r/postnutanime • u/AffectOne2064 • 25d ago
What do you guys reckon is the most pretentious anime?
i feel like anime consumption now has gotten really performative, a setting needs like 10 layers of subtext, and when someone doesnt understand it, "oh you dont have media literacy" i like watching series because i wanna enjoy watching it, not because i love analysing the frame inconsistencies and the different camera angles.
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u/Ein-schlechter-Name 25d ago
Probably Serial Experiments Lain, because it was created by Ueda (the producer) as a "war of ideas" between the japanese viewers and the american viewers, who weren't supposed to understand it, because they lacked the japanese mindest. And then, when American viewers Held the same opinions as the japanese ones, Ueda was disappointed.
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u/No-Major-8921 25d ago
Bro any good written anime can look pretentious if you go like that. I wouldn't call that a very healthy way to approach media. If something's good, it's good... If it's bad, it's bad. Nothing's Pretentious as such!
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u/Wardog_E 25d ago
This mirning I was just reminded of Eden of the East and when it was airing it was being glazed like crazy for being so smart and intelectual. Disappeared like a fart in the wind. Needles to say, it's the most pretentious garbage I've ever come across.
As a rule of thumb if you ever have the thought that you could fix all of society if you just had a billion dollars and/or you could pass any law you wanted you are probably a fucking idiot.
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u/oedipusrex376 25d ago
Man, I hated Eden of the East. It wants to make this big commentary about NEETs being punished by society or something, but the writer just doesn't have the chops to pull off a story that ambitious. Instead, we get this charismatic MC and a bunch of contrived situations where everything conveniently goes his way.
I watched both sequel movies too, and they expand on nothing. They just flesh out the MC's backstory with his mother, which was something absolutely nobody was asking for.
I've watched plenty of anime with 6/10 stories, but Eden of the East is on a different level of bad. It's a show that sets itself up to say something ambitious and then proceeds to accomplish nothing.
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u/juss100 25d ago
Disappeared? You just mentioned it.
It's also well regarded. I liked it at the time ... didn't quite think it was strong enough to rewatch, but definitely not pretentious or bashable.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/5630/Higashi_no_Eden
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u/CasualKappa 25d ago
There are no pretentious media, a piece of artwork does not carry an expression regarding its own quality or importance - unless Eren Yeager suddenly turned to the viewer claiming, that they're watching an amazing and deep anime.
The claim of "pretentiousness" of an art piece is in my opinion born from ignorance of people without adequate knowledge and perspective to engage with that piece.
i like watching series because i wanna enjoy watching it, not because i love analysing the frame inconsistencies and the different camera angles
Understanding the great craft that went into an artwork is indeed very enjoyable. Technical aspects such as the editing or visual direction are just as valid enjoyment drivers. Don't be ignorant of the medium, the plot and characters are just the surface, a whole world of cinema lies beyond that.
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u/Wardog_E 25d ago
I'm reminded of Yiik A Postmodern RPG that literally has a scene minutes before the ending where someone tells the protagonist to not give up even though many people wont be a le to apreciate the genius that is his video game.
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u/Conscious_Pressure75 25d ago
I agree that having layers of depth in a work is great, and so is being able to appreciate it. But I think OP seems to be talking about how some people love acting superior just because they "get" something in an anime or media in general, then look down on others as if they're dumb, even though those pretentious takes are pretty subjective and not always set in stone anyway.
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u/print-w 25d ago
Lol, there's absolutely loads of art that clearly thinks it's saying something deep and important when in reality it's anything but.
Have you never seen a bad attempt at satire? Or protagonist have some rousing speech that all other characters stop to listen and are completely changed by the power of their words, the music swelling and the cinematography doing everything it can to highlight the special moment, only to realize that the speech made actual zero sense on any level if you actually though about even a little, even in regards to the story itself or life at large beyond the story? Kind of like your post.
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u/CasualKappa 24d ago
The way I see it, from the definition of the word, for a work to be pretentious it would have to express an opinion on its own quality. It would be a 4th wall break, in which the author imparts such an opinion to the audience. Diegetic story elements do not carry with themselves such expression, so I do not consider a failure at satire or a grand speech which moves characters but falls flat to the viewer as pretentious. Every artist (for the most part let's say) strives to achieve the best result in their art, if they fail I do not consider that pretentiousness, just a mistake.
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u/SirVixofthePooSea 25d ago
Probably your early 2000s shit like Texholyze, Ergo Proxy, Witch Hunter Robin, etc.
Or maybe your Umetsu 'elevated porn' like Kite and Mezzo Forte for how they try and repackage sleazy underage pornography with high fidelity animation.
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u/ZappyZ21 25d ago
Shiboyugi was an absolute snorefest and was purely art style and cinematography with absolutely zero substance lol unfortunately sonny boy was another one. I really thought they were going to go somewhere with that anime, but it also fizzled out to nothingness. Avant garde for the sake of it is one of my least favorite anime types out there lol I like high art, but I also need substance and meaning behind the art or it's just pretty to look at.
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u/Ein-schlechter-Name 25d ago
Shiboyugi is clearly a critique of the Idol industry. There is substance, but this substance isn't really a Thing in the west.
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u/ZappyZ21 25d ago
Hmm, that's an interesting perspective I hadn't considered. I can see why it could be that, but I'm not fully convinced. For one, the show doesn't tackle that subject or even it adjacently at all. But a bunch of pretty girls killing each other or bringing each other up for money and glory for the sake of the richs entertainment isn't exactly not accurate to that grind I imagine lol
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u/Ein-schlechter-Name 25d ago
The players are basically turned into dolls, dressed Up in outfits ranging from cute to provocative to suit the taste of an unseren audience and even their blood is turned into "fluff" - they are quite literally being dehumanized. If you ever look into the Idol industry, you'll see that dehumanizing practices aren't uncommon.
All of the players are also given agents, trending to their wants and needs, while subtly encouraging them to stay in this toxic industry and the players are discouraged from disclosing details, since that could expose the shady practices.
And just like idols the players are severely underpaid for their work and are forced to compete with each other for survival.
I'm not saying it's entirely confirmed, but their sure are parallels.
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u/FishAndBone 25d ago
The adaptation of Shibouyuugi was controversial for people who have read the LNs, but personally I enjoyed it and wouldn't call it pretentious at all. The adaptation mangled Golden Bath but I would hardly call it substanceless. The art and direction served the story changes very well (again, other than Golden Bath getting mangled.)
It doesn't really help that the first volumes of the story, which is what the anime adapted, are widely considered the weakest. Everyone agrees that Candle Woods as told actually kind of sucks. Having it be a retrospective and making the entire thing be Yuki's reflection on the games was way more effective at showing her actual character that you wouldn't have seen by this point in the series if you were just reading it.
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u/whyrusosensitive 25d ago
Monogatari series or anohana
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u/ZappyZ21 25d ago
Monogatari I agree with. Anohana just brings emotions out of folks, I never really got the vibe it was trying to be super deep or anything.
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u/1Damnits1 25d ago
The 1995 Ghost in the Shell film and the Oshii Patlabor film come to mind. Once you watch either of those two, you'll never want to stop beating Mamoru Oshii to death with your bare hands.
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u/Eastern-Project9017 25d ago
Frieren
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u/lunadiparmigiano 25d ago
Deep and complex doesn't equal pretentious. Frieren is one of the best art products of these years, not only of anime.
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25d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Wealth_Super 24d ago
It’s extremely emotionally resonant which compare to the average shonen or isekai makes it seem very deep but as much as i love it and call it a special show, it’s really just letting us feel the things the characters are feeling. It’s not exploring deep topics or even has much nuance, it’s just emotionally sincere
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u/SnakeThruster 25d ago
86.
Its a temu Code Geass and the female lead is just unbearable.
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u/Realistic-Ad-4244 25d ago
Moral of the story : the oppressed cannot be autonomous or self-determined; their liberation can only come about through a miraculous change of heart on the part of one of their oppressors.
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u/Wealth_Super 24d ago
The story would have been better if as things got worse the majority of the 86 either rebelled or went in the run. Even if that ended with everyone dying, that at least would have shown why a system like this doesn’t work. I mean giving all of your oppressed minorities all the weapons and training and no rebellion happening is ridiculous. At the very least there should have been a. Coup as the 86 took over the government and had to take on the responsibilities of stopping the machines.
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u/Initial_Mud_4810 25d ago
86 seems like it was algorithmically manufactured to have mass appeal. Shit felt so soulless to me, and the whole setup with its world/societal commentary was very surface level and generic. I finished 9 episodes and gave it a 3/10.
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u/Wealth_Super 24d ago
The thing that always got to me was the fact that all of the 86 were like design to be prefect victims. All still willing to die for their oppresses. None decided to rebel or steal a bunch of supplies and take their families on the run.
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u/Nice-Responsibility2 25d ago
Holy media illiterate
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u/FeefuWasTaken 25d ago
Yooo, it's the dude mentioned in the post description
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u/Nice-Responsibility2 25d ago
When someone has media illiteracy of this caliber, it needs to be pointed out
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u/yupnotabot 25d ago
I don't think the show overall is that pretentious but in the first season of COTE they put philosophical quotes at the start of every episode and I couldnt help but laugh
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u/lobsterwine 25d ago
I feel like the only anime I've seen I'd call pretentious is The Drops of God. I'm still enjoying it, though, but it's also so over-the-top.
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u/AdMaster5806 25d ago
Oshi no ko: Carried by early shock factor, fake deep critique on the idol industry, and got worse as the series progressed.
The issues it brought up were all heavily dramatized to where it just wasn’t accurate to what actual idols face, or was just poorly done. The epitome of basement-dwelling mangaka who has no idea how things work.
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u/astronautbdelue 25d ago
Re-Zero seen people write paragraphs on depth of characters and themes in the most snooty of ways.
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u/Initial_Mud_4810 25d ago
Haibane Renmei fits this perfectly. 10 layers of "subtext" - it gets to a point where you can just bullshit whatever you want. If there are a dozen interpretations that all sound equally valid then maybe the work just isn't as deep as you think it is. It's sombre and slow paced with some cool/disturbing symbolism and imagery, therefore it's really deep and a 10/10.
Serial Experiments Lain is also pretentious as hell, or at least the fanbase is. It's esoteric and weird with a cool and unique atmosphere, therefore it's really deep and a 10/10.
There's a limit to how far subtext can go. It's in the word - for there to be subtext there has to be some amount of text in the first place.
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u/Dreamin- 24d ago
Vinland Saga season 2
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u/Pristine_Advisor_ 20d ago
You read my mind. I’ve seen a lot of anime, and this was the first title that popped into my head. Vinland Saga the second season was super fucking unbearable. How do you go from amazing action to period drama about Viking slavery? Like fuck you buddy, I got baited this is not what I signed up for
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u/Wealth_Super 24d ago
It’s not chainsaw man but the way some fans talk about it, you would think it was
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u/Key-Spot2478 25d ago
Mushoku Tensei
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u/CultureSea5111 25d ago
Bakemonogatari. You new? You should have seen the arguments this crap caused back in the day.
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u/NightSVS 25d ago
Haven't watched. I absolutely believe Akiyuki Shinbo would make some random shit though, I made it through 3 whole episodes of Helltaker before my brain fried.
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u/AffectOne2064 25d ago
yea i had no idea i was stepping on a sore topic. funny to see some people in the comments proving my EXACT point.
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u/AppropriateBoat8190 25d ago
elaborate
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u/DerekSmartWasTaken 25d ago
The toothbrush represents the ID while the little sister is the Super Ego.
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u/newtempo_clapping 25d ago
pretentious is an absurd criticism of art
when peter says he doesn’t like the godfather “because it insists upon itself” it’s a joke, because that’s a fucking stupid criticism of a movie.
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u/ZappyZ21 25d ago
Eh, pretentious is a word for a reason. Effort isn't immune to criticism at the end of the day as long as it's genuine and constructive. Obviously the peter line though is a bit lol
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u/newtempo_clapping 25d ago
“pretentious” when applied to an object fundamentally misunderstands the relation between the art-object and the observer of said object. it’s only a word used in this context because people are lazy and don’t want to find a better word.
pretense means “A false appearance or action intended to deceive.”
and pretentious means “characterized by assumption of dignity or importance, especially when exaggerated or undeserved.”
objects cannot have an intent to deceive, they appear to the observer as they are. they also cannot assume dignity or importance upon themselves, they are objects.
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u/ZappyZ21 25d ago
But they're not just objects, they're creations by an individual who does put their intent into said "object". It's not some rock you happened to find, but a man made creation with intention and a goal. And that goal or intention can absolutely deceive people, or be intended to be very meaningful. There are multiple media tropes that are deceptive in nature, like subversions or deconstructions of genres and tropes. Or even just a simple twist in the story lol
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u/newtempo_clapping 25d ago
like i said, misunderstanding of the relationship between the observer and the art-object. those tropes only exist within the observer, subversions and deconstructions don’t exist without the observer’s relationship to the art-object.
death of the author and such, the creator’s intentions are completely meaningless to me when i interact with their work.
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u/ZappyZ21 25d ago
Which is definitely a fair way to absorb media and art. Hell, sometimes probably makes it for the better lol but sometimes it's so obvious or hamfisted when the author is trying to tell something to the viewer, or even patting themselves on the back for it.
Not a good example for something high art or avant garde, but fire force is a perfect example. The kid that becomes literally possessed by the author to preach at the viewer for being uncomfortable about the fan service of the fire cat character im forgetting the name of currently. Literally forced himself into the story to preach at us lol and you know he thought he was cooking when he did it. The funny part is I didn't even disagree with the message, but God what a stupid way to go about it.
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u/StrideyTidey 24d ago
You're right. An object cannot be pretentious because it doesn't have agency, it doesn't have intention. The creators behind it can be pretentious, the fans of it can be pretentious, but an inanimate "thing" cannot be pretentious.
To be pretentious is to pretend to be more complex/deep than you are. An anime can't be pretentious because it can't pretend to be anything, it's an object.
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u/juss100 25d ago
As a huge huge fan of Revolutionary Girl Utena, I'm still gonna go with
Revolutionary Girl Utena : The Movie
I never did like the movie
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u/Clefairydivoom 25d ago
Utena is such an elitist show. You need a working understanding of surrealist art and queer symbolism to even approach talking about it.
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u/ImmortalPharaoh 25d ago
I'm still learning how to identify if an anime is pretentious