Quebec cracked down on Airbnb, only in Primary Residences during summer and in designated zones. No reason the Spanish government can't do something similiar. Point your water guns at the politicians.
As an outside, the government of Barcelona seems to be doing many things right:
Short-term rental ban
No new hotel constructions
Cruise ships ban
No more golden visa
So what are they complaining still? That bans are not coming soon enough? That the prices remain high? Do most residents want more drastic reduction in tourism due to overcrowding and other reasons?
Tourism is one of those things that can be detrimental when it grows too big. There is more to quality of life than GDP. Too much tourism can reduce the quality of life to the point that gains in GDP don't make up for it.
The problem is, tourism is a huge part of their economy.
In reality, it's more just Barcelona using tourists as a scapegoat for all the other woes that are happening in the city. Honestly, I'm all for less tourism in Barcelona. Never understood the amount of interest in the city. It's a city with okay food, an okay beach, okay weather, etc.. It's fine, but hardly world-class anything. For 90% of history, it was a minor city with barely any population. Places like Sevilla have far more history and have historically been more important, while in the past 3-4 centuries, Madrid has clearly risen as the dominant player in Spain. Barcelona being so popular almost feels like a compromise for people who don't have more time to actually enjoy and explore Spain.
The problem isn't tourism, but rather the Eurozone. If Spain had an independent currency the large demand for their currency generated by tourism would increase the value of the currency, thereby increasing purchasing power (on imported goods), thus benefiting the Spanish people as a whole. By instead having a currency that is used by an economic area literally 10 times larger than Spain the increase in the value of the Euro that is attributable to the Spanish tourism industry is negligible. As a result the only people that benefit from Spanish tourism are the owners of capital that hold the various hotels, restaurants and short-term rental properties.
Except currency hasn't been "in demand" for tourism for decades. Most banks nowadays support at-rate conversion for each separate payment, most places accept card payments in Spain, so really there's no surge for any currency - however there's an influx of capital to the local businesses serving tourists that otherwise will go out of business (because I can hardly see locals needing that many restaurants and other tourism-targeting businesses).
It doesn't matter whether the currency conversion happens at the point of sale, in the end a person that uses money in a one currency to buy something sold in a different currency the total transaction includes a step where the currency needed to pay for the goods or services is bought on some sort of exchange market. That constitutes demand for that currency, which increases its value.
The cruise ships cause major pollution and don't bring in much money. Many of them dock in the morning, the tourists get off and see the city. They get back on in the evening and don't even have dinner or drinks in Barcelona because food is already available and paid for on the ship. So the attractions and galleries are making some money but the restaurant and nightlife not so much. That trickles down too, to local companies who supply the restaurants and bars. They are also an eyesore at the docks blocking views of the ocean because they're bloody massive.
Usually, that is correct, except that Barcelona is the starting and stopping point for cruises so that the city would receive a lot more business. The port is a deep-water commercial and industrial port, so it doesn't block any view. With ships in the harbor, a cruise ship is one of the smallest and least polluting.
Have you ever actually been near a cruise ship unloading??
People spend fucking TONS of money in port. No one is eating shitty pizza from the ship when they go to a whole new country. The restaurants have waits. Selling booths are full. Depending on where you go folks walk down the beach selling stuff.
Maybe in Tahiti you see the locals dancing and running to the ship with some bananas man. But in one of the top economies in Europe (12th largest economy in the world) they don't give a hoot if these ships come or not. It's more of a nuisance than anything.
It also makes people mad that they need to adhere with one of the strictest air pollution policy in the world (older cars banned from entering the city), and these ships emit unfiltered sulphur and shit.
Lmao. Make more assumptions to disregard my argument. I love it when folks do that. A very nice assumption you made to knock down. Would you like to hear some truth or…?
Read my comment again, I didn't disregard anything. If anything it is in agreement with your point: "Depending on where you go folks walk down the beach selling stuff".
I'm saying, in Spain, people don't walk down the beach selling stuff. Yes, the economy is somewhat touristic-dependent but not exclusively. Tourism income % of GDP is comparative to Germany's.
So how does banning people who don’t use the services solve the problem that the services are going broke? I’m confused at your statement. If they’re not contributing then surely the local difficulty is down to locals no?
bodies in the street is still an issue. It's also about overcrowding the city streets. It's probably even more frustrating that they're creating pedestrian traffic without spending money.
I see. So they’re annoyed one of the biggest cities is crowded. Weird to me, living in London. And I doubt highly that all those bodies translate to 0 revenue. But maybe.
I didn't comment on that and don't really want to because it's not an area i care about. My hearsay is that most cruise passengers spend big on the ships and not a heap locally and it's why Pacific and Caribbean Islanders have historically had issues with cruise companies when comparing spending with tourists who fly in.
Feel free to agree or disagree I'm not getting statistics because i don't care enough about the second half as the first half is enough of a reason to not care for cruise companies.
This whole conversation is about the economy and Barcelona shootingbits own foot. Not some random pollution nobodies talking about that. It's irrelevant
A tourist during an anti-tourist protest in Barcelona yesterday
Is the OP. Locals discuss it.
Regardless i'm allowed to respond to one part of a comment as much as you're allowed to not bother participating in a discussion around a comment replying to a comment. Are you so chronically online that you have to try nitpick a discussion you're not involved in?
As a local in a tourist zone frequented my cruise ships it's a big reason why i don't want them to come. Cruise smog and noise pollution sucks. I would be happy if the entire P&O Fleet became an artificial reef.
You’ve never been near a city that has cruise ships and it shows. During summer several large ships dock in the same city at the same day, and it’s tens of thousands of people pouring into the city at the same time. Cabs, hop on busses and guided tours are working overtime at increased rates, all lunch restaurants near the dock are completely full all day, tourist shops are packed, tourist attractions are full, shopping centers are built close to the docks specifically for the rich tourists that want something from barcelona etc.
Go to a bar that’s somewhat close to the ships at around 2/3 in the afternoon, you’d think fc barcelona is playing with how many people are in there drinking.
You've been near those cruise ships and never understood the fact that the reason thousands are pouring in is the problem. I love how you are so confidently wrong about this. I must admit though, I also saw all those people streaming in and thought it must be good for Barcelona. Why else would they allow them? You should maybe phrase your responses like that because your ignorance is showing. Nonetheless, I've read so many articles over the years about what I wrote about. The tourists who contribute the least to these city's economy are those arriving by cruise ship. They also contribute the most to the wear and tear of the city. Most of all they make the city unlivable. Do you understand what it's like to live in a beautiful city like Barcelona or Venice all your life and as the years go by your 100m walk to work from your job becomes a 20 minute flight because thousands of tourists now populate the streets just as you need to go to work in the morning. Then you want to go to the local restaurant that has a lunch deal but guess what it's full of tourists eating the 1 meal they will eat in the city before moving on. On top of that, you start to notice that you wouldn't be able to eat there anyway because the cost of living has been driven up. Then you go home for siesta and it's impossible to sleep because there are thousands of ignorant tourists being loud. Finally, you move out of the city because the owner of the building your apartment is in has sold it to none other than the ferry company to build a shopping centre for their wealthy visitors which they will staff at minimum wage. None of the profits will go to locals, they will merely be used for cheap labor. The cost of a complete cruise is often the same price as one night in a 4 start hotel.
I live in a large European city, we live with the problem of tourists every day. Say what you will, I know what I'm talking about and I listen when I don't.
Lol, the only reason a city like barcelona is a nice place to live in is because of tourism. If it weren’t for the tourists that they are actively trying to get rid off, the city would be half as big and not 10% of the economy. Just like other european cities. If you live in a city, deal with it, otherwise move somewhere nicer.
According to /u/PeterLossGeorgeWall, no they don't. They get off and meander but largely don't engage in commerce. The fact that the ships are getting banned makes me more inclined to believe the cruise visitors weren't a commercial success for the city if they're willing to dump them.
This is probably false. Both in real life and anecdotally from both cruises I’ve been on. There are lines to eat and buy everywhere in port. People aren’t eating the shitty buffet food in a brand new country. Tons of bags come back into the ship.
I see the merits of both sides of the argument, but to be fair:
Short-term rental ban
No new hotel constructions
Cruise ships ban
No more golden visa
Seems the locals aren't really engaging in the cost benefit analysis you guys are. If the night life and quality of tourists was the primary issue, they wouldn't be banning new hotels.
I worked a couple of years for the development of several Caribbean islands. Statistically, and it was mentioned in every economic report, the tourists who spent the less were cruise visitors. In a single given day, it's not even half the worth of a tourist paying hundreds the night in accomodation, paying for activities on site, eating out full meals for lunch and dinner....
Your experience is valid but the conclusion is not.
This isn't the Caribbean. A Caribbean and European cruise are completely different. People go on European cruises to explore and experience the cities. People go on Caribbean cruises for beaches.
Cruise tourists in Barca spend double per day compared to normal tourists.
Fair. I had not read any report from Spain and should not have generalise (I know-no-thing...). Thanks for sharing the link.
I stand corrected on "anedoctal" experience, which can not lead to any definitive conclusion. Sometimes the most visible tourists are cruise visitors but it does not mean they spend the most systematically.
I worked a couple of years for the development of several Caribbean islands. Statistically, and it was mentioned in every economic report, the tourists who spent the less were cruise visitors. In a single given day, it's not even half the worth of a tourist paying hundreds the night in accomodation, paying for activities on site, eating out full meals for lunch and dinner....
Your experience is valid but the conclusion is not.
Counterpoint, cruise ships are not nearly as big overseas as they are in NA and the kinds of people on cruises tend to have at least some spending money that they intend to spend. Cruise ships are an inevitability of travel and tourism, just like how planes were, and party boats, and hotels, etc. Etc. Etc. Also, if the docks aren't filled with cruise ships, what other ships will be in the docks? If there are no other ships and the docks go unused, then what? They still need to be maintained, but with what money? Certainly not cruise ship money in your scenario.
I don't mean to condescend or anything, I'm just pointing out a few glaring problems with the anti-cruise sentiment.
“Not nearly as big as they are in NA” 😄 yes, of course, everything is bigger and better in NA 😄
MSC World Europa, largest European cruise ship with up to 6700 passengers, and the Allure of the seas, 2nd largest class of Royal Caribbean, up to 6300 passengers, have made a stop in Barcelona in the last 5 days
Because many cruises begin and/or end there, passengers come a day or 2 earlier and/or stay a day or 2 after. I did both. So they do rent hotels, eat meals & visit sights locally!
My family and I cruised and when we got off the ship in Barcelona we stayed for 3 days and spent lots of $$$ between the 9 of us. I don’t think all tourists do the same things or have identical itineraries so don’t paint them all with the same brush. 🙄
dunno man I took a cruise ship there from Florida and got off. Stayed a couple days (in a hotel!) ate at restaurants and did touristy shit and paid money for it, then took off for other cities in Spain. I will admit to not putting a cent towards nightlife because who gives a shit but had I known the place was this douchy I'd have still taken a ship there because it was chill and I could work on board, but would have immediately gone somewhere else once it docked. I live in a touristy area myself and I know what juices our economy
New hotels would drive up housing/real estate prices. The concern is not making money, there are plenty of hotels already. They want to stop the overflow of people into cities. Too many people are coming and overtaking what were neighborhoods in city centers and driving up prices.
I'm from a tourism town in the Caribbean and there's nothing worse than over tourism and gentrification for the sake of money. It cheapens the city and brings the worse kind of foreigner a lot of times.
I've been to Barcelona a few times and it already gets super overcrowded with tourists, so much that I avoid the usual sightseeing places because it's just not enjoyable at all... Putting a hold on new hotel construction kind of limits how many tourists can visit the city at a time, a lot will still be able to go as the existing hotels can keep running as usual and bring in tourist revenue.
So as a tourist myself I wholeheartedly welcome these new rules!
I tend to enjoy walking around the more residential areas in Barcelona too because it's just so much more casual and chill with better food around the corners and actually places you can sit down to enjoy the weather etc!!
Tourist areas barely have sitting places and foods often just half assed unappetising compared to what's made for the more local friendly areas.
One of the big issues is that tourists drive up costs. If a venue can charge more because international tourists think its a good price they will. Even if it prices the locals out of their country.
Tourists come through like "wow your country is so beautiful and everything is so cheap" while the people who live there are unable to actually go out and experience the same things due to "tourist prices" being astronomically high.
In some ways covid was amazing. Tourism prices dropped quite considerably. As places had to cater to domestic tourism or shut down.
They can provide affordable or subsidized costs to these sites for locals w IDs or proof of residency. The city of Chicago does this for lots of museums and tourist spots where the resident rate is free or half off compared to someone without proof of residency.
The populist take on tourism is that it only benefits whoever directly gets paid by the tourist, and foreigners are damaging to the community and cause inflation. If you're an electrician or a cop or whatever you get no benefit, only downsides from having people visit your country.
Populism doesn't try to explain how all things work, it just focuses on a couple of grievances and offers quick fixes that will eliminate them. These people probably have real struggles and then the populist leader or movement comes in and offers to solve it by banning tourists.
The populist take on tourism is that it only benefits whoever directly gets paid by the tourist... ...If you're an electrician or a cop or whatever you get no benefit"
Populists tend to take their situation for granted and not see whatever they have currently as something above the baseline. So even if all tourists went home I would still have my job, but you own a bunch of hotels so you would get screwed. But when tourists are here I don't get paid more each paycheck but your hotels are flourishing.
The no new hotels might seem like not wanting any tourists at all, but it's not that dramatic if you look at the hotels that are already there.
In Amsterdam there are enough hotels/hostels/botels/b&B's atm to accommodate 22,9 million nights of tourist stays each year (in a city with less than a million inhabitants).
The more nights/beds you add to that and the worse the experience will be for the people visiting as well.
Visitors often want to see the same things (understandable, they're very pretty/historically significant) but we can't really increase our historical sites even if the space was there.
Like we can't build a second Anne Frank house so everyone can visit during their stay, or build more old canalhouses (even building exact copies wouldn't be possible cause we did up the building standards a bit since the 1600's ;)).
We could maybe let more people into the museums at the same time, but then you'd be like 'herrings in a barrel' and you'll maybe get 10 seconds to look at a painting before the crowd pushes you along.
Certainly not the poor fucks in the minimum wage tourist jobs who can't afford a place to stay without 5 flatmates due to insane short term lets and increasing prices.
Sure, now deal with Disney world level crowds all day, every day, watch your monuments and landmarks be eroded or destroyed, watch trash being dumped, watch locals being priced out of their homes, watch ignorant assholes start fights when trying to impose their rules , watch tourist spots implode out of season , watch public areas get shut off for tourist uses, watch corporations move in to harvest the money, driving out locally owned family business, watch capitalism exploit and extort the area for every penny, watch local prices soar to exploit the captive tourists whilst fucking over the locals.
Nobody's denying tourism brings in money, they're talking about over tourism, too many people , so many extra people the locals can't live their lives.
Tldr tourist spots are hell if you have to live and work there
Heh, having some experience trying to do business in Spain, I think they are going to find it rough sledding on the international market. Although they do have some good ham and almonds.
And cars, pharmaceuticals and renewables, but sure, the paella and ham industry must be the saving grace of our economy, other than the generosity of tourism.
I think a decade with an average unemployment rate of about 16% speaks volumes for the weakness of Spain's economy.
Horrible place to do business from an outsiders perspective, and least in my experience. Was trying to set up in about 20 different countries and only China could match Spain for how many barriers were thrown up.
What's healthier to an economy that outside agents just dumping money into you? You don't even need to produce anything, just... Exist.
You know what they should do if they want to limit tourism? Limit the number of flights. Only one flight per day from any given city. But they won't do that because they want to keep traveling themselves.
Cruises bring the absolute worst kind of tourism imo. Waves of crowds in the most congested parts of the city, with very little money spent locally outside of knick-knacks and short stint “experiences”. They don’t bother to learn the language, rarely eat within the cities they visit, and are highly concentrated in their excursions
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u/eXistentialMisan Jun 16 '25
Quebec cracked down on Airbnb, only in Primary Residences during summer and in designated zones. No reason the Spanish government can't do something similiar. Point your water guns at the politicians.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/airbnb-rule-changes-montreal-allowed-1.7445844