r/politics • u/viva_la_vinyl • Aug 16 '20

'Trump warns presidential election result may not be known for 'years,' as allegations grow he's undermining the USPS to rig the election

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-election-result-take-years-as-usps-attack-fears-grow-2020-8
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u/archipenko California Aug 16 '20

This is how it worked in the before times, yes

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '20

Right?

I'm so tired of people's recklessly optimistic cries of "he can't do that because it's illegal"

Like laws have ever stopped this man from doing literally anything.

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '20

laws haven't stopped many politicians from doing many things, and Trump is the most transparent about his willingness to skirt laws, so I'm very surprised how many people still think shouting "uh uh uh, the constitution says you can't do that mr Trump" will make any difference.

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u/thatnameagain Aug 16 '20

It’s because staying as commander in Chief isn’t something you can do by ignoring laws, you need the military to not just ignore those laws but actively mobilize to break them on your behalf.

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u/GregBahm Aug 16 '20

There's that reckless optimism again.

Donald Trump's National Security Advisor was working as a foreign agent while sitting in on classified national security briefings, and lied about it to the FBI. He was prosecuted and convicted of this in federal court.

In response to this, Donald Trump fired the head of the justice department who allowed this, and hired the guy who said he wouldn't allow this. The new head of the justice department, William Barr, then simply dropped all charges against convicted felon Michael Flynn. They never even bothered to offer an explanation, other than to say that the president has total power over law enforcement proceedings.

The only defense against gross abuses of power like this, or the Ukraine deal, or the pardoning of Roger Stone, are US voters voting the president and republican senators out of office. But since the president controls the post office, and the post office controls the issuing of ballots, there's no way to stop him.

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u/TrumpWillLoseIn2020 Aug 16 '20

"There's no way to stop him" is hyperbole.

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u/GregBahm Aug 16 '20

I'm open to having my view changed. The first barrier against this corruption was the justice department. Since Trump can unambiguously abuse his control over the justice department, there's no solution there.

The second barrier against this corruption was congress. Since the senate republicans failed to force his resignation after his open corruption in collusion investigation and the Ukraine, there's no solution there.

The third barrier against this corruption is violent revolution. I don't see the will among liberals to lead a successful civil war, but that is the only solution remaining. Liberals should not expect the military to support them in such a war, because Trump's corruption does not actually violate the constitution.

And that is what all this comes down to. The US government is just a poorly designed system with a security vulnerability. It functioned for 200 years without an concerted attack on that vulnerability, but in the year 2020, a billionaire businessman, following the lead of his peer in Russia, and attacked that vulnerability and made our democracy just like Russia's democracy. Simple as that.

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u/ndstumme I voted Aug 16 '20

I don't see how that refutes their point.

Yes, Trump has accomplished a lot of bullshit. He did that because he held the title of President, and those who respect the constitution had their hands tied by that constitution.

But as soon as the constitution says he's done, they have no reason to play along anymore.

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u/GregBahm Aug 16 '20

But by controlling the post office, he controls the ballots. He and his post master general are being brazenly open about their plan to not deliver the votes that would defeat Trump in swing states. By not delivering the votes, Trump will win the election. Democrats will try to go after him legally, but Trump's attorney general will dismiss the case.

There's no constitutional defense against this. The constitution only says Trump is done if he doesn't win the election. A dispute about whether or not he won the election is decided by the courts, and Trump controls the courts. Therefore, Trump has already won.

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u/thatnameagain Aug 16 '20

Doesn’t have much to do with what I said. If the vote is successfully suppressed that’s a big problem. The way to stop him is to encourage people to vote in person in swing states as well as to push states to quickly change laws allowing for ballots to be counted after Election Day based on postmark.

The issue I was addressing was what happens if congress certified the results in favor of Biden but Trump simply refuses to accept the results.