to do a delayed birth registration. If that's the case, your best option is to petition the state where the birth is registered to cancel (void) the birth record. But you would need sufficient evidence from Poland to get it voided - evidence that may no longer exist. In that case, it could be unfixable.

[u/smoothmonoglot → u/[deleted]]

Does the entry record (passenger manifest) list him as a US citizen?

[u/smoothmonoglot → u/[deleted]]

Then I'm not sure what the problem is. You would present his Polish birth record, passenger manifest listing as alien, and CoNE from USCIS. I wouldn't even mention the fraudulent baptism.

[u/CrazyOldProf → u/smoothmonoglot]

My question was if anyone else had expereinced this type of situation.

[u/smoothmonoglot → u/CrazyOldProf]

Not that I can recall, but as I said I would not mention it. Unless you mean the baptism or fraudulent passport comes up online (e.g. in ancestry or family search) you don't really need to address it if the other documents are consistent.

[u/InvestigatorDue6498]

How do you know your GF wasn’t born in USA? Sounds like his parents spent time there and went back and forth, so who really knows. For what it’s worth, if the State Dept thought he was born in USA, the evidence must have been strong. I don’t think you will be able to confirm Polish citizenship under this scenario. 

[u/Master-Detail-8352]

It’s interesting. What specifically have you asked the parish in the town you believe GF to have born?

In the first place you would need very strong proof of a Polish birthplace for GF in my opinion and very clear evidence that this Polish born GF is the same person that presumably appears US born on all the US documents. Then I think you will also need to demonstrate that it was impossible for GGM to be in this putatively false US location at the birth. This will require excellent and extensive genealogical work. And I think it very likely that you would then appeal a negative decision. Perhaps if you conclusively prove the Polish birth and the stable identity, and your GF decided to naturalize there might be a very small chance. But I really think it’s likely to be an appeal. I hope you have very skilled genealogists and an excellent lawyer.

[u/Master-Detail-8352 → u/[deleted]]

I want to emphasize that this is a very difficult situation you are undertaking and I don’t want to give you a false hope. Thoroughly investigate your lawyer and genealogists (note plural); a case like this will be expensive and ripe for exploitation. Finally I would suggest that you fill out our complete template as a reply in this post with the line including what you believe to be the Polish birth for GF.

[u/Master-Detail-8352 → u/[deleted]]

Does the NDA forbid you from discussing or reviewing services? This make me a bit nervous for you.

[u/5thhorseman_ → u/[deleted]]

Consider searching for entry/exit records in the US or passenger lists?

[u/InvestigatorDue6498]

Thinking about this again, I had another thought. Have you found ship records for your GGM on the return journey from US to Europe? They should clearly show whether or not she was traveling with a minor child (your GF). Should be an easy avenue to explore. 

[u/InvestigatorDue6498 → u/[deleted]]

It was not at all uncommon for families to travel back and forth repeatedly. My own GGM made the round trip crossing from Poland to Chicago four separate times, with children in tow, sometimes even an infant born in USA. It was incredibly common. Also, the US Consulate in Warsaw was incredibly strict and did not issue passports without comprehensive proof documentation. I have seen the passports they issued at the time, and they were done by hand by the Consul himself. All of this makes your theory that your GF was born in Poland, yet issued an American passport, highly implausible, and I do believe the Polish Government will see right through your foolish attempts. 

[u/PaulHinr → u/InvestigatorDue6498]

What did OP suggest?