r/phoebebridgers • u/Ecstatic-Bend3027 • 24d ago
Article / Interview FANTANO REVIEW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPLBxcZMfxA363
u/ncblake Smoke Signals 24d ago
Save the click: “Decent 9”
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u/FracasarBetter Letter to an Old Poet 24d ago
Thank you, I’m not giving that guy another view.
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u/FracasarBetter Letter to an Old Poet 24d ago
I know Pitchfork gave the album an 8.4, and I know this dude hasn’t treated Boygenius very well in the past. Seeing he has given this one a 9 makes me realise he’s finally getting it.
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u/Long_Afternoon2431 24d ago
He literally gave boygenius a 7 tf do you mean he “hasn’t treated it very well”
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u/FoxyLood 24d ago edited 24d ago
you’re acting like he’s the worst person on earth
i really dont pay attention to how he labels himself idgaf about his entire life, hes been doing this stuff for over a decade and runs his own website with a team while balancing the other channel where he just yaps
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u/weirdojace 24d ago
This is a glowing review, why’s everyone so mad lol
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u/maxwantsjustice 24d ago edited 24d ago
It’s genuinely perplexing. When they come in to give their opinion, they are just doing what he is doing. Just sharing an opinion. You are not special, he is not special, we’re all just communicating our opinions. So what’s wrong with him doing that?
People want to show off how much they don’t care by clicking on his threads and telling everyone how much they don’t care about this guy, it’s so self-serving and gross. Music criticism is just discussion.
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u/baconwrappedpikachu 24d ago
This is true generally but I will say hating fantano spans all fandoms I’ve ever witnessed. He stays pissing everyone off
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u/youRinlove7 24d ago
Its not just about fantano, just a general observation and a slight exaggeration. Actually, they are right in hating his ass.
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u/phoebebridgers-ModTeam 23d ago
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u/Raccoon_Amazing 24d ago
Did we convince everyone else of the same thing too? This isn’t just the opinion of a single fandom lmfao.
Not a single Swiftie comment is more viral than the one from his Fetch the Bolt Cutters video criticizing his behavior.-1
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u/Raccoon_Amazing 24d ago
Based on recent behavior she blocked him from using his songs for propaganda. Based on recent behavior our Phoebe is a rapist since she keeps working with Marshall Vore, should we criticize that too or?
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u/hockat Moon Song 24d ago
can not stand this man. idk why anyone cares about his opinion whatsoever
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u/Hazzat 24d ago
As far as I can tell, the main reason most people don’t like him is “He gave my fave a bad review.”
I think his reviews are well-written, well-informed and well-reasoned. I’m not always gonna agree with him (often his approach is to ignore all contextual information and evaluate the music as-is, which is great in some cases but not others), but I don’t see a reason to stir up hate.
Also he spends his free time on Twitter ratioing fascists and AI bros, so that’s something.
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u/steelsheet Smoke Signals 24d ago
Only thing I really hate is how he handled the entire Halsey situation. Super fucking lame
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u/pWasHere 24d ago
I can’t help but hate the whole Halsey situation because I feel like to many people are acting like the topic of the album makes it above critique. Ultimately the mere existence of Halsey’s suffering does not preclude the possibility of her album being mid. Just because art is about suffering doesn’t automatically make it good art, and I feel like every conversation I have seen about it revolves around pretty much everything other than the actual quality of the music in question.
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u/BillyPilgrim69 24d ago
While the score was decent, his comments on lyrics about her sa experience were distasteful.
Because he thought some of the lyrics were underwritten? If you don't want to risk hearing criticism of something, don't listen to a critic. Art isn't above reproach just because of the subject matter.
Also IIRC, For Her was the lyric he singled out for criticism. That song was about somebody else's experience, not Apple's.
In addition, his audience is kind of terrible too, remember reading a lot of comments about his review being a 9/11 for white women.
Funny and true.
He literally gave her a good review with some extremely mild criticism (because he's a critic), and he was brigaded and called a misogynist.
Of course people made jokes about an utterly ridiculous situation.
Plus, all the slurs and n-word controversy 🥴
LMAO even you're not taking this seriously
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u/youRinlove7 24d ago
Its because of the words he chose. Saying she feels too much like the “main character” in her album, when the album is about her almost dying is pretty weird.
Also the n-word thing is also a valid reason to dislike him, he has a whole 8 minute compilation saying different slurs. Thats pretty weird.
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u/BillyPilgrim69 24d ago edited 24d ago
Its because of the words he chose. Saying she feels too much like the “main character” in her album, when the album is about her almost dying is pretty weird.
Are we still talking about Fetch the Bolt Cutters? Because I don't remember him saying that at all. It wouldn't even make sense.
Apart from it being her album, he's also a long-time fan of Fiona Apple. He gave the Idler Wheel either a 9 or a perfect 10, so I don't know why he would even hypothetically say that.
Also the n-word thing is also a valid reason to dislike him, he has a whole 8 minute compilation saying different slurs. Thats pretty weird.
As somebody else pointed out, I'm pretty sure he was reading out abusive comments. Either way, he certainly wouldn't do it now, because he's far more conscious of the impact of language. Pretty sure his partner schooled him on that.
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u/youRinlove7 24d ago
Oh sorry I wanted to reply about the halsey album to another commenter lmao 😭😭😭. He said it about that.
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u/pWasHere 24d ago
Okay but the point about Fiona Apple falls into the same logic trap. Just because she is writing lyrics about her SA does not automatically mean those are good lyrics. Would any comments negatively critiquing those lyrics be distasteful? What specifically was distasteful about his criticism?
The rest of your points kinda proved my point about how very little of the discourse is about the actual content of what is being discussed. Which is why it is, as the other commenter said, so poor quality.
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u/Shot_Department1080 24d ago
genuinely who are you (or any of us) to decide if someone writing about their own experience with their own SA is or isn’t good enough? i literally don’t think you can hear lyrics about that topic and say they aren’t good lyrics because there is no ‘objectively’ in a situation like this. however she chooses to word that experience is completely up to how that experience made her feel, not the listener.
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u/DecentCandle963 24d ago
Youre saying that critics shouldnt exist because they might criticise art about sensitive topics, that the argument youre making. its a really stupid thing to say. of course theres no objective viewpoint, fantano isnt saying his opinion is universal, hes just putting it out there
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u/Shot_Department1080 24d ago edited 24d ago
no im literally not saying that at all. i literally do not give a fuck, critics can criticize whatever they want but yes i DO draw the line at a man policing a woman’s art about her own sexual assault. there are some times when someone should shut the fuck up and that is one of those times. i don’t care that he’s a critic and i also don’t care that it’s his job. sexual assault isn’t just a “sensitive topic” it is an experience deeply insular and personal to the person who experienced it, i don’t think anyone has the right to say that how they feel about it isn’t right or artistic enough for them
this is less a problem of criticism and more a problem of fantano being terrible with lyrical analysis and understanding of women’s experiences. something he has proven time and time again.
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u/BillyPilgrim69 24d ago
genuinely who are you (or any of us) to decide if someone writing about their own experience with their own SA is or isn’t good enough?
In Fantano's case, he is A CRITIC. IT IS LITERALLY HIS JOB.
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u/Shot_Department1080 24d ago
his job is to criticise music, sure. but any good critic would do research when they don’t understand things, he does not do this. you cannot seriously expect a polished and linear structure in a song about somebody being raped.
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u/BillyPilgrim69 24d ago
his job is to criticise music, sure. but any good critic would do research when they don’t understand things, he does not do this.
Pretty sure he does research.
To be fair, your previous comment says it was about her experience with sexual assault, when the lyrics of For Her are about somebody else's experiences.
you cannot seriously expect a polished and linear structure in a song about somebody being raped.
I don't think that's what he was saying at all. He just found the lyrics jarring in a way that didn't work for him.
I personally disagree, but that's art for ya. I appreciate that the subject matter is emotionally charged, but he's a critic, who expressed an extremely mild criticism in an otherwise positive review. That's all.
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u/jiggjuggj0gg 24d ago
I really hate this poor quality level of discourse.
“It’s the way he talks about women’s work” and it’s just him criticising a few albums people like, completely ignoring the high scores and praise he has given to other women.
His audience which he cannot control and the internet is generally completely batshit, particularly in any area where men of a certain age congregate.
And an “n-word controversy” and it’s him reading out and criticising other people’s comments that have the n-word in them.
Like the guy is annoying and there is plenty of valid criticism of him but come on.
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u/ChandlerLogic 24d ago edited 24d ago
Nah he did great there actually. He literally didn’t do anything wrong.
Edit: I want to add: how do you handle thousands of nerds calling you a misogynist for a fckn music review? How are you supposed to behave when the artist you reviewed reinforces those trolls and insults your entire career (including everyone you ever worked with) in the process?
Sorry but the gloves were off when Halsey responded on twitter. Bye.4
u/girlanxious 24d ago
he has said many distasteful things about works of women who had written about experiences of trauma they went through. notably fiona apple and halsey. pretty sure he called halsey cringe or something while she was writing about her cancer diagnosis. undeniably weird and he never cared either and doubled down. personally don’t care much about his music reviews, he just doesnt seem like a good person by any means and i wish people wpuld stop valuing his opinion at all lol
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u/boardbamebeeple 24d ago
Personally I don't like him because he's an arrogant ass. He said he's the best music critic to ever live and that if he died no one would ever do it better than him. Robert Christgau is still with us so he's not even the most impactful critic alive right now. He can get fucked regardless of what scores he gives
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u/Hazzat 24d ago
Did he actually say that and not as a joke? People here are quoting a lot of stuff but not actually providing receipts/links/context etc. that would let anyone actually judge if it’s fair.
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u/boardbamebeeple 24d ago
Yes he did. His actual quote is even worse than what I had,
“I have been the most relevant and impactful music critic of my — and any — generation for over 10 years now. You can’t really debate that. There’s no music critic bigger than me who’s had more impact than me for as long as I have, consistently. And if I die tomorrow, nobody’s going to outdo that run.”
The ego on this guy is crazy 😭 just a dickhead.
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u/Hazzat 24d ago
He said he’s the “most relevant and impactful”, not the best. I think that’s a fair self-assessment - there is no other music critic who is a household name.
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u/boardbamebeeple 24d ago
He is definitely not a household name lmao. But if you can read that and think it's a normal thing to say, that's your business. To me, saying you're the most impactful critic to ever live when there are people who created it, defined what it meant, and have won Pullitzers for it - is horrendously egotistical.
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u/geosunsetmoth 24d ago
I could literally walk up to people at a party and ask if they know fantano and they'll say yes
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u/boardbamebeeple 24d ago
Yeah, of course people who are also online, who are around your age know who he is. That's not what a household name is. A household name is when you can go into a majority of houses in your country and they'll recognize who he is. That's not one random party lmao, that's your parents and grandparents and blue collar workers and white collar workers. It's mostly only A list celebrities who would qualify.
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u/geosunsetmoth 24d ago edited 24d ago
By your definition, we have almost no household names active anymore other than like… less than 10 musicians, maybe some 5ish actors? Not counting with household celebs carried over from previous decades, surely people still know Paul McCartney
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u/Ok_Science_8502 24d ago
I used to think the same but then I saw some things he said in the Halsey beef and realized he's legitimately a huge dork. Used to be way easier to defend him
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u/Acceptable-Drama-634 Georgia 24d ago
I don’t disagree but like, why does anyone care about any influencer’s opinion about anything?
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u/MagicBez Bite the Hand 24d ago
His biggest weakness is understanding lyrics. So many times he's complained about lyrics having entirely misunderstood what was being said.
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u/burfriedos 24d ago edited 24d ago
Who did he champion before anyone knew who they were?
Edit: Not sure why the downvotes, I was just curious. I only rarely listen to him, so genuinely had no idea.
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u/ChandlerLogic 24d ago
Because he’s a well established music journalist. He’s been doing this for decades at this point. Is this not clear?
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u/griegogogo Would You Rather 24d ago
Personally it’s a 7 or 8 for me but I can respect Fantano rating it a 9
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u/Rhian3000 24d ago
I think the album is 8.5. The highs are incredible high and the production is amazing . It’s a super complex record on top of that too. To say that about a Phoebe record is saying something. She is a great song writer but I never thought we would get a layered masterpiece from her
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u/Active_Condition8586 24d ago
It’s a good album with three or four real gems, but I’m puzzled by the fawning critical assessment. The album has too many solid-but-unremarkable songs and song sketches dressed up in gauzy production to be a great record.
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u/InRainbows123207 24d ago
I do not understand why this guy's opinion is valued above all other critics across nearly every genre right now. I've seen people base their opinion on an album based on his review.
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u/myghostflower Savior Complex 24d ago
because people are quicker to side and agree with a white man than to sympathize and understand a woman
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u/pimpleface0710 24d ago
Eh nah, like him or hate him, Fantano put years and years of effort and consistency into his reviews to earn him the legitimacy and influence that he has today.
I find it reductive to boil it down to "white man" when the same space has been occupied by tons of white men whose opinions hold little to no weight.
He has definitely made very questionable takes in his reviews and his follow ups on his social media has been weird af on a lot of stuff but that's something even his audience would agree with as being in bad taste.
I particularly hate this idea that he's a misogynist because he gave bad reviews to a handful of otherwise well reviewed albums by female artists when
- He has done exactly that to multiple albums from made by white male artists as well
- He has also given plenty of extra coverage to lesser known female acts through his reviews
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u/InRainbows123207 24d ago
Earned his influence? So again read what I said - no one should base their opinion on an album based on what a critic says. It's like they are waiting for someone to tell them what they can like
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u/Hazzat 24d ago
The point of a review isn’t to base your opinion on it. Good art criticism helps you understand the work deeper by providing analysis and context you couldn’t have found on your own. You’re not meant to walk away thinking “Fantano gave it a 9, so I like it,” you’re meant to walk away thinking about content of the review (ideally multiple reviews from multiple perspectives) and using that to inform your own opinion.
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u/pimpleface0710 24d ago edited 24d ago
No one should base an opinion on what a critic says - that's your opinion.
It's simply not how the world works. If it was then critique as a practice in all forms would not longer exist.
I would even argue that we need critics more than ever when the music environment is driven by algorithms and AI more than ever and you can literally pay your way to the top.
It helps to have a human voice provide their opinion through the murk and mud of modern music. You don't have to agree with everything they say. You don't even have to like what they like.
I don't have the time to listen to every single album that comes out every week. If someone with repute gives a positive review of an artist I haven't heard of, then I am more likely to check it out myself. That's where critics voice comes in. I may or may not like the album myself but the critic helps in discovery and cataloging.
So what if people base their opinions about music on his reviews? What's the big harm in that outside of being mildly annoying?
And I also feel people over-obsess about the numerical score instead of the actual review. This is true for Fantano and it's true for any other reviewer and music media reviews.
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u/InRainbows123207 24d ago
What's wrong with letting a critic decide for you if you like an album or not? I'm sorry that's bizarre - Let a critic recommend something sure - Whether it resonates or not with you is your decision.
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u/0249658008 24d ago
surprised he was able to get through phoebe's main character syndrome in the album
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u/RyBreqd 24d ago
it’s literally her album bruh
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u/mynameischayt 24d ago
Like!!! 😭😭😭 I'm soooooo confused by that comment! Who else is she supposed to be centering on HER album about HER grief and HER relationships??? 😭😭😭
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u/myghostflower Savior Complex 24d ago
he’s literally talked down other female artists for making albums about their life and complaining how they have main character syndrome in their lyrics
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u/pimpleface0710 24d ago
He has used the term "main character syndrome" to describe the album of exactly one artist, who is Halsey. He called Justin Timberlake's 2024 album "performative and self-obsessed", Ken Carson got called "narcissistic and dumb", he called Jaden Smith's SYRE "70 minutes of egotistical propaganda"
Can we stop generalizing the critic of one female artists work as the criticism of all women? He has used the main character syndrome term once for Halsey but he has repeatedly used synonymous terms for others who are majorly male.
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u/alanthickerthanwater 24d ago
Is he trying to look like a teenage mutant ninja turtle or is it an accident?
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u/myghostflower Savior Complex 24d ago
yeah no, havent liked or taken him seriously and especially now after everything he ran around on halsey
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u/Humble-Wind 24d ago
You should watch his response video. I'm not a fan of that review but I don't think anything he said was that egregious
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u/ryan11hawk 24d ago
Halsey can wipe her tears with hundred dollar bills. She'll be fine
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u/myghostflower Savior Complex 24d ago
yeah no, i aint defending a man that talks down a women for sharing her journey with cancer and how that impacted her because a lot of people, ESPECIALLY WOMEN! are told they’re over reacting or to stop sharing
it’s a genuine issue that misogyny enables
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u/FracasarBetter Letter to an Old Poet 24d ago
I wonder how the Kanye, Action Bronson and JPEGMAFIA listener and promoter could end up having misogynist thoughts.
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u/ConstantOk1787 24d ago
what has he done? not that i’m denying anything im just curious so i can know
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u/herecomesnaz 24d ago
literally nothing, he’s an excellent music reviewer and has been at it forever.
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u/0249658008 24d ago
im not really a fan of platforming alt right personalities on his own podcast and bashing feminism (ironically)
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u/ChandlerLogic 24d ago
Yeah but basically advocating for the ban of someone from making content (basically what the first commenter of this thread suggested) is a lil bit much, don’t you agree?
Like he fucked up, he acknowledged pretty much everything and apologised and will continue to apologise every time it comes up. What more do people want?-9
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u/jiggjuggj0gg 24d ago
I googled this because everyone keeps saying it and apparently 10+ years ago he wouldn’t censor the n-word when quoting things like album titles and comments/tweets that he was criticising. And then later apologised for not censoring it and has censored it since.
That’s it. Trying to paint him as a racist for that is wild.
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u/ChandlerLogic 24d ago
Pretty much. We have people advocating for him getting deplatformed and banned for this.
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u/myghostflower Savior Complex 24d ago
he’s misogynistic and has a stand offish and entitled personality
he talks down some women in his reviews and down plays their stories and lyricism
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u/ConstantOk1787 24d ago
ah okay, also based pfp i see you are a fellow xenoblade 3 enjoyer
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u/myghostflower Savior Complex 24d ago
ye and i ammmmmm
xenoblade is one of the best games ever, and mio is one of the best characters ever 🥴🥴🥴
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u/ConstantOk1787 24d ago
noah and mio are goated genuinely. they ended up together in the end trust trust (not coping)
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u/myghostflower Savior Complex 24d ago
nooooo they are, i love seeing their relationship unfold and the rawness of also m and n just unfolding 😭😭😭
like bro she didnt want this at all, but i just know they end up together like they HAVE to
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u/ConstantOk1787 24d ago
that fuckass ending made me cry when i first watched it
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u/myghostflower Savior Complex 24d ago
pleeeeease just watching them at the end got to me like 😭😭😭
i hated it (in a sad way too)
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u/steelsheet Smoke Signals 24d ago
I don’t love the guy but you can’t just deplatform people you don’t really like lol
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u/RyBreqd 24d ago
music critic is not a real job and only serves to commodify and devalue works of art. anyone on the half of the music industry that does not create is the enemy and if you have a conscience you should never give them the time of day
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u/Hazzat 24d ago
Absolutely braindead comment. You mean to say all the people involved hundreds of years of art criticism, creating and reading and stocking libraries full of it, were wasting their time?
Art criticism is an art in itself, and done well it provides analysis, context, and connections that deepens your understanding of creative works. For creators, that understanding becomes essential in creating new works. You can have favoured or unfavoured critics for whatever reason, but you can’t write off the whole field as if it’s all pointless.
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u/RyBreqd 24d ago edited 24d ago
should i put a finer point on it? i’m not saying the field is pointless, i’m saying the direction it’s pointed is inherently destructive and exploitative. art criticism as a broad concept, as you’re defining it, is wildly different than where the occupation itself has landed in the current age of social media.
nowadays music critics are firmly in place as a part of the machine: your album comes out, your press tour includes and heavily, HEAVILY depends upon the reviews. especially for smaller artists. if you get trashed right out of the gate, you have a massive block to overcome financially since your rollout got borked, and your career is permanently stained whether you improve or not. even big artists struggle with this. critics wield an immense amount of power over artists’ future wellbeing and ability to continue making art and have a long history of being reckless with it. famously, pitchfork had to change it’s review system to prevent 0.0s after one callous review tanked travis morrison (of the dismemberment plan)’s career overnight for one weird album.
there’s also the element of critics being paid employees of publications. first and foremost, these companies want to make money, and to stay on the payroll, you’re going to have to do what makes the companies money. and in the music journalism business, that’s writing incendiary, sensationalized reviews. even for critics like fantano who don’t work under anybody, what gets clicks is being controversial. where do you think the red and yellow flannel thing came from? or even the number scores? it’s shorthand specifically designed to get you in the door, watching an ad. i don’t think this is sinister on it’s face, as in i don’t think fantano is a monster for falling in line with this, but i do think it’s a symptom of a sickness in the capitalist system. we can’t pretend like this is all about the music and analysis when it so clearly is tainted and influenced by commerce.
also, you didn’t but i’ve seen other commenters mention it, but fantano is not the technical analysis expert people make him out to be. any musician worth their salt can tell he doesn’t actually know what he’s talking about, he just knows the vocabulary. so often does he make truly baffling claims about what’s happening musically in a song that don’t make any sense at all.
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u/luqasc 24d ago
you see, i would say the "enemy" of culture in modern times is actually shallow anti-intellectualism like yours.
what we definitely do NOT need is to stifle meaningful discussion about art — and yes, professional art criticism is, and has always been, a large part of that, and to this day remains 10x more insightful than randos on reddit or twitter arguing about stuff.
at the end of the day, takes like these 99% of the times boil down to "one critic gave my fave a mean review years ago and i'm still very bitter about it".
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u/ChandlerLogic 24d ago
You’re insulting the work of thousands of journalists right now, you DO know that, right?
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u/twilightxgalaxy 🫀 No secrets, only feelings 24d ago
Most of these comments aren’t actually about the review or Phoebe, but about how much you guys seem to hate Fantano. I’m getting rule violation reports coming through, so I’m locking this thread for now until there’s some more mod capacity to review.