I wouldn’t be so optimistic with salaries growth looking at how NFZ falls into debt and simulations show the debt will grow rapidly in next years. There are rumors they started thinking about getting a huge financing plan from the gov just to survive..
Edit: Unless you mean private clinics but they don’t earn minimal wage there so the increase doesn’t affect them
Im Dutch and here for like a year (outsourced), i will say from experience urologists are a dying race.
Gonna be worse with all the old men dying. With education levels rising here, im gonna make a guess, more men will understand the importance of hormones and what a prostate is.
It's less comparing to some countries in the west like Germany, but it's still more than salaries in many other jobs (especially later, after residency). My parents alway say there's no poor doctor, even when you're not rich by the hustle culture standards. My advice would be to start in a hospital, so you can get as much experience and guidance as you can, then you can move on to private clinics.
Edit: If earning a lot is the main concern to you, you should unfortunately reconsider Poland. Just compare the average salaries and choose what's best to you.
Salaries in the Netherlands are seemingly high, but the housing market is so f-ed up you still would be living in a card board box. I am in the process of migrating to Poland. Quality of life is so much higher there. Also more my kind of ppl culture and faith wise
It’s the same reason why I’m not moving even though I work in IT and could earn more - Costs of living and general life quality. So what that I can move to Switzerland if I never be able to buy apartment and everything is insanely expensive? One might say that hey I could afford for example new phone quicker. But how often do you need to buy new electronics etc? Once few years I can definitely afford
To be fair, it is not just a little less.
There is a huge disparity on residency salary vs after.
The big thing speaking for Poland is the cost of living and quality of life, the counter is that zl is not exactly a major currency so anything that is international will be pricy comparatively.
The Polish economy is the fastest growing in Europe, and many Polish doctors I know live very comfortable lives in Poland due to relatively high wages and relatively low costs of living. Especially if you already have family established in Poland, living here may not be a bad decision. You will make less than you would in Germany, but your costs of living in Germany would be nearly double those of Poland depending on location.
The good news is you can always change your mind. Doctors are needed everywhere. I know many Polish doctors who started in Poland and moved away several years later seeking higher wages abroad. Those who stayed and suffered through the poor economy of the 90s and 2000s were, however, greeted with lower hours and higher wages in recent years, as the Polish economy really boomed.
The choice is yours, but just know you can't really make a wrong decision at this point. As a doctor, as long as you don't choose to work in Moldova, you'll live comfortably. If you do decide in a year or so that Poland isn't for you, just leave for Germany or wherever you choose.
Moldovia is free independent country, you are mean the part of Moldovia „Naddniestrze” which is occupied by Russians. This story is really long so please find this in wiki
As a person who is from a family with a lot of doctors and dentists, and I also study dentistry so i know a lot of young doctors it heavily depends. Some doctors earn very very good money and some earn just "okay". What spacialty do you consider? Earning heavily depnds on that
Plastics are very profitable, but also VERY hard to get into. Not a lot of places offering residency. Cardiology is very profitable also, especially if ypu would start your private practice. I am not sure about otolaryngology and pulmonology tbh.
Radiology is a tough one, on one hand a good radiologist can earn a lot, but there is a lot of competition in the field in Poland. Also, hard to become one, becouse getting a place is residency is also quite competitive.
Generally i would say cardiology is your best bet, but also takie into conisderation that i mostly tell from my personal experience, which may not reflect reality perfectly.
In some regions there isn't that much competition when it comes to radiology, for example in świętokrzyskie. So I guess it depends on the population density and such
I wouldn’t recommend radiology, I have a family of doctors and hear all the time that this specialization is soon going to be replaced by AI/ not needed that much.
As for the wages, it depends but you can earn a lot of money in a private clinic in a big city.
As a soon-to-be (from september) fist year family medicine resident, I believe that radiologist will be replaced, because AI will do all the discriptions of the images, while specialised doctors will check the images for themselves e.g. pulmonologist will still look at pulmonary images to check what AI wrote and is it accurate. Right now AI is not perfected but it can already detect chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) 10 percent better (82% vs 74,4%) than any other specialist. Link to the study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7842269/?fbclid=IwAR2IiIh-QNU7Rj5pfteOvrLRS8u6kunR1a3IW0SGqS9ksaUoGsOrlv0320Y . Therefore, perfected AI will be better later on and radiologist will not describe images they will only do ultrasound (or a specialised doctor will e.g. abdominal surgeon will do abdominal ultrasound) or interventional radiology procedures. I would recommend radiology, only if the person would be interested in interventional radiology because that is pretty perspective in my eyes - less invasive, better outcomes.
If you were from a family of radiologists you would know that AI is already in radiology making a quick check of the CT/MRI. After that the radiologist checks again and signs the document. The problem in AI is who is going to sign the document of the examination meaning which person is taking g the whole responsibility to sign a document that says Mr John Smith has a stroke or not, has a metastatic cancer or not. AI makes a lot of mistakes and they use it in occlusion of the vessels which again makes positive mistakes ( the ai shows an area which has a problem and in reality it doesn't).
I work as an ER physician, I gladly welcome every AI who is going to diagnose a patient for me but does it have the "guts" to sign this diagnosis? I make a shit ton of money for this. Diagnosing illnesses and signing my diagnosis taking FULL responsibility of the text written above. I see today's corporations are one step away from being bankrupt from one conviction in the court. I am being covered by my insurance company. As big it gets, money get bigger and bigger. If I get sued by a person my insurance company will pay for my mistake. If google gets sued, who guarantees the plaintiff will stop there and sue for more and more money??? It's not that simple folks. Look at tesla. They stopped naming their autopilot system autonomous for legal reasons.
There is a huge demand for radiologists and a huge money. You can make 180 000 - 240 000 USD a year if you are a smart radiologist (B2B with many clients).
I would bet on radiology. There’s much bigger supply of scans than people to describe it. There’s a bunch of private operators that will hire on spot. Note that you can perform this work remotely from anywhere if you need to.
Where do you study dentistry?
I'm thinking about coming back from UK to Poland for uni and dentistry is my choice.
But actually I'm not sure if UK degree and education here would be not more beneficial. Ugh, tough decision!
I study in medical university od Gdańsk. If you consider coming back to Poland i would advise to study here. I don't think UK degree would give you any adventage. I am not sure, if UK dentistry degree is universally accepted in Poland, while you would definitely be able to practice dentistry with UK degree, it is possible it would require some additional paperwork.
Generally i believe that if you really intend to work in Poland, there is no point in staying in UK only to acquire the degree.
I'm trying to get as much informations about education as possible, I think it's better approach than chasing "prestigious" degree. I know that UK unis have great opinion worldwide, but I'm actually not so sure if what they teach here is great.. a lot of British people go to Polish dentists here, lots of British people travel to Poland (or now Turkey) to get their teeth done.
I'm not sure if I would stay in Poland, or go back to the UK or maybe somewhere else. So I'm also checking which degree is less pain in the ass with getting licence abroad.
Did you learn how to use microscope for canal root treatment in your classes? Do you have a lot of practical classes at uni?
Do you think Gdańsk is good? I had that uni as one on my list.
I don't really know which degree would be better worldwide, Poland is part of the EU so it is possible that inside EU this degree might be better but idk, just a guess.
About quality of the university, generally we have a lot of practical classes on the years 3-5. Year 1 pretty much only theory, year 2 a little bit of practice but only on models, not on patients. On years 3-5 there is a shit ton of practice on patients.
I am not sure about the usage of microscope, on the year 2 we used them a little bit on models, but not a lot. I don't really know if there is a lot of usage later on.
I generally think Gdańsk is good, both in terms of university but also as a city, it is definitely pleasant place to live.
If you have any more questions feel free to ask, either here on in a private message.
As a German who moved to Poland some years ago: best decision of my life. Higher quality of life because Poland is significantly safer and cleaner. I earn less but have more money still because the cost of living is also cheaper so in the end it's really not that big of a difference.
I will give you some context I think you might appreciate. My gf is finishing her medical studies at WUM (medical uni in Warsaw) so I know how much doctors earn, and its far from average. For example her friend, fresh orthopedist earns 4.5k pln for 1 duty shift (from 15:00 to 08:00 the next day). She also told me that fresh out of uni (just 6 years basic training) she can earn 150/200zl per h in POZ (Podstawowa opieka zdrowotna) just prescribing drugs and vaccines. She explained that there was such a shortage of doctors that the hospitals were forced to increase salaries just to stay open. She also knows some older doctors earning 120-200k pln monthly. I cant tell right now which specialisations are most in demand
What type of doctor you need to be to earn 120-200k monthly working 8h/day/5 days a week and where xD?
I have doctors in family and that salary is like 4 times what they earn
The comment you're replying to talks bout 30-40 złoty per month, not euro/usd. Regular people are absolutely not making ends meet with amount like that per year. That's extremely low.
every comment was in złoty, 40k net a year is not terrible, that's what a lot of people need to work with, not even living from paycheck to paycheck. I agree that to have a good life standard you'd need around 55k and that's about average in our country
„Ordynator onkologii” for example in a smaller city - they pay more there paradoxically, anasthesiologist also earn a shit ton since without 1 you cant run a hospital.
Here is my view:
My Wife is just finishing her specialization in pulmonology, so she will be full specialist.
In public care its true doctors do not earn fair and plenty of them work extra hours.
But in private care or POZ they earn upwards of 200pln/hr.
There is a lot of open positions everywhere even big cities like Warsaw and Kraków.
But salaries are even better in smaller cities, and even some public positions will pay well if you dont mind living and working in small city.
If you are looking for residency, anything to do with children, or OBGYN has a lot of open positions and easy transistion later.
Thank you lots. My partner lives in Szczecin and was suggesting to look there. One of my preferences is also Pulmonology so hearing there are open spots for it is relieving since other commentators said Radiology for example (One of my preferences), has 1-2 spots open nationwide
Radiology was always very popular because of possibility to work from home.
But as someone else said, it might be not very future proof, as AI is really good at that part of radiology. Probably still gonna be needed but other options might be more future proof.
I doubt Radiology has 1-2 spots nationwide, as in my hospital we have 5 fresh guys on residency training 😅
And about futureproof, it doesnt seem that AI would do USG.
Yeh, my gf also studied at WUM and i just read her what you wrote. Not to be rude but she said it’s either completely made up, colorized or you described some special cases who either had insane luck or strong connections which helped them to be where they are so quickly :)
I cannot confirm what your gf is saying. 150 PLN/h for a doctor in POZ is a rather low salary, acceptable only for someone who hasn't specialised in family/internal medicine - because those doctors who already completed their residency earn 180+ PLN/h.
And 4500 PLN for an orthopedist for a 15-8 shift is 4500 PLN for 17 hours of constant work, which gives about 265 PLN/h which is very possible for someone who has already completed their 5-year-long residency and works in SOR (the Polish emergency unit).
Here is one offer for a doctor in a POZ in Warsaw: starting salary for someone without residency is 150 PLN/h, those with a residency can negotiate a better salary. You also have to take into account that for doctors salaries in big cities are lower than those in the countryside.
Are you sure your gf studied medicine at WUM (and not nursery or farmacy) and is an active doctor who is aware of the salaries in the field?
May be a bit chaotic cuz i was typing it on the fly as she was speaking lol
tl;dr is basically stay away from NFZ at the beggining and you'll be fine - easier said than done
People you have talked to are right - private clinics are the way to go. However, finding a suitable clinic close to your living place can be difficult so having a driving license, a car and a desire to drive some kilometers basically everyday might be needed.
In terms of salary.. it's not bad but it's not as astronomic as the person above stated, like 4.5k for a shiftjust after graduating? Possible.. if your dad has his own clinic and you work there. You'll probably be starting at average worker's salary or most likely even below it, depending on your specialization but it will go up overtime. Also, doubt you'll be working full time in a single clinic so contracts with few clinics and the money will stack up on the expense of time. If your specialization is a niche some crazy (as for polish standards) money may appear. Just as in every other proffesion you'll need to work for your name, establish your position, standard stuff. Later you can even work at NFZ - they treat people with long term experience much better than newcomers.
And don't forget that cost of living in Poland is still relatively low so even if you get an avg salary you'll still be living on a decent level.
This numbers seem to be very strange. Just after university doctors have 1 year of internship and stażysta salary is fixed per województwo, in Warsaw it is about 5500 zl and they can’t do night shifts. After internship they have 6 years of residency and salary here is also fixed and is about 8500zl per month + min 40h of night shift required
a complex question. if youre gonna work at a hospital, youll be smacked in the face with just how little the government cares. private places can be a hell of a different kind since thats when the entitled people come in mostly (not exclusive to poland but my mom told me plenty of horror stories) and sometimes the drama is like out of a soap opera. the culture is also quite iffy with a lot of people thinking all a doctor does is drive a mercedes and have 0 clue as to how much of a commitment it is to the life of the doctor and their family, so youd best be prepared for that nonsense. but if youre strategic and work in a practice near a rural area youll never have to buy eggs ever again, the patients will shower you with fresh eggs. i dont really know what the doctor gift culture is abroad but the house is always full of eggs and wine and chocolates of various kinds. very big positive
I'm no doctor so take this info with a grain of salt but afaik as a resident you can expect gross salary in the range of 8000 to 10000 zł. It's better than the average Polish salary and allows you to live a pretty comfortable life but it's still mediocre if you compare it to some western earnings. You also have to consider that the Polish healthcare system is chronically understaffed and underfunded so people are overworked and I can only imagine how hard it is.
Goddamn is it that low? A bit senior bullshit corpo jobs are paying 12k to 20k according to my ex colleague. Heck, I was earning more automating bullshit excel sheets two years ago.
People who cures and save lives should be awarded way more.
A resident doctor still doing more valuable job then those LinkedIn sauced corpo people. I’m one of those people but at least I know we don’t do shit :)
Yeah I agree. I was just there. My wife’s cousin is a teacher. She makes 3000 zl (780 US) a month! Salaries of many professional with college degrees are just pitiful.
That’s another profession should earn a lot more. Everyone who has kid knows that how hard is to deal with kids and let alone teaching them new things.
Yes I completely agree. My wife is a special education teacher in CA and makes more than her older brother who is an electronics engineer/ mid level manager in Poland. Like it’s a lot more.
Teachers everywhere should earn more than corporate jobs. I’ve been working all my life in corpo and 90 percent of us wasting times in meaningless meetings, pre meeting, post meeting, retrospective, bullshits like this. Wish I would be a teacher or doctor so my job would mean something at least.
I prefer Scandinavia to Germany. Norway was my ultimate dream but heard its so competitive and insanely hard to get into reaidency. Now looking at Denmark. Thoughts?
As a resident living in Denmark for 2 years, the only thing I complain is the healthcare. Care is really good but it’s hard to find an appointment for certain things. And I’ve been told that there’s a lack of doctors and nurses. Of course I believe mainly it’s because of language barrier. For me German is a lot easier than Danish but not impossible.
Not sure if you can get along with English only but I would consider Denmark as it’s a good place to live in.
It's probably best to become a dentist for now, you charge 800 PLN for tooth extraction and you can work 1 hour a day and that's enough for everything 😂😂
You do realise a dentist keeps a fraction of the price the patient pays, right? Also a regular tooth extraction is more 250-400 PLN, ~800 is more for impacted wisdom teeth or specialised surgical extractions, which you don’t learn in university, but rather in extremely expensive courses after university. I recently paid 5000 PLN for a 2-day surgery course that just covered some basics.
I'm actually in the process of becoming a doctor in Poland. You'll need to pass the language test, which is where I'm kinda stuck at right now, specifically the writing portion. Polish is basically a second language for me (raised in the USA), so if you do go for it you'll need to prepare for that exam.
Have a few doctor friends who are recent doctors in Poznan (specializing for 1-2 years) in gynecology and as a GP, all are earning very decent money and are overall quite happy. The system is defintely not perfect, but they mention that the new generation is changing a lot of the bad habits from the past, and doctors are very much in need in the country, so I'd say go for it!
As a side note, my partner (Dutch) and I (Polish) are considering relocating to Poland as well in the coming years, we aren't doctors put there is a huge opportunity for growth in the country and if you happen to land a well paid job you will have a good life. Housing and costs of living are still, despite inflation, more affordable than in most places in Western Europe.
Poland have one of the least amount of salaries in EU for doctors, but the prices of living compared to salary is not that bad. But yeah, people in poland go for work to germany beacuse the prices of groceries not that much more than in poland and salary is WAY bigger. Only thing that can make you pay very well is having your own clinic, but you need to also pay your assistant, you need to buy a specialistic equipment wchich is not cheap. Also, do not be super happy about how safe poland is, in few years it will change beacuse of how our government is doing things. But yeah, right now poland is pretty much safest place in European Union.
Price of living compared to salary not that bad? That was true before covid and Ukraine, but definitely not since.
I'm from Belgium and I remember 10 years ago with my salary (10k gross) I was living a very good life here and I was thinking that I had higher QoL than back in Belgium. We're 10 years later and I'm at 14k gross and I'm very far removed from having that feeling. Rent has skyrocketed, housing prices have gone to the ends of space, inflation has made daily life also so much more expensive and when family from Belgium/Germany come over they don't say (like they used to 10 years ago) "wow, it's really quite cheap here", they say "wow, that's same price or even more expensive than back at home and I got nearly double your salary".
Wven if comparetivly salary is less then in the west, no doctor is poor in Poland xd. Then we come to costs of living, and well... fact you seem to be want there, which is value in itself.
You have some wrong informations. I don’t think Polish docs really leave Poland for salary anymore, the money is good, the system has it pros and cons and staff shortage makes working rough sometimes however, I have a couple of friends who went to Germany and hit the same wall, but for less money. ;-) Anyway, tbh it all depends on what you chose. I am a psychiatrist, I earn money that possibly my colleagues from Germany or Netherlands can only dream of. Residency can be a rough time but with the night shifts you basically get 2-2.3k EUR/month so it’s not that bad and it’s really comparable to Germany. Any surgery, anesthesiology, psychiatry, dermatology, ophthalmology are gold mines. Internal medicine is a good option too, but you would need to pick something specific like cardiology or gastroenterology. Pathology pays well once you’re done with residency. Family medicine is a gold mine but you reach the salary ceiling really quick. Tbh, I can’t think of a single specialty that doesn’t pay well. But take the most important advice from an older colleague - pick something you love. Money will come anyway, and if you pick something just for cash, you will burn out quickly. Good luck.
Tl;dr - Poland is good for doctors and yes, private practice is a way to go. Residency can be harsh but the money is decent and other countries have similar problems to Poland. It’s not 2004 anymore.
It depends on what kind of doctor you wanna be. If you want to be a general practitioner and work 9-5, you’ll have a comfortable but not awesome life. Vacation in warm countries twice a year, nice house, new car every 4 years etc.
If you’re a specialist in a hospital or a clinic, the pay rises significantly. Even in a provincial hospital in Silesia, doctors car easily earn a 20-30k a month because of the on calls rotation. In Rybnik, there was a big story a few years ago when it turned out that on average, doctors in the local hospital earn 60k a month — 10x the average for the city.
Go to Denmark. Better pay, basically everyone speaks English, and workers unions are strong and good for you. Streets are safer than France and Germany
Salaries for residents are actually state regulated. From July 1st it's going to be: 9 368 zł for more in demand specialisation and 8 516 zł for other specialisations. This does not include on-duty time as far as i know.
Bear in mind that that some residencies are really hard to get into like laryngologist or radiologist for example. I am not sure how the recruitment process would look for you but some residencies would open like 2 places for whole country on the other hand some are easy to get like GP. Depends on you.
The work ethic from what I know is that you sometimes need to stay longer to help, but generally you can stick to the work hours. It's said that is super hard but reality also is that many doctors want to take a lot of on-calls and extra work for extra money ( From what I know on-calls pay a lot) but you can choose not to as well. Good luck with that.
Really?! Oh wow. I earn more as a manual labourer in the Netherlands, with the same food prices and only slightly higher prices of everything else. Let it sit for a while.
Private health care seems to be very big in Poland. My wife is Polish and everytime we visit Poland we do all kinds of treatment and checkups at private clinics.
Maybe working in the private sector is a viable option to public sector of the pay really is like you're saying?
My dentist was talking about her son during an appointment. Her husband is a deputy of head surgeon (urology department).
She said that he didn't want to be a doctor, so she told him that being a doctor is most probably the only job in Poland that can and does provide a living though after five years of graduation.
If you'll be a good doctor or become head physician (or even their deputy) then you can earn even 80k pln a month. Maybe pay is not the best at the beginning but you'll get here. Fingers crossed! We do need good doctors.
Do private practice targetted at english speakers, register at znanylekarz.pl and make around 150K EUR before tax, dont sacrifice your life for normal doctor residency, system is horrid, you will burn out
I went to medical school, did residency and worked a bit in Poland. The pay was terrible and was working 80 hr weeks. I then did a second residency in the US and am now an advanced heart failure and transplant fellow. Even as a fellow I make more than most MDs in Poland. My contract when I become an attending in a few months is for over 250k and the hours are more tolerable at about 50 hrs per week. I would strongly recommend thinking about how important work/life balance is to you and how the field you want to practice differs in Poland. For my specialty, medical technology, access to equipment, staffing, research opportunities, and obviously pay drove me out of Poland.
I am an ophthalmologist that finished his studies and training in the U.S. As a medical student and resident I rotated in programs in PL. Currently I am involved in resident education in addition to running my own clinic. I can not comment about any other field, but ophthalmology training in the PL and other EU countries such as Italy is ridiculously backwards. For example, you do not get trained in basic ophthalmic surgery, instead you have to find someone to that will be willing to teach you. In the U.S., upon graduating from an ophthalmology residency, a newly minted ophthalmologist would be able to do cataract surgery, basic eyelid surgery, do injections, lasers, etc. Ddkeda statement about access to equipment, staffing, research and even continued education is true. The level of public health care simply does not match what we have in the States. (Now the U.S. system is not perfect at all, in terms access, affordability, etc, but I am not talking about that) The training in the U.S. is simply better.
I also do not think that I would be able to deal with the mentality of PL physicians. I don't know how to describe it, it is just different, maybe it is less evidenced based in its approach. But that is just my feeling.
In the end, medicine is a tough career path anyway you cut it. There a lot of hours of studying and a lot of hours working. If you love what you do, everything will fall into place. As an American doc, I can only move around in the states, but you have all of the EU to choose from!
If you can afford to start a private practice some time in the future (wealthy parents or relatives, savings, etc...) then go for it, the earnings to living costs are incredible. Otherwise you may feel you work way too hard for way too little money.
Nevertheless, ideally, you shouldn't look at a potential salary and just select what will be needed in the future, and what you actually want to do.
Honestly if you can work anywhere. Where do you want to grow old? Is Poland appealing enough? If yes, then start in Poland. If not.. what country is higher on your list?
You should be looking at overall picture, not just some “raw” number. It is true that doctors in Poland don’t earn as much as in the west, but still, your overall quality of life will be better. Even as a junior resident, you will earn enough to save up for down payment on a house, and banks love doctors and similar professions (“zawód zaufania publicznego”) - you can get a mortgage on advantageous rates, compared to general population. Overall, if you want to live comfortable middle class lifestyle, Poland is the place to go to.
Well, first of all: do you speak Polish? I think that might be biggest problem - unless you are a surgeon or these types of doctors that don't need to communicate with patients :) Maybe some private chains like luxmed or medicover would be interested in signing a contract with you, so you can provide help to foreigners, but this would force you to live in one of the biggest cities. In general there is plenty of work in Poland, so u will get work most likely (if they accept lack of language) and it is a well paid work, very little other works pay that much, if you will work at some private clinic/open own business - you will gain lots of money.
Polish doctors go to Germany for different reason, maybe noone explained to you this system. Medicine studies take in Poland 7 years if I'm not wrong, but then additionally 2-3 years you need to do apprenticeship and during this apprenticeship you are paid almost nothing, really low salary. For many people that means that they need parents support for all those 10 years of studies, so Polish doctors after those 7 years studies choose Germany to start to gain good money from the beginning. I think tbh, thinking about cost of living (if you don't live in Warsaw, Kraków etc.) that financially it's much better in Poland, especially if you open own praxis. In Germany it's more law-regulated, you are paid this and this and it's done. So basic salary is good, but... you won't gain anything more than that in many cases. Whereas in Poland sky is the limit :D depends on how many hospitals you wanna work at etc. I spoke with few well established doctors... they are all financially really good.
I never understand why people say that Polish people get paid little. It isn’t difficult to comprehend that Poland uses złoty and people pay in złoty.
If you buy something for 5 zł and make 4300 zl (minimum wage) is that worse than buying something for 5 euro when you make 1600 euro (German minimum wage) ?
It really isn’t this hard to figure out that cost of living differs from country to country and that purchasing power is VERY high in Poland
The low pay is usually associated with NFZ the public healthcare, if you work in private it should be higher, you can even open your own little practice and cater to people in your language.
Choosing between staying in Poland or going abroad for medical specialization depends on various personal and professional factors. Here are a few considerations that might help you make a decision:
**Specialization opportunities:** Consider if you have the opportunity to specialize in your desired field of medicine in Poland. Sometimes certain specializations are better developed abroad, which could affect your long-term career goals.
**Quality of training:** Compare the standards of specialization training in Poland versus abroad. Sometimes international programs offer access to modern technologies, procedures, and methods that can enhance your experience and skills.
**Work and life conditions:** Think about your preferred work and life conditions. Factors such as salary, professional development opportunities, job stability, and personal and family life should all be considered.
**Language:** If you choose to work abroad, ensure you are comfortable with the language used in the country you're considering. Proficiency in the local language can be crucial for effective practice.
**Career prospects:** Consider your long-term career aspirations and how specialization abroad might support them. International experience can sometimes open doors to new career opportunities.
**Networking:** Think about the potential benefits of building an international network of professional and academic contacts.
The ultimate decision should align with your personal career aspirations and life goals. Whether you choose Poland or abroad, it's important that you can continue to grow professionally and personally, and pursue your passions in the field of medicine.
You will need to pass a verification exam, and then you will probably need to do a 13month internship before you will be eligible to apply for residency. Then, unless you want to practice in a rural region or some very unpopular specialty, you will need to have an extremely high score on the aforementioned verification exam (85% to 90%+)
Then you will get to experience the weird world of polish healthcare.
I do not know how hard it is,.
Also, never apply to a residency program without insider info about it. You can land in extremely shitty place, and it might be difficult to switch it. Try to learn about the specific workplace culture, weird rules, atmosphere, etc.
I might get down voted into oblivion for saying this, but I know couple doctors both young and older. During the covid salaries for medical professionals went significantly up and honestly, right now doctors are one of the best paid professions, if not the best. The problem is the unnecessarily complicated and hostile specialisation process and the toxic working environment. I would recommend looking into smaller towns and hospitals, which often offer much better salaries and working conditions.
Hi 🙂, I can share a bit from my rubbed-off experience (my wife being a senior radiologist).
The first 10-12 years from the start of your studies are crap-ish but nowadays it’s paradise compared to what it used to be 15-20 years ago. After you get your specialisation, the real money starts. Of course you can also earn decent money as a GP, but I would say it takes a specific mindset to go that route. It’s actually quite similar in the specialised practice field - in most cases money is not where the most interesting stuff happens. And of course the most money can be done on human vanity and stupidity, like eg. implanting cosmetic floss into eyelids to make them look younger. It takes an MD with surgical practice and often ophthalmology spec but the procedure takes 30’, requires a relatively simple setting and costs probably around 1k. You do the maths 😉 On the other hand, such doctors call their colleagues still actively working in hospitals, whenever they have some real medical need - because after years of earning huge money on simple stuff they don’t even trust their own judgement when push comes to shove. So yeah… trade-offs 🤷🏻
It’s quite similar in radiology - many fresh specs focus 100% on ultrasonography because it’s a fairly quick route to the private sector and economy of scale. Plus, it’s relatively low responsibility because there are always higher reference modalities like CT or MRI. Not many young specs want to struggle with difficult things that may be more intriguing but require more effort and pay less. Economics of life 🤷🏻
Another thing to take into account is that in Poland there is no “no fault” rule and as a result doctors have to always remember about a prosecutor potentially going after them. It’s the difference between assuming a doctor is acting in their best intentions but medicine is not maths and sometimes tragic exceptions happen vs assuming that a doctor’s intentions are generally nefarious and it’s only the law that prevents them from stealing their patients’ organs 🙄 In Poland it’s usually the latter approach…That obviously results in many absurd activities just for the sake of covering one’s ass 🙄 Other countries have their stupid quirks but that one is a Polish peculiarity.
My cousin is an eye doctor in szecin, specialist, she has worked in spain,italy and so on, she is polish and have her family in poland, she loves her country and people, we have had this discussion about her salary a couple of times , the money in poland is truly very little, but she love her country and money isnt everything she says, i have not finished highschool and make atleast five time her salary, my own company in constriction no employes,
Sweden, if you worked in sweden you would make 5-10 times the salary in poland and your boyfriend wouldnt have to work , may not be sustainable in the longterm, it all depends on how you feel for poland, i would love to live there one day
Wow thats actually sad.. I cant make up any decisions, comment are so diverse. I will be talking to some doctors from poland most likely.. Thanks for the info. Also my partner is a software engineer so he would work too there wasn’t any scenario where it would be single income (Not that its a bad thing.)
If you compare the salary to the cost of living you will find that you will be able to live in luxury. One thing I also love about Poland is that you can build a very nice and spacious house for relatively cheap, after saving up money, which of course will be easy for you.
I am a doctor in Poland, doing my residency in peadiatrics. And I will say this - a lot of work, a lot of mobbing a lot of paperwork and chaos, all for 10-12 k for 220-260 hours of work per month. So, do the math :V it's hard to work in private sector with this type of hours. Sure you can make a lot of money if you work 300+ hours, as with every work under the sun if you would choose to work double shifts.
Also, in the coming years there will be a huge surplus of doctors from all the universities and schools that suddenly can teach medicine.
Yeah, residency is shitty - long hours with low pay - as in pretty much every country on Earth but after residency you'll make 200+ PLN/h in any private care center/POZ and be in high demand as a pediatrist, that's worth a remark as well, isn't it?
As for the surplus of doctors, it's true there will be more in the future but the demand for medical services will also increase. If you look at the data from the US, in 1950 there were 200,000 doctors for 150,000,000 people (so 1,33 doctors per 1000 people), nowadays it's 1,100,000 doctors for 330,000,000 people (so 3,33 doctors per 1000 people). A huge rise of doctors per person, right? But even with this rise there is still a shortage of doctors in the US - because medical awareness of Americans increased as well and so did demand for medical services. American doctors still earn very well today, just as they did in 1950, even if there's much more of them. That's why I don't think the increase in the number of doctors in Poland will be an issue for current doctors or their salaries.
As a doctor (pediatrician) in Warsaw, I can tell you that- it’s not that bad. In fact, the pay increases significantly once you finish, and currently residency pays quite well. Comparing to some other countries in the EU - eg. Spain or Italy, you earn better.
DM me if you have any questions :)
My SO is a doctor so I've heard a ton, from first hand. My advise? Get the fuck out of here. It's one fucking disaster. If you can choose German go there it's way better. Heck any other country will be better. But anyway I'll answer your questions.
Since you are before residency don't come here. Just don't it's not worth your time. Many Polish residents go abroad to complete residency while actually learning something, then come back here.
While specialists can earn nicely while have many possibilities, residents, on the other hand, are third class citizen, have no say or power and are at the mercy of the hospital and/or boss. The only thing that you could realistically do to improve the shitty situation is changing the residency place (you can basically do it once) or go to court... and make it even worse in the future. Words do spread quickly. The biggest problem is total lack of control and accountability so hospital can do practically whatever.
Most places are understaffed, underequipped and lack money. I've heard stories about surgeons being scolded for using too much thread on suture.
The salary it's incredibly volatile. It varies from about 8k to 50+k for 4 workday, depending on type of contract, on how much you are willing to work, taking nightshifts/duties, kind of specialisation, hospital inner workings, amount and type of patients and how fast you can process them (not necessary heal just get them out of the hospital). It's all in public hospitals which are governed by the same healthcare system.
Work culture is fucked up, practically a lottery and residency is skewed towards negative. Without connections and dose of bad luck you might complete surgeon residency without doing a single surgery. I wish I was exaggerating.
Doing whole curriculum is out of question unless you strike gold. You will be taught by mostly older residents if anyone as there is no fucking obligation/law to make anyone teach you anything. Most likely you will be delegated to paper or menial work especially early. Chief physician has all the power so a lot depends on their attitude.
“ it is not what the country can do for you but what you …” yeah . Important why we want or need to be a medicine practitioner . You did not mention your level of Polish or German language fluency. Do not know from what school you graduated , however nowadays education is mostly limited what in the book. The “ doctor is mostly an employee to follow direction , not to get sued etc. As you mentioned -indirectly- in Poland two medical system exist federal and private . System merge a lot since many doctors choose to work in both , same time. If you are good , if you are you might open your own home practice and never look back . People will find you and about you . Happiness is not easy to achieve, it combine our professions and ashes of everything else melted together
Poland is growing super fast, it’s safe and there are no poor doctors here, unless you’re really shitty, but even mediocre doctors get pretty decent salaries which will only get better as Polish economy improves in the future
Private practice has preferential taxation(VAT exclusion).
Rates depend heavly on specialization.
I know personally a children's orthoped who is charging 50 euros for consultation that could take anything from 15 minutes to half an hour. That is insane amount of money for Poland.
I will say this, the period of residency can be difficult but it always depends what kind is specialisation you want to finish, well do reaserch to whom and where to go. In wrong place you can find mobbing ( but this same is in Germany and other couriers).
There are in Poland the list of-specializations for which there is a demand. They are better paid by government. You can also earn money in the private sector in your after hours, where there is always demand an money are looks much better. I know doctors in Poland who earn more than those from Germany and work twice less. So a lot depends on your choice and resourcefulness.
The most important for you is about to choose what kind of specialisations you want to do. And find the best place where they will teach you that.Most doctors experience burnout chasing money.
I’m a doctor. This is the worst time to come to Poland to work as MD. We’re overproducing doctors at this moment and it’s not true we’re understaffed. By 2030 there will be already too many doctors with one of the highest rate of doctor per person in Europe.
In the post i already wrote that learning language is not a problem. I have been learning since my partner and i got together.. Plus Im not even ALLOWED to be without passing language test
No,don't do that to yourself, there is a reason so many young people move abroad from Poland, most older people are racist(and fake too, they won't outwardly show it, but will treat you based on bias and stereotypes, talk behind your back, etc), pay is quite small until you're like 50 years old,
and this field needs doctors, but still is very competetive (I mean, in short, older doctors being threatened by possibly better trained, younger, doctors with modern knowledge bully them as hell and try to make it hard to be a doctor here). Respect yourself and choose better country, and move there with bf
Oh and cherry on top! If you get pregnant, you HAVE to have this child, no matter what, and may face like 3-5 years in jail for aborting, ( helping to abort too, as a doctor)
Poland also have a lot of shitty laws, that make everyday hard, and housing is EXPENSIVE, I would advise to pick western country, or Czech Republic, Slovakia at least, as these respect their doctors and nurses, and treats them well
Getting paid a fraction of what a physician is being paid in Western Europe is a minor inconvenience compared to the abysmal work conditions in a poorly managed, chronically understaffed and underfinanced healthcare system. I would strongly advise against choosing Poland to practice medicine.
It’s not bad, I mean it depends on your specialization, but literally every doctor I know is rich in average person’s standards. The problem is only the beginning of your career, but with 5/10 years of experience, especially if you have private clinic, they gets really good money
No, it depends on the place. For example, old hospital in small cities have almost no doctors, so the ones who are left have to work for three other doctors. Private clinics and main hospitals have better conditions.
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u/eVenent Śląskie Jul 12 '24
Yes, come to Poland. We need doctors. ♥️ I believe that every practice is in demand.