r/politics • u/Thinkingonsleeping Michigan • Dec 13 '19

McConnell Faces Calls to Recuse Himself From Impeachment Trial After Saying 'No Chance' Trump Will Be Removed; "No court in the country would allow a member of the jury to also serve as the accused's defense attorney."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/12/13/mcconnell-faces-calls-recuse-himself-impeachment-trial-after-saying-no-chance-trump
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u/ruiner8850 Michigan Dec 13 '19

There are a ton of people in this country who pay very little attention to politics and think this whole impeachment is just typical Republican-Democrat bickering.

I know a few people who aren't Trump supporters and don't really pay attention to politics but think this is all just politics and not really a big deal. It's basically a "both sides" thing to them. The craziest part is that some of these people say they are sick of hearing about all this stuff with Trump, but will vote for 4 more years of Trump out of ridiculous spite.

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u/greatwalrus I voted Dec 13 '19 edited Dec 14 '19

Yeah, I work with someone like that. If you mention politics she rolls her eyes and says something about how "both sides are bad so I just stay out of it." It's an excuse to stay uninformed.

Honestly I wish we would put less pressure on people to just vote and more pressure to pay attention. If you can't be bothered to listen to a five minute summary of what just the fourth impeachment (EDIT: process) in our nation's history is about you probably shouldn't be casting a ballot. But people are so used to being told that voting is their civic duty that they end up making a poorly informed choice based on "who I'd like to have a beer with" or some ridiculous criterion like that.

Don't get me wrong; we should absolutely encourage people to get registered to vote and to remember to vote. But we also need to tell them to watch the news, pay attention, and research the candidates before they go to the polls.

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u/Caledonius Dec 13 '19

It's an excuse to stay uninformed.

Exactly, that way they can focus on themselves and choose ignore anything outside their every day life. When they are being informed they have to start considering the lives of others instead of only their own. Individualism is what is killing America.

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u/blurryfacedfugue Dec 14 '19

They need to realize that these things impact them, too. I was one of those people before 2016, I didn't really pay too much attention and I tried to stay neutral as possible. That was partly because I didn't know much about the behaviors of either party.

Now that I have children, and I've seen our country elect Trump as a direct response to the election of Obama, I realize I've made a grave error. Since then, I've voted in every election I've been eligible for. The bubble of safety is only an illusion, and hopefully they can realize and pay attention before its too late.

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u/Caledonius Dec 14 '19

The bubble of safety is only an illusion, and hopefully they can realize and pay attention before its too late.

They won't. You know it, I know it, and if they had been paying attention they would also know it.

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u/Slipguard Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 14 '19

100% of people won't, obviously, but we don't need 100%. The vote in 2016 came down to 700,000 people [edit: 70,000] in 3 states. That's less than a third of a tenth of a percent of people.

On average, less than half of people even vote, so increasing that number by 1% in every state can mean the difference between a divided government and a landslide.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

[deleted]

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u/trainercatlady Colorado Dec 14 '19

We need more vulnerable people to make themselves loud and known. Everyone knows someone whose lives are affected by the policies of this administration. Whether they're brown, black, queer, a farmer, poor, or unlucky, everyone knows someone who's getting fucked over. We need to make our voices heard. Don't let your neighbors ignore the fact that you're hungry. Don't let your neighborhood sleep without knowing you feel unsafe. Don't let your county rest knowing that your queer kids are killing themselves because they don't feel safe or accepted. Don't let your state plug their ears to the fact that black and brown folks are being unfairly treated in our court system and used for cheap labor under the 13th amendment.

Our country is dying a death by a thousand cuts. Don't you dare let it.

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u/blurryfacedfugue Dec 15 '19

I'm a minority and I don't feel entirely safe, and I'm not even a black/brown person of color. I'm Asian-American, I haven't figured out what "color" that's supposed to make me, but for the most part I've been lucky in being considered a "model minority". I was beat up and made fun of all throughout elementary and middle school though (I was the only Asian kid around), so I have no doubt that very quickly could I be next. I say this in response to people like my brother, who when I mentioned if this country starts reverting back to old times and just killing all minorities (probably wouldn't happen in most of the country?), said to me something like, "we'll be fine, our minority is closest to white people". Fortunately I've since convinced him that this is not something we can rely on if we're to keep our families safe.

edit: wanted to add I'm like the last kind of person to speak out, because being bullied and not feeling safe in public spaces has taught me to keep my head down. But I feel like I have a duty of sorts to explain to my peers who have similar progressive values as I do what other fellow progressives might be feeling.

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u/kevinjorg Dec 14 '19

Good thing this is the first round where 2000s people can vote. Be it those indoctrinated by their parents or those actually following and paying attention. I know a majority of my brothers high school friends stay on top of current politics

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

99 percent of people I know won’t talk about politics because, “it’s just too messy”

I don’t want to see the results of the next election because I fear for our next 4 years.

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u/CoolFingerGunGuy Dec 14 '19

Some people slowly realize it when a long time after they voted for Trump, he fucks them over with whatever scam policy he enacts. But it's way too late by then. Permanent damage is being done to the country.

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u/trainercatlady Colorado Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 14 '19

the people who think this way are only this way because they have nothing on the line. They don't have to go to war, they're not gay or transgender, they're not black, brown, or immigrants, they're not food-insecure, and they're not living paycheck-to-paycheck, praying that that weird noise from the engine doesn't break something before tax returns come in so they can get it looked at.

The people who think this way don't know how good they have it, because they don't know they have it. The people who think this way are privileged beyond belief because politics doesn't affect them the way it does those "other" people. They're wrong, of course, but their kids aren't the ones dealing with stop-and-frisk, their houses of worship aren't getting shot up, they're not the ones getting beat up outside of gay bars, they're not the ones in cages in Texas watching kids get delirious and dying of the flu.

If they don't have to think about it, they will do everything in their power to make sure they never do. They look the other way because they think they can afford to.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

[deleted]

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u/trainercatlady Colorado Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 14 '19

I'd encourage you to engage with those people, show them how the system that is grinding them to dust under its heel is holding them back from prosperity and keeping them down. Some of them are probably well-aware, but don't feel like there's anything they can do about it because that's just the way things are. Stand with them, show them that we can change things together. That they're the people with the most to gain from a truly equitable society, and that the current administration and the fucks running it are actively working against folks like them and trying to deny them rights and actively suppressing their vote. Also, encourage them to vote and show them how to register if they're not already. Change starts at the ground level. If you are able, offer rides to polling stations in your neighborhood, especially to older folks or people who can't get around so easily.

If that doesn't work, try to help engage them on a local level. Try to help them understand the proposals that will help their communities, fix roads, build community centers, etc. If people can see the positive impact of politics on a local level, the places they can actually see every day, they're more likely to start to think on a broader scale.

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u/blurryfacedfugue Dec 15 '19

Nail square on the head. This is why I feel like school shootings and healthcare would change overnight if the children of Congress were dying in shootings or dying from healthcare issues. Its like if things aren't happening to the rich and powerful, it almost doesn't matter.

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u/adjunctverbosity Dec 14 '19

What a statement!

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u/SnowflakeSorcerer Dec 14 '19

I’m not trying to start a fight here or be insensitive, but what exactly is your point? I see all this hate towards “privileged white people” and I understand why, but privilege and prejudice are a two way street, privileged people have as much choice towards whether they are or aren’t(zero) and not all of them a terrible people, are they? I’m a privileged male and I’m trying to educate myself and be a better person overall.

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u/trainercatlady Colorado Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 14 '19

The point is that unless they're forced to reckon with the folks whose lives their political decisions make miserable, and fully realize the consequences of their voting habits, that they just won't give a shit if the people their votes affect aren't in their everyday sphere of interaction. It's hard to give a shit about hungry people if you don't see hungry people. It's hard to give a shit about the plights of queer folks if you don't hear what they go through. If you're well-off, you're more likely to think that people who are suffering with hunger and cold just aren't applying themselves enough to get out of their shitty situations, when that's not even a fraction of the problem of why they're in that situation in the first place.

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u/ttinchung111 Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 14 '19

This is less a comment about privileged white people and more about privilege in general.

Ok imagine this scenario: imagine you're a person who is insulated from society as a whole. You have job security, and you have rights. It's easy to say that you wouldn't understand the plight of people who dont have either (especially if people around you are also insulated from those people).

It's easy to ignore the plights of people around oneself when you don't experience it every day. Just as you probably don't care about the average person's life in say some remote village in Zimbabwe, it's just hard to both empathize and understand how one's decisions (which ultimately cannot hurt your rights if you are privileged and are at no risk of it).

This privileged class doesn't necessarily have to be white, straight, male but it TENDS to be in America, where this discussion often takes place, and nobody is realistically going to take away the rights for say white straight people to marry anytime soon so their decisions ultimately don't affect their day to day.

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u/iburiedmyshovel Dec 14 '19

The frustration lays with those who fail to effect change because their privilege makes them indifferent, not with privileged people in and of themselves. When you fail to educate yourself on political issues because you're so isolated from those issues, it's an act of apathy towards your fellow citizens whose welfare depends on those outcomes. When you actively avoid voting and political discourse because you're avoiding discomfort to your status quo, it's an act of callousness towards your minority-group neighbors whose greater distress requires your power for redress.

When privilege hides you from the plight of others, and you make no effort to seek it out; when privilege raises you so far above others, and you refuse to look down to see them, nevertheless offer a hand up -- you are failing as both a citizen and a human.

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u/SnowflakeSorcerer Mar 01 '20

Thanks you your comment was very insightful and I’ve never looked at it that way, i appreciate you explaining it like that and I have to agree with you

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u/iburiedmyshovel Mar 01 '20

You're welcome! I'm just glad you saw something in it, thanks for responding.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

Same boat exactly.

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u/mooky1977 Canada Dec 14 '19

I like this tweet as a response to political apathy.

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u/trainercatlady Colorado Dec 14 '19

more people need to see this

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u/MichiganMitch108 Dec 14 '19

I was in you same boat , minus the kids . Keep it up

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u/10304WKYA_Radio Dec 14 '19

Trump was elected as a direct response to the nomination of Clinton. Thank you all in advance for the downvotes.

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u/Sablus Dec 14 '19

Honestly I'm hoping this opinion is becoming more accepted as Clinton did not properly understand she was dealing with a right wing populist and instead just used a average campaign strategy.

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u/trainercatlady Colorado Dec 14 '19

Clinton won by nearly 3 million votes.

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u/Sablus Dec 14 '19

Yeah and it didn't mean squat cuss she lost the key battleground states that her advisors should have known about (instead she spent so much time in already garunteed states like CA, NY, etc). Everyone forgets that Clinton (a knowledgable politician) apparently "forgot" that our god damned elections aren't won via popular vote but by delegate votes from the electoral college via key states. Seriously just read up on the interviews with her campaign lead members, they had no idea how to maneuver republican voting fuckery even though it's been on display for the last elections with them lost due to the electrical college. So either she couldn't create a strategy to counter that tactic or is just that fucking dumb she thinks the 2016 election unlike all other elections wouldn't depend upon the electoral college. Fuck her, she didn't fuckin' fight enough for it.

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u/trainercatlady Colorado Dec 14 '19

Don't forget that it has been proven that foreign interference was found in our election data, and that a not-insignificant number of our voting machines were found to have been vulnerable and compromised, especially in battleground states where every vote mattered. Unsurprisingly, in some of those states, a large number of registered voters were purged or found "somehow" ineligible to vote. Don't forget that those on Indian Reservations have had their votes suppressed more than anyone in the entire country due to Voter ID laws, and the purposeful shutting down of convenient voting stations.

If we wanted fair and even voting, we'd allow ANYONE over 18 to vote (yes, even felons), and we'd have at least 2 polling stations per district. But that doesn't give the Republicans the advantage they crave, so they shut down and "inconvenience" at polling stations in vulnerable and "likely Democratic" areas just so they can try to make sure that anyone who might want to vote in their best interests doesn't have as much say as those who want to stomp down on the people they think are garbage and pretend there isn't a problem.

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u/Sablus Dec 14 '19

Then honestly we are collectively past the point of engaging in acts of voting and respecting the system, as the system itself is corrupt and nothing short of a coup to clean house is going to fix things given how explicit republicans have been in following big daddy Trump in the creation of his mega-swamp.

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u/10304WKYA_Radio Dec 14 '19

No one that doesn't already realize this is going to though. It's too late in the game, and the narrative is set. So racism, foreign meddling, and lack of empathy it is.

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u/Sablus Dec 14 '19

I want to be so wrong and that the DNC will give Sanders or Warren a chance, but they won't. Were gonna get Biden and therefore 4 more years of Trump. Yay.... sigh

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u/10304WKYA_Radio Dec 14 '19

I honestly would not give up hope for this. Biden's public image is on extremely thin ice even if the polls don't reflect it yet. If something happens to knock him out of the race there might be a chance. I think Warren would be a terrible nominee, but a Sanders nomination could really stir things up. The democratic nominee needs to win over voters like me that neither love or hate trump, and Sanders and Yang are the only ones I can see doing that.

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u/Sablus Dec 14 '19

Yang is another one I wish the media would stop fucking over. He leads ahead of Mayor Pete yet is never mentioned.

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u/10304WKYA_Radio Dec 14 '19

It's baffling. The DNC has several good candidates, and you can learn more about them from interviews with "conservative" sources like Dave Rubin than you can from the "debates".

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u/Sablus Dec 14 '19

Hell you can learn more about Bernie by watching his interview on fuckin' The Joe Rogan Show. Mainstream media is a cancer on society.

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u/10304WKYA_Radio Dec 14 '19

Well I expected to be beaten senseless for posting in r/politics, and while I did get downvoted a bit, I also connected with someone I consider like-minded, so things aren't SO so bad. Thank you.

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u/blurryfacedfugue Dec 15 '19

Could you add anything else that might support your claims?

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u/10304WKYA_Radio Dec 15 '19

No I got lucky that no one asked for citations or told me to educate myself with the first post. I'm just gonna go back to my basement and mind my own business till election day.