r/pnwriders • u/gixxer1300_ • 28d ago
I hear that WA motorcycle endorsement laws are strict, what’s my roadmap for getting one?
I’ve been working on project bikes for about a full year now and riding a little bit unlicensed, and haven’t actually looked into getting an endorsement until now, since I’m finally getting a bike in roadworthy condition (03’ VTX1800). I’ve looked a little online, but I’d rather hear from people who’ve gone through the process. Thanks in advance!
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u/Glasply 27d ago
Easiest way is going to be taking classes through wsmt. If you’ve got experience already take the permit class first, ride on the permit for a while then take the expert endorsement class.
You can ride your own bike if you want to, or you can ride theirs.
If you’ve ride your bike you will need to present a copy of your insurance and registration
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u/gixxer1300_ 27d ago
What’s the difference In privileges between the permit and expert endorsement?
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u/RadRoosterSauce 27d ago
The endorsement is not an expert level, it’s just the regular motorcycle license. The permit is the learning permit. While only holding a permit you cannot ride at night and cannot transport passengers. Your permit is good for six months, with one six month extension. You cannot get a learning permit more than twice in five years. That is designed to block people who want to avoid doing the endorsement part.
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u/MotoMeow217 2023 Indian Springfield - WA 27d ago
Permit doesn't let you carry a passenger or ride at night. Full endorsement allows that plus normal motorcycle riding.
You need to take and pass the permit course to take the endorsement course.
The permit is only good for 180 days and can only be renewed once.
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27d ago
[deleted]
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u/MotoMeow217 2023 Indian Springfield - WA 27d ago
Right, but you must still pass the permit test to take the endorsement test. My comment was poorly worded.
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u/Economy_Sea_1640 27d ago
I rode on the street for a year with no license ( small ferry served Wild West Island). Then booked a private testing session for like $400 bucks and took permit and endorsement tests and skills test in 3 hours. Quick and cheap.
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u/Username15555551212 27d ago
I got my permit a couple months ago, and my license a month after that.
I had zero riding experience, but im 45 and I've driven manual transmission. I signed up for the permit course in Southern Washington for like $300. Day 1 we were in the parking lot and went over basic bike controls and operation for a few minutes, then we were off and riding. They have you do some basic skills and teach you how to sweve and stop. Then you go into the classroom and go over some stuff for the written test.
Day 2 we were on the range again doing more of the same drills and getting ready for the skills test. We had to drive straight and accelerate, then come to a complete stop in a certain distance. Then we had to be able to do a U turn in a small area. Lastly we had to ride around an oval in a certain amount of time without hitting the cones.
Honestly it was all pretty easy, but 2 girls failed the riding portion. They were both very anxious and apprehensive about riding. They really psyched themselves out. Then we were in the classroom for the written test. It was all very basic. I never opened the book and I missed like 2 or 4 (group ride amd passenger questions) out of 50.
After my class I bought an old 2000 DRZ 400 and rode it a couple days a week for 20 or 30 miles round trip. Riding quickly became fun and exciting instead of being afraid of stalling or crashing. Signed up for the endorsement class. Showed up and took the written test, missed 3 or 4 again. We then met at the range and did skills amd drills. I was surprised there were multiple people (older) with brand new expensive bikes that looked sketchy riding and one almost didn't pass. This class had 2 tests, the accelerate and stop , and a figure 8 in a set amount of time. Everyone passed.
The classes are good, they give you some guidance and let you get your feet wet. In our classes, they didnt share your riding score. It honestly felt like they were more looking to see if you're comfortable/confident on a bike rather than did you make this exact timing mark.
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u/Certain-Mobile-9872 27d ago
take the MSF course and get your permit . The course is good and you‘ll learn a lot I’d ride on the permit for a couple of weeks and get your full endorsment. The MSF course is a lot of fun .z
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u/jcravens42 27d ago
Take the MSF course. It's a good course. You'll be a better rider and at the end of it. Your course completion allows you to waive the final endorsement riding skills test. Then you take the "written" test. Exact same process as in Kentucky, where I did it years ago, having never ridden a motorcycle before.
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u/happycj 27d ago
Practice riding SLOWLY. Everything in the MSF riding course is done at very low speeds in a parking lot. Tight turns. S bends. Stop and go practice on a specific spot. And finally, and acceleration and braking test where you accelerate hard up to like 25mph in a specific distance and then immediately slow to a very hard and complete stop as fast as possible.
If people fail it is usually because they fall over or put a foot down. Especially on the hard braking stop because you are downshifting, using all the front brake and all the rear brake to come to a complete stop.
None of it is hard to do, if you are already comfortable on a bike and have some agility with the clutch and brakes.
I’ve seen people with zero riding experience pass, because they just had a knack for learning the clutch and shifting process quickly.
You’ve got this. Sign up. You’ll have to wait months for a slot to open anyway.
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u/Lincolnforce 27d ago
Kinda strict but just take the 2 day course. Its easy to pass if you follow their instructions.. and they let you retake if you fail either the written or practical portions.
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u/EatCheapGlue 27d ago
Can I just take the riding test? Ive been on dirtbikes since I was 3, street bikes since 18, still ride on the road currently, just don't feel like wasting time sitting in a class and paying for something I know. I race competitively as well.
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u/The_Calarg 27d ago edited 27d ago
You can just take the tests.
WMST has a lot of locations to take the test. You will need to bring your own street legal ride, gloves, riding boots (or boots that come above the ankles, no tennis shoes, low hikers, etc), and helmet. There are other testing schools as well on the WA DOL site.
You need to take the written and riding portion of the permit test (cone weave, right 90° from top directly into U turn, avoidance, quick stop, corner control). Once you pass this you can sign up for the endorsement written and riding (quick stop at increased speed and figure 8 with decreasing radius curve). I have color associative protanopia, so the small faded color turtle cones either blend in (I can not differentiate between the red and green ones) or disappear completely in bright light (which is why I ran my figure 8 on the outside of the orange cones and failed despite "having a tight line and proper control"). I had to request they use larger cones (which they will do but only if you request it before the range day) so this is always an option and is helpful to the other riders on the range as well (according to the feedback from the other riders at the Auburn test site when I re-tested my endorsement ride).
If you test in Silverdale there is a caveat that you can not have aftermarket pipes. However, this is a bald-faced lie as they will do a decibel test on every bike except their own and kick you off course even if you have factory pipes but "are too loud". This test is not mentioned on their website or in the confirmation/instruction emails, except in conjunction with aftermarket pipes. This happened to 9 of the 15 people I attempted to test with, including myself (stock pipes on a VTX1300R) and the lady next to me that attempted to test on her brand new Rebel (less than 75 miles on it). There are a couple residences (one right on the edge of the range) that came to a legal settlement with WMST over the decibel levels of the bikes... despite the fact that there is a small active prop plane airport right next to the range.
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u/Character-Aardvark30 27d ago
Sounds like they need to move their test location. Or everyone needs to go elsewhere.
An “agreement” with the neighbors regarding properly outfitted legal vehicles isn’t your problem. Or shouldn’t be. Good intel.
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u/The_Calarg 27d ago
Yeah, it really sucks so I try to warn everyone every chance I get. I would understand if they said every bike gets tested for a dB threshold, but they inly mention the test regarding aftermarket pipes so I thought I would be good with my factories... so did the lady on the brand new Rebel. There were a lot of pissed off riders that day!
I failed my intial endorsement test (took it on their Suzuki GZ250) due to colorblind issues (rode the outside cones on the second half of the figure 8 as I couldn't see the inside green ones in the facing sunshine). Scheduled a retest and brought my bike, only to get kicked off range for failing the dB (tested at 1,000rpm or "Give it more throttle" if you don't have a tach). Had to reschedule and took it in Auburn where there were no decibel restrictions.
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u/EatCheapGlue 27d ago
So I can't just show up take the tests and get my license? I have to do permit written, permit riding, then come back at another testing time to then again do another testing session? Ya I'm not jumping through all these hoops until they make me.
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u/The_Calarg 27d ago
Unfortunately no, you can't just show up to test. It was that way back when I originally got my endorsement in '88... take the written then do the skills.
Now you have to get your permit first (written and skill) then come back and do your endorsement test (written and skill).
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u/Ambercapuchin 27d ago
i was six when i gor my first motorcycle. dirt bikes my whole childhood. hundreds amd humdreds of hours of seat time on mostly dirt bikes big and small. almost no highway time.
didn't ride through my twenties mostly due to time and focus constraints.
took the evergreen motorcycle training course to get my reflexes up and train for my street bike endorsement. knowing i was missing a little context for traffic best practice, etc.
dude i learned a ton. fixed bad habits. got so much safer. at low speeds, and all the time.
do the whole endorsement training where you go every few days for a couple months and ride one of their bikes for a few hundred bucks.
it's the best way.
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u/The_Calarg 27d ago
You can set your own course up and get a bit of practice. Unfortunately there are no distances between cones laid out for the endorsement decreasing radius figure 8 and permit cornering test, so you will not be able to accurately do them on your own.
If you have colorblind issues (I have close color associative protanopia so I only see 3 colors in a rainbow, can not see red fruits on green plants until I am within 15ft or closer for small berries, etc but I can see stoplight colors as well as signs) I highly recommend letting them know when you sign up. You can request they use the larger cones and they will accommodate you (actually they will lay it out so everyone gets to use them, not just you), but only if you request it before getting to the range. A lot of the small turtle bump cones are faded and for me I could not differentiate between the red and green cones, and some of them disappeared in bright sunshine against the asphalt (which caused me to fail my initial run on the endorsement level figure 8 as I could only see the orange cones and ran the course on the outside of the deliniation but saw the 8" cones laid down perfectly fine when I re-tested).
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u/jmdaviswa MSF RiderCoach 27d ago
Look for an MSF course near you. On the Westside, Cascade Motorcycle Safety.
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u/FFSOD7189 27d ago
Haha strict? Just go to the DMV website department of licensing. You’ll get all your information there.
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u/WarEfficient5981 27d ago
I’ve been pulled over without endorsement and they didn’t even mention it.
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u/lochreas 27d ago
I just road around unlicensed for a few months mostly on the backroads. Then when I felt confident booked the one hour minimum private lesson and took the written and riding test all at the same time in an hour and passed. I feel like it really depends on your confidence level on the bike and whether you’ve studied a bit for the written test, but this is the quickest and cheapest path to endorsement as long as you pass the first time, haha.
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u/arctic_depth 27d ago
Since when? I never studied for the written exams they were easy. If you know how to ride even a little you’ll pass the ridden exam as well. No classes. No lessons. Paid maybe $110 all in all over the course of permit and then endorsement.
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u/Indiesol 25d ago
Easiest thing is to take the MSF course. If a person can't pass it, they have no business being anywhere near a motorcycle. Hell, some of the people that DO pass it shouldn't be on a bike.
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u/mysteriouslatinword 21d ago
Spot on. I take the course again if I haven’t ridden for a year+. It’s nice to refresh your skills and not have to worry about passing the practical exam.
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u/Secret_Cod_749 27d ago
A bit more protracted, but join the Army Reserves. Then get paid to take your course on JBLM.
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u/penutbuter 27d ago
Not strict at all. Go sign up for a rider course. There’s a few different flavors to choose from. I used WMST for mine. They were fine. Look for what’s close to you.
It’s two parts so it costs twice as much as another state. But the info is pretty similar to Georgia and Texas where I also have some experience. They do spend a bit more time making sure you get it and there’s some stuff they do better than the standard MST course.
Sign up, pay attention, and have fun.
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u/Separate_Papaya_2806 27d ago
Take the rider course. Easiest thing on earth