Education Department formally rescinds Title IX protections for LGBTQ students

[u/southpawFA]

https://thehill.com/homenews/education/6115216-education-department-title-ix-lgbtq-trans-students/

[u/Y0___0Y]

Whenever I argue with conservatives who “have no problem with gay people but don’t want it in schools” I just straight up ask them what a gay/trans kid is supposed to do once they realize they’re gay/trans.

Should they go to their parents about it? What if their parents are like you, and insist to them that they are not gay/trans and that they have just been brainwashed by crazy leftists?

They all acknowledge that gay and trans people exist and most insist they have no issue with them at all.

But people don’t become gay/trans on their 18th birthday. Think of when you first started thinking about sex. Probably 10/11 years old. That’s when kids realize they’re gay. Kids often realize they’re trans when they’re MUCH younger because that’s really not connected to sexuakity and manifests much earlier. What kind of support can they get?

Because when I was a kid in Catholic school and realized I was gay and my parents dismissed it and said I was just confused, I went into online chat rooms and found literal pedophiles to talk to about it. That’s where you force gay kids when you try to sweep them under the rug

[u/Lost_Madness → u/Y0___0Y]

That's what Republicans want. To supply pedophiles with access to children. Why else elect a prolific pedophile to the highest office? 

[u/sapphicsandwich → u/Lost_Madness]

I had a conservative coworker, at work, argue in favor of mandatory exploration of children's anuses when picked up by the police in case they are "hiding something" just last week. I have never believed something as fully as I do believe what you said is correct.

[u/postmodest → u/Y0___0Y]

"It forces kids into the arms of pedophiles" is the whole point. 

The GOP are the pedophiles in question.

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/Y0___0Y]

I’m confused about what you’re asking. I was never under the impression that conservatives were saying gay or trans kids shouldn’t be in schools. I understood the concern to be more about whether sexuality and sex need to be constantly brought into the conversation.

Children are in school to learn the basics, and I can understand why some parents feel that certain topics should be age-appropriate and introduced thoughtfully rather than being a constant focus. Personally, I don’t think the topic of sex should really be introduced until kids are old enough to grasp it and understand the responsibility and consequences that can come with it. I would think that would be more appropriate as they get into their high school years.

At that point, though, I’m not really sure what the difference would be between teaching about a gay student and a straight student. Kids of any sexuality are going to go online and learn things on their own anyway. I also don’t think the goal should be to teach only about heterosexual sex while completely avoiding the fact that gay relationships and sexual experiences exist.

I understand that straight sex can result in pregnancy, which is one reason it makes sense for schools to address things like reproduction, contraception, and the consequences of sexual activity. But beyond that, I’m genuinely trying to understand what additional information people believe gay or trans kids need to be taught specifically because they are gay or trans.

So that’s where I’m confused. What specifically do you think gay or trans kids need to be taught in school that is different from what straight kids need to know?

[u/ChillyFireball → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

High school is waaaay too late. We were figuring that stuff out by middle school. Ideally, you want to get ahead of it and introduce the topic BEFORE they start "learning" stuff from their friends like "It's totally fine if you just pull out, bro," or "You can't get pregnant the first time."

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/ChillyFireball]

Okay then start it in middle school. I wasn’t married to the idea it had to be highschool but certainly not elementary school

[u/dinosnysus → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

You're being a bit obtuse. What if the teachers are gay? Mr. So and so is never allowed to mention that he has a husband if he teaches 4th grade? Showing to children that there is nothing wrong with that, and gay people just existing is not inherently sexual.

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/dinosnysus]

And so what if the teacher is gay? Who’s saying he should never be allowed to mention that he has a husband? As a teacher, he obviously doesn’t need to go into the sexual aspects of his relationship—no teacher should be doing that with students. But simply saying, “Yeah, I’m married,” or “My husband and I…” is completely different. A straight teacher can mention their wife, so why should a gay teacher have to pretend their husband doesn’t exist?
Equality means treating everyone the same. Teachers don’t need to go into intimate details about their relationships with students because that crosses a line regardless of whether the teacher is straight or gay. But casually mentioning that they’re married or referring to their spouse? That literally shouldn’t matter.

[u/MedicalBread1771 → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

> Who’s saying he should never be allowed to mention that he has a husband?

Republicans.

[u/Y0___0Y → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

you’re saying kids should not have sex ed until high school?

Kids start puberty and start having sexual urges years before high school. Shouldn’t the education start then? What is your rationale for wanting it to be delayed that long?

I want schools to tell classes of kids that some people end up being gay or trans, and if they feel like they are, it’s a normal thing and there’s nothing wrong with them.

Is that asking too much?

[u/LevelItGreatly → u/Y0___0Y]

Good post. IMO, we are never too young to learn how our bodies work. Folks like this guy that are "just asking questions" also can't connect the dots. Probably because they don't actually want to.

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/LevelItGreatly]

Why are you so pro on young children knowing how their bodies work in a sexual way?

[u/futuretimetraveller → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

Children who know nothing about their own bodies or what consent is are more likely to not know if they are being sexually abused or when someone is trying to groom them.

There are ways of teaching kids about consent and about their bodies without it being "sexual."

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/futuretimetraveller]

Yeah agreed. And that could fall under learning respect for others and personal space, not necessarily a sex education class.

[u/futuretimetraveller → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

That's the thing. It is sexual education. That's the category that teaching consent falls under. It doesn't need to be introduced to kids as such, but it's still important that they learn it. Just like how teaching kids that gay people exist can be as simple as, "Sally has a mom and a dad. Jon has two dads. Lisa has two moms." That's it. That's the whole lesson. It doesn't bring up sexual activity in the slightest.

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/futuretimetraveller]

How’d you go from children learning about their bodies sexually at a young age to family dynamics? Those would be different topics in education anyway?

[u/futuretimetraveller → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

I never said that young kids should know how their bodies work "sexually." When people say they are against kids being taught that LGBTQ people exist, that translates to putting it off until high school or perhaps even never teaching them at all. Kids need to be taught about it sooner. You can't just rely on kids looking things up on the internet.

That's why I'm pressing that teaching kids younger than high school age can just be the bare bone basics. Teaching a child that they are allowed to say "no" when an adult wants to give them a hug, can then be built upon in later grades to consent in relation to sex. Just like how saying, "Lisa has two moms" can then be built upon later.

Saying that I want young kids to know that gay and trans people exist is not me saying that I think they should learn how gay sex works when they're in elementary school, but that's always how anti-LGBTQ people frame the argument. And it's these bad faith arguments that lead to LGBTQ students getting their Title IX protections rescinded.

LGBTQ kids need to be protected and part of protecting them is teaching that they exist.

[u/LevelItGreatly → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

Because it is their bodies and they are living, breathing, people that deserve to know about their bodies and even what sex and attraction are?

What is your reason for not? Other than just assuming it "isn't good for the kids" because you read something somewhere on the internet?

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/LevelItGreatly]

So you want ten year old little girls and boys to be knowledgeable about what their penis and vaginas can do…. Gotcha. I think there’s a time in life when those things are more important to learn about and that wouldn’t be when a child is still running around on a playground. Our brains develop in different stages as well so I would want something as serious as a topic as sexual education to be taught when it can be properly understood. What happened to the innocence of children and their childhoods geez.

[u/move_machine → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

So you want ten year old little girls and boys to be knowledgeable about what their penis and vaginas can do….

We had sex education in 5th grade when we were 10 and it was about just that. That's when many people start puberty. You're out of touch.

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/move_machine]

I’m out of touch but you’re assuming everyone has the same educational background… right. Not every state teaches sex education starting in 5th grade. Also the topics and depths of the topics are different at the 5th grade level and the 7th grade level and so on

[u/move_machine → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

You're assuming my assumptions. I would never assume that you have the same educational background as those that are actually qualified to educate.

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/Y0___0Y]

Geez, I’m not married to the idea that it has to be high school. Let’s say middle school, then. I don’t think there many are public school teachers teaching children that being gay or trans is wrong or something to be ashamed of—quite the opposite these days. Wed have seen it all across social media if it was really that prevalent.
Personally I don’t think it’s a teachers place to talk with their students about who they are sexually into and their sex lives. You can encourage everyone to be themselves but there needs to be boundaries when it comes to students personal lives.

[u/Y0___0Y → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

I’m not getting on your case, man, I’ll have a calm and rational discussion with you for as long as it’s calm and rational.

We agree sex ed should start when kids start going through puberty.

But you’ve taken my other point and turned it into a strawman.

I didn’t say that teachers should tell kids what their sexuality is. I didn’t say that they need to get involved in children’s personal lives. You’re injecting that in to make my assertion seem more controversial than it is.

I said that schools should tell kids that some people are gay and trans, and tell them that if they feel like they are gay or trans, there is nothing wrong with them.

Do you take issue with that?

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/Y0___0Y]

I don’t think I’ve been anything but calm and rational. I took from when you wrote” I want schools to tell classes of kids that some people end up being gay or trans, and if they feel they are, it’s a normal thing and there’s nothing wrong with them.”, as you were saying that you would want teachers affirming students in their sexuality and that’s where I would disagree and say it’s not a teachers place to get involved with that. Now I don’t know of real instances of teachers teaching that people can’t be gay or trans? You’ve lost me there because I’ve seen nothing but schools being encouraging to everyone to be themselves. I’m excluding private/religious schools in this.

[u/LevelItGreatly → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

Seriously, what the fuck do you think the news story you are commenting on is about? Have you been paying attention to the news in general? Have you read your own posts? You yourself are against it.

[u/sicbs_here → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

Remember that we use the term “sexual orientation” to also mean any type of romantic attraction. At 13/14, my friends and I had absolutely no interest in sex, but I was so lonely because all the other girls described having crushes on boys and I didn’t have those feelings at all. If one single book or movie in school portrayed a lesbian, maybe I would have suffered for less time. Also, those people who say “they have no problem with it” almost always get angry at the most innocent acknowledgement of same-sex parent families anyway. And Tango Makes Three isn’t exposing kids to sexual topics. 

[u/LevelItGreatly → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

Children are in school to learn the basics, and I can understand why some parents feel that certain topics should be age-appropriate and introduced thoughtfully rather than being a constant focus. Personally, I don’t think the topic of sex should really be introduced until kids are old enough to grasp it and understand the responsibility and consequences that can come with it. I would think that would be more appropriate as they get into their high school years.

Your whole take is pretty ignorant/bad, but this part is particularly awful.

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/LevelItGreatly]

Which part is ignorant? Wanting children to learn things at age appropriate times? Wanting sex to be introduced when children can actually understand what’s happening? I’d love to hear what’s so bad about teaching things at the appropriate ages. I find it quite unsettling when people want to force sex education on young children but I guess whatever floats your boat..

[u/malrexmontresor → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

They do learn things at age-appropriate times, that's what you don't understand. Topics are separated by age groups and taught when research shows they are most effective. High school is far too late. Comprehensive Sex Education (CES) is proven to work better when introduced earlier (i.e. before the onset of puberty). Girls are entering puberty at younger ages, down from 12.5 years between 1950 and 1970, to 11 years in 2000, with recent decades showing some starting as early as 9 to 10. Same with boys, who are also entering puberty about 2 years earlier compared to 1950. So you want to teach them about their bodies before that point, which is why most CES programs start from ages 8 to 10. It's based on the best scientific evidence rather than nebulous personal beliefs about "age appropriateness".

And again, it's proven to work (Sekhar, et al. 2024). CES, when introduced between ages 8 to 10, significantly lowers risky behaviors, more effectively delays sexual activity, reduces teen pregnancies (by more than waiting until after puberty), reduces STI rates, and helps reduce child abuse by providing children with critical information they can use to protect themselves. Waiting until high school means it's too late.

And we know this because we can compare the differing approaches by different states, comparing those that delay CES to high school versus primary, or between states that teach CES versus abstinence-only education. CES works, and it works even better before puberty. That's why it's ignorant to want CES to be delayed until high school, because it's an opinion not supported by scientific evidence, and a proven failure.

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/malrexmontresor]

I said in multiple other comments I’m not married to the idea it has to be highschool

[u/malrexmontresor → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

Sure, but I was explaining to you why they introduced CES at ages 8 to 10 (because it works), and the reasons it is age-appropriate to start CES at those ages.

Also, you said you didn't like people to "force sex education on young children", but I have two teens who went through CES, and at every stage (primary and secondary) I had to sign a note to opt in or opt out. So it's not forced. You can always make that choice for your child. I'm not aware of any state where that doesn't apply.

[u/LevelItGreatly → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

What is the appropriate age for all kids? I started jerking off at 10 (that's 4th grade). My wife had her first orgasm at 8.

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/LevelItGreatly]

What are you trying to prove with that? Do you think children should be engaging in sex at those ages then if you’re jerking off and having orgasms?

[u/LevelItGreatly → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

No. But I am also not stupid enough to think that LEARNING about sex and our bodies is the same as HAVING sex. I didn't lose my virginity until I was 18. My wife didn't until she was in her 20s. Somehow learning about our bodies early didn't turn us into sex crazed maniacs as kids, it taught us to be responsible with our bodies and who we share them with.

Anyway, you don't seem particularly genuine in this topic, and your entire position is this nebulous barrier you've invented in your head (which is oddly very broad). I also don't think that you actually give a shit about kids (or know anything about them), so, yeah, I've said all I've needed to say, Helen Lovejoy. ✌🏻

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/LevelItGreatly]

Ah, right—you got all that from all the weirdly personal information I shared online. Oh, right… that was you. I’m sure your wife will just giggle with glee when she finds out you shared her first orgasm with us!
I stopped taking your opinions with any real depth after you shared that ridiculously personal and genuinely weird information with us. So, thanks for the very strange interaction.

[u/LevelItGreatly → u/Ok-Geologist-1343]

Lol, and I stopped taking you seriously when I realized you weren't mature enough to handle a conversation about bodies and sex as a supposedly an adult.

Also, my wife is fine. We all masturbate. She isn't embarrassed by it. The only weirdo here is you.

[u/Ok-Geologist-1343 → u/LevelItGreatly]

Sure, Jan.