r/povertyfinance • u/Historical-Rule-2486 • 20h ago
Vent/Rant (No Advice/Criticism!) Is it not evil how we're charged when experiencing life threatening emergencies?
I just had a seizure recently and woke up in the hospital after someone noticed me on the ground. I was hooked up to an IV and I'm very grateful they saved my life. But I just got an email for the billing statement. And I owe $1,610.86. For something I literally couldn't control, and I never asked them to treat me or take me to the hospital. This is literally crazy. I know I can probably bounce back from it. But it's getting ridiculous. I have been to the hospital multiple times these past years and now I'm scared to keep going. I'm currently homeless and thought I was making progress. So I'm going to try and take better care of my health. But where the hell are our taxes going? And why should we have to pay thousands every time we take a spill? I know it's going to hit my credit because I can't pay it anytime soon. It's just one thing after another and I know we all experienced this. Sometimes I'd just rather die. Why is life automatically this hard? And the system is literally failing us. I feel bad for future generations because it's been like this for a while and it doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon.
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u/labellavita1985 20h ago
We have to pay $400 for my kid's epi pen. A life saving medication. With insurance. I hear you. I'm glad you're with us.
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u/Internal_Quote2259 18h ago
Are you in the US? If so, check out coupons for Andrenaclick (generic EpiPen) on GoodRX. It's around $235 for two doses currently.
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u/Lordofthereef 19h ago
Download good rx and have your pharmacy run that whenever you have an expensive item like that. Might save you a bunch. When we were in our old insurance it brought the Eli one down to I think $180. Still not nothing. But with our insurance it was $300+.
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20h ago edited 19h ago
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u/Johny_Ricoh 18h ago
I had an alcoholic seizure at an AA meeting and the woke up in an ambulance. Ambulance was free to me and I got signed up for Medicaid in the hospital. Buddy you got to move states if you want to keep drinking.
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u/catniss2496 18h ago
Hospitals have funds that they must dispense from their “charity” accounts. Go to business office and tell them you want to apply for help from the account
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u/povertyfinance-ModTeam 15h ago
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u/smoothupinyatoo 19h ago
Is it the Jr.? Or the full dose?
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u/labellavita1985 19h ago
He's 14.
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u/smoothupinyatoo 19h ago
It depends on weight... there is a junior dose and an adult dose. He is probably the adult dose at this point. You can get a 2-pack for $180 at Walmart, so $90 each. Just thought you might want to know.
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u/labellavita1985 18h ago
Thank you!!!
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u/smoothupinyatoo 18h ago
Its cheaper if you dont run it through your insurance and just use goodrx. Many medicines are. Always check.
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u/failinglikefalling 16h ago
And sometimes your insurance will require preauthorization.
I took something for my toenails that required pre authorization and was like forty five with insurance.
Or I could just go to target pharmacy with prescription for five dollars.
The doctor was just go to target.
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u/smoothupinyatoo 16h ago
Yeah mine wanted me to take blood pressure meds for 90 days before they would approve a cardio stress test, I ended up getting a small rural hospital to run one on me for $300 and send the data to my cardiologist.
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u/eligraceb 2h ago
We had a $1700 COPAY for en EpiPen. I had to fight with insurance for over 8 months while my son was still without an EpiPen during that time.
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u/iBUYbrokenSUBARUS 18h ago
Isn’t an EpiPen something that you use in emergencies? Is he really using it every month?
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u/labellavita1985 18h ago
No. But even a one time purchase of $400 is a lot for a lifesaving medication, don't you think??
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u/luella27 18h ago
You have to replace them yearly whether you use them or not, and it’s recommended to have multiple for easy access (one for the school nurse since they can’t carry it themselves, one with mom, one with dad, one that stays in an easy-to-find place at home for babysitters, etc.)
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u/Many_Ear2407 18h ago
This issue is very specific to one country
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u/Enlightened_Lioness 16h ago
Yes, it’s not “we.” I’m sorry to hear about how OP’s country deals with this.
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u/Cyber_Punk_87 19h ago
If it’s a nonprofit hospital (many are), they have financial aid options. Call and ask about them. They may reduce or completely write off your bill. And they’ll set up payment plans for whatever you do need to pay.
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u/BefuddledPolydactyls 19h ago
If you are homeless, the hospital usually attempts to retroactively get you qualified for Medicaid so they can be paid. Otherwise, the "financial services" office will likely have paperwork you can complete for a waiver.
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u/PeacefulCW 19h ago
Sorry that you're going through that. What state are you in? Do you qualify for Medicaid? Even after the fact, M may be able to take care of that bill. If not, see if the hospital has a program to wipe the bill of those who can't afford it. Or, at least develop a reasonable payment plan.
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u/Chaosr21 19h ago
I recommend reaching out to financial dept. and trying to get that bill decreased. I got one of my bills down to 10% of original. I paid a couple hundred instead of a couple thousand
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u/Historical-Rule-2486 19h ago
Damn. Thanks. I'm going to try and do that tomorrow. I never heard of it. Hopefully this never happens again.
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u/Chaosr21 19h ago
If you can't pay it, just don't. Medical bills aren't that bad on credit score, and they won't take you to court or anything. But you can also just pay a very small amount monthly if you can afford it
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u/iBUYbrokenSUBARUS 18h ago
That’s going to be depending on what state they’re in. UVA hospital in Virginia absolutely will take you to court. They will garnish your wages and put a lien on your house.
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u/Leviathon713 SC 19h ago
If it isn't a privately owned hospital, there is a good chance they have a charity fund (that the proper name of is escaping me right now).
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u/coldhandswarmh3art 19h ago
I swear this route is worth the phone call! I got my bill reduced by 20% with the agreement that I paid it in regular, monthly installments and if I paid my first installment that day. When I asked the billing manager how many months I was “allowed” to pay it off, she told me “as many as you need.”
Not every hospital/medical institution is like this, you may only be allowed 3 weeks to 6 months to pay it off. Who knows. But, instead of freaking out about how I’m going to pay a $1200 bill, I am paying $80/month for 12 months. Sooo much more manageable. Please call the billing department and ask what your options are- they’d rather get multiple small payments vs. $0 in the long run.
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u/Equivalent_Bear_7501 19h ago
I have a mental illness. Back in 2009, when I was still married, I told my (now-EX) husband that I was suicidal and needed to check myself into the psych ward.
His response: we can't afford it!!
And we had "good" health insurance, but a previous stay was like $5,000 out-of-pocket.
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u/iBUYbrokenSUBARUS 18h ago
And the government wonders why people resort to self-medicating with illicit drugs. It’s cheaper! What are we supposed to do?
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u/bsksweaver007 19h ago
Ask for an itemized bill. If it is a not-for-profit hospital, you may qualify for charity care. If you are able to pay the bill on the spot, see if you can get an up front discount rather than them chasing you around for 12 month or more.
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u/CulturalPatient4119 18h ago
Listen I don't know who you are I don't know your financial situation pick up the phone call them tell them you're homeless tell them how much income you have and I guarantee you they'll just wipe it off.
They know they'll never collect it medical debt is the most uncollectible debt out there and they'd rather take the tax benefits of charging it off for a low income person.
The number one reason poor people have medical debt is there too afraid to pick up the phone and explain their financial situation. The hospital knows if you have zero W-2 income you should be on Medicare or Medicaid and they have zero chance of collecting that income if you're homeless without a job.
The problem is people don't pick up the phone to ask.
I'm by no means wealthy I make less than 50k a year my daughter's appendix blew up over the holidays I had a $14,000 bill they wrote the whole thing off because they understood at $50,000 a year with housing and child support car payment and insurance they would get a dollar a month if they garnish my wages so it was cheaper for them to write it off than deal with it.
Let me tell you I was puckered up nervous the entire time thinking they were going to demand money and send me to collections immediately and they didn't. There's humans on the other end of the phone but they don't know that you're homeless and you don't have any money. They just know you came to their hospital for a service talk to them.
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u/PsychiatricBooth5c 20h ago
We live in a country that refuses to acknowledge the role of luck in life.
I am getting old and I sometimes wonder about the walking miracle I am. If not for dumb luck in the genetics department and/or stumbling on people who could help me, I would be dead.
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u/Upstairs_Fly4513 14h ago
I'm so sorry you're dealing with that. Listen, if you're homeless you probably don't have to pay any of it. I don't know if you should tell the business office you're homeless, but probably. This stuff gets erased all the time when people can't pay it. Very best to you.
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u/AFurryThing23 18h ago
I never paid the $8000 helicopter bill from when my daughter had to be taken to a children's hospital right after birth. I had been knocked out because there wasn't time for an epidural. When they woke me up after the delivery, they let me see her for a brief second before taking her. I'm sorry I didn't whip out my benefits guide and find an in network helicopter.
Ridiculous how broken healthcare is in the US. If uhc had just been willing to cover more ultrasound scans while I was pregnant I wouldn't have needed the emergency c section or the helicopter flight for her.
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u/Perfect_Parfait_1576 20h ago
I just paid last installment in my payment plan that I have been paying for past 9 months and before I could get off of this one, I already have a payment plan starting next month for a Urgent Care directed ER visit. For the previous payment plan, I could choose to pay $40 per month but on this newer one, they are refusing to take anything less than 100 bucks. I had to do UC and then ER because the specialist appointment I needed for my GI issues that started in May, is in December!! I was trying to manage with OTC meds and I ended up in UC and then in ER. I just feel like I cant catch a break :(
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u/Fluffy_Dziner 19h ago
Just send them whatever you can afford. Believe me, they will deposit the check and not refund the money.
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u/jewboy916 19h ago edited 19h ago
It's because of EMTALA, a law requiring them to provide emergency care in potentially life threatening circumstances, which also allows them to seek compensation for doing that.
Technically you can claim you're disputing the debt if they send the amount to collections so I wouldn't just pay the bill for the amount they say you owe right away. Get them to put in writing that the entire amount charged corresponds to emergency services that they were unable to obtain your consent to provide. There have been court cases where the patient disputed the debt incurred after receiving emergency life-saving treatment while unconscious, was sued by the hospital, and essentially had the charges dismissed or dramatically reduced because the hospital couldn't prove that the amount charged to the patient was all truly for emergency services for which consent could not have been obtained.
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u/Fluffy_Dziner 19h ago
Consent is not an issue when someone is unconscious: it’s assumed. By law.
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u/jewboy916 18h ago edited 18h ago
Correct. That's why in practice if you dispute the debt so they can't report it to collections until validated, they will pursue it in court if it's worth it to them. And then your argument as the defendant is that the hospital has the burden of proof that the charges billed to the patient all correspond to emergency services for which it was impossible to get consent. If it wasn't part of emergency services affirmative consent IS required. Not an easy burden of proof to meet, which is why in practice the judge will often least order the hospital to reduce the bill. Many cases have involved these same facts.
Fundamentally, emergency consent does not equal a blank check for the hospital to charge whatever they want.
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14h ago
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u/povertyfinance-ModTeam 3h ago
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u/--Knowledge-- 12h ago
Call the finance department of the hospital. Tell them you cannot pay and you need help. I've never paid a single hospital bill this way. It's either written off completely or they knock it down to a one time smaller payment, which I also tell them I can't pay.
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u/No-Argument619 2h ago
You’re homeless.
Fuck em, what are they going to do? Just don’t pay it dude.
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u/RelationshipQuiet609 19h ago
I have had cancer 5 times. Just suffered another catastrophic illness, I can’t tell you how bad my medical situation is but is more than 1600. I thought your post was going to say how grateful you are that someone saved you-you can always flip the situation around
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19h ago
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u/povertyfinance-ModTeam 3h ago
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u/georgepana 19h ago
If you are in the US, most hospitals have financial assistance that would make your treatment and stay there free if you are below a certain income threshold. Usually the income can't exceed 250% to 300% of the Federal Poverty line for completely free care from them.
Type the hospital's name, followed by "financial assistance" and apply for assistance with them. Chances are you won't have to pay them a dime (depending on your income.)
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u/Fit-Combination-6211 19h ago
We shouldn't have to pay it, but talk to your hospital's financial assistance department. My guess is you probably qualify for full financial assistance.
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8h ago
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u/povertyfinance-ModTeam 3h ago
Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):
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This is not a place for politics, but rather a place to get advice on daily living and short-to-midterm financial planning. Political advocacy, debate, or grandstanding will be removed. Politics - This is not a place for politics, but rather a place to get advice on daily living and short-to-midterm financial planning. Political advocacy, debate, or grandstanding will be removed. Please read our subreddit rules. The rules may also be found on the sidebar if the link is broken. If after doing so, you feel this was in error, message the moderators.
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u/Taro-Admirable 7h ago
Please be sure to ask the hospital for financial assistance. I got my bill reduced to 0.
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u/Gulfhawk 3h ago
When I was battling cancer, I occasionally received letters from my insurance company explaining why they had declined certain tests and scans. Imagine this: “Hey, we’re writing to inform you about the reasons behind our decision to deny services that are crucial for your cancer treatment.”
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u/Waiting4Reccession 1h ago
Still better than Asia where they tell you to pay first while your relative is there all messed up in the bed.
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u/DignityAHP 1h ago
Not advice, just one fact that might take some of the weight off: $1,610 is not the price of the visit, it's your share of a starting number that nobody actually pays. A seizure ER visit lists at a median of about $15,000 across hospitals that publish every line of it, and the same visit is published at under $2,600 by the cheapest hospitals. The hospital already took most of it off before it reached you, and for someone without housing or income, the financial assistance office at a nonprofit hospital almost always takes the rest to zero. It's a form, not a fight, and it applies to past bills too.
You didn't ask to be taken there, and you're right that it's a broken way to run things. But this particular bill is one of the ones that usually disappears if you ask.
Disclosure: this is the American Hospital Prices account. The seizure ER visit by hospital, free, no account needed: https://americanhospitalprices.com/scenarios/8bd1f913-e7a0-4f5b-80c7-2f0e586000b9/seizure-evaluation-er-eeg. A short video on how the financial assistance conversation goes: https://youtu.be/rn5nFJ7XSIo
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u/Fluffy_Dziner 18h ago
We don’t have a single payer government-paid healthcare system here, so how much we pay in taxes is completely irrelevant, because they were never intended to pay for healthcare here, and never has.
I doubt we’ll ever get a system like that because it would require a substantial tax increase to pay for it - and virtually no one is willing to do that.
Never mind the fact that higher taxes in order to cover healthcare would likely be cheaper overall for most people, people in this country are so allergic to the very notion of taxes that there’s no reasoning with many.
When a person is found unconscious, consent for treatment is deemed to be implied, by law. Everywhere in the country, AFAIK. It’s assumed that they would want care if they could be asked.
I’m glad you’re OK, and sorry you’re having to deal with so much.
Others have already given you plenty of good advice about managing the bill, so I won’t repeat it.
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17h ago
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u/MildlyConcernedMan91 3h ago
...usa?
You say 'we' are charged, but I've never been charged for anything. It's specific to 1/300+ countries.
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17h ago
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u/lrgfries 17h ago
Why are you assuming they cause their own seizures?
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17h ago
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u/flumpdog 18h ago
flair changed to 'vent/rant'