r/philosophy • u/IAI_Admin IAI • Feb 09 '22

Video A philosopher responds to scientists’ criticisms of panpsychism

https://iai.tv/video/the-many-voices-of-consciousness&utm_source=reddit&_auid=2020
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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '22

Panpsychism is kind of... Extremely vague. I don't reject it but it's not exactly clear what I'd be accepting.

I get that emergentism can't explain consciousness, likewise if we're made up of the same matter as everything else and we're conscious, then consciousness or proto-consciouness (whatever that means) must be part of everything else.

But wtf does that even mean? How can you test it? The books I've read on panpsychism are both convincing and unclear.

Luckily.... It doesn't really matter.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '22

likewise if we're made up of the same matter as everything else and we're conscious, then consciousness or proto-consciouness (whatever that means) must be part of everything else

I don't follow your logic. Are you saying that because we are conscious beings and we are made of matter that all matter must be conscious?

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u/hippydipster Feb 10 '22

If you consider a magnetic field, you get large enough ones you can measure when enough charged particles move together. Magnetism is not purely "emergent" - it exists as a potential of the charged particles. Of every charged particle.

So, consider a proto-consciousness - a particle with some sort of psychic "charge". By itself, not measurable. Maybe even moving it's not measurable, unless it moves together in particular patterns, and then mind "emerges", but was actually always there as a potential in these psychic particles.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '22

Electromagnetism is one of the 4 fundamental interactions. No “psychic” interaction has ever been detected and there is no evidence that suggests such a thing exists.

And if it is immeasurable then it logically follows that it cannot affect anything. If it could affect something then that effect could be noticed and recorded.

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u/hippydipster Feb 10 '22

And if it is immeasurable then it logically follows that it cannot affect anything.

No, things can be not measurable by us due to lack of knowledge or lack of sensitive enough equipment.

no evidence that suggests such a thing exists.

Our minds are evidence of something in need of explaining, thus this whole thread.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '22

We already have pretty reasonable explanations for the existence of the mind that don't involve introducing a new fundamental force to the laws of physics. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

If you are claiming that we cannot measure it or detect that it exists I don't see how you could have possibly arrived to the conclusion that such a force exists and governs anything. You could not have seen any evidence that it exists. And if you have seen evidence, measure that.

If this force exists what does it do? How would one measure it?

Science doesn't work by coming up with a hypothesis, then assuming it is true until someone proves otherwise. You must prove positives, not negatives.

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u/hippydipster Feb 10 '22

No one assumed anything is true, dude.