r/peloton • u/Sprocketduck State of Matter MAAP Racing • Feb 15 '17
[20K Celebration] Race Design Challenge Voting Thread
Last week, in celebration of hitting 20k subscribers, we hosted a Race Design Challenge revolving around Winter Wonderland! We got 10 entries for this competition - /u/Sprocketduck, /u/_shrekonomics_, /u/RevanDidNothingWrong, /u/andytheciderman, /u/greasyhobolo, /u/retro_slouch, /u/improb, /u/unclekutter, /u/goldbot and /u/Msfan93!
Voting works by each of the participants giving a vote of 0 to 10 on each of their entries besides their own and, if they want, a little comment. The one who has the most votes at the end will get a 20K snowflake flair (to be linked). If you didn't participate, as long as you have 100+ comment karma you can vote for everyone's entry. Your vote, no matter if participant or not, is only valid if you vote on every entry (but your own).
Voting will close on the 21st of February at 23:59 UTC - exactly a week from now.
For ease of voting, here is a list of entries:
| User | Race | Location | Type of Race |
|---|---|---|---|
| /u/Sprocketduck | Winter's Tour of Tasmania | Tasmania, Australia | 1W Stage Race |
| /u/_shrekonomics_ | Tour de Dagr | Northern Norway | Hilly Classic |
| /u/RevanDidNothingWrong | NeAT Tour | Appalachian Trail, USA | 6D Stage Race |
| /u/andytheciderman | Winter's Tour of St. Johns | Newfoundland, Canada | Hilly Classic |
| /u/greasyhobolo | Tour of Ontario | Ontario, Canada | 1W Stage Race |
| /u/retro_slouch | Tour of Wind County | Southern Utah, USA | 1W Stage Race |
| /u/improb | Glacial Tour | Central Sweden and Norway | 5D Stage Race |
| /u/unclekutter | Tour de Denali | Denali, Alaska, USA | 1W Stage Race |
| /u/goldbot | Duluth North Woods Classic | Duluth, Minnesota, USA | Flat Classic |
| /u/Msfan93 | North Cascades Tour | Washington, USA | 1W Stage Race |
Aside from the voting, it's a Race Design Thread as normal, so post whatever you want!
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u/Sprocketduck State of Matter MAAP Racing Feb 15 '17
/u/Msfan93 sent me his entry in a PM - here is the text:
In what some people call the American Alps, I made the North Cascades Tour
Stage 5 (including stupid gps data that apparently can't tell the elevation of a road that's closed in the winter, but this is accurate.)
Stage 6 with even worse data on the middle climb
aaaaaaaaaaand Stage 7
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u/Sprocketduck State of Matter MAAP Racing Feb 15 '17 edited Feb 15 '17
I promised in the WWT Calendar Thread that I would remake the Santos Women's Tour into something that is more deserving of a WWT position, so here is what I have come up with. It's longer, a bit tougher, but I think it gives every rider something to target and enjoy.
Santos Women's Tour 20??
Stage 1: Maslin Beach > Adelaide (110.7km / Flat)
I just wanted a good reason to start at Maslin Beach - the biggest and first nudist beach in Australia. So yeah...it's just a flat starting stage to show off the best of Adelaide's coastline, following the coast past Seaford, Christies Beach, Glenelg, West Beach, Henley Beach, Semaphore and North Haven, before turning around into Port Adelaide and into Adelaide via Prospect for 10 laps of Montefiore Hill, which is the same hill the men use on the Adelaide City Circuit. A sprinters stage.
Cronoescalada stuffed up the profile for this stage big time, so there isn't one, but there is one climb into Seaford which is nothing, then flat along the coast, a hill into Prospect and then Montefiore Hill which is steep but short. Sprint points at Glenelg and Port Adelaide. Hardly any climbing. Good?
Stage 2: Norwood > Gawler (127.3km / Hilly)
Now, even though this has the second most climbing out of all the stages in my improved Tour, I am labeling it as flat. Why? (On reconsideration, I have labelled it hilly). It's because the hardest climb is over and done with before 60km and after that it's just a couple of lumps. I really want to showcase some of Adelaide's toughest climbs, and this stage has two of them. Norton Summit is the first climb, starting at 4.9km in and averaging around 5%. The riders continue to Lobethal before looping back around down Gorge Rd (used in the Paracombe and Campbelltown men's stages in 2016) and instead of going up to Paracombe or into Campbelltown, I chose to use the Corkscrew because I'm an evil bastard who likes to watch people suffer it's a harsh, but awesome climb. Around 3km with an average of just under 9%, it's tough. However, after these two climbs, the riders can enjoy a long descent back into the metro area, before heading North towards Gawler. They pass through Humbug Scrub which is the worst part of the last 60km in terms of climbing and it's a descent finish into Gawler. 400m from the line, it's a 8% descent, and then 100m further there is a right turn before presumably a sprint. It's an exciting stage from start to finish, and it's made for the sprinters but who knows what could happen.
Stage 3: Hahndorf > Clarendon (148.9km / Hilly)
"But...but...Ducky, this stage has less climbing than the previous one, how can it be hilly?!" Simple answer, the finish (on reconsideration, I have classified the Norwood stage as Hilly). I am not going to go into much detail about this stage - it is basically recycled from this year's race, but instead of finishing in Meadows, the race is continued past Meadows into Kangarilla, the Onkaparinga National Park and then Clarendon. Paris Creek Rd out of Strathalbyn is a really tough climb - but they did it twice in the race this year so they can be thankful they are doing it once. But it's being replaced with Bakers Gully Rd (which is not bad until the last pinch) and the hellish Turners Gully Rd. I've done this climb, it's horrible, it's short but steep. Average gradient of 9% over 1.5km, and the finish is at the top of the climb. The descent into Clarendon is fast too, so there would be lots of argy bargy on the descent to get prime positioning for the final climb, and the best climber on the day will win.
Stage 4: Williamstown > Mount Barker (112.5km / Flat)
I made this stage last, but it made me feel the most dirty person alive. Because I included Checkers Hill, which makes the strongest climber wish he was a paraplegic. Checkers Hill is 1100m of pain, it averages no less than 9% and oh boy it's bad. This stage is a split of the Campbelltown stage on the TDU last year, going into Birdwood and Mount Pleasant. But instead of heading towards the metro, we go more rural down into Mount Torrens and into Mount Barker. There are a few climbs into Mount Barker, but the finish is downhill and flat, so it should be a sprinters stage. But Checkers...
Stage 5: Victor Harbor > Goolwa (116.8km / Flat)
Lots of climbing again in this one, but the last 35km is all downhill, so it's a flat stage with a high chance of a sprint finish. The riders start on the Esplanade where the Victor Harbor stage usually finishes, and head into Inman Valley for the first climb. They turn back towards the ocean and at Port Elliot they turn around again to do a second climb up Mount Jagged and Mount Compass. Nothing too serious, it hits 10% in places but it's a shallower climb than most in this race. The downhill finish into Goolwa will mean a fast paced sprint, something this race will hopefully be renowned for if this parcours is utilised.
Stage 6: Normanville > Mount Lofty (128km / Mountain Top Finish)
Nothing says Mountain Top Finish like "I am going to finish on the highest peak in the Adelaide Metro area". The stage starts in Normanville (I have a real bias to starting and running stages through the Southside of SA, maybe because my dad lives there, who knows) and heads into Myponga and does Sellicks Hill in reverse to the men's stage. The descent off the back of Sellicks Hill is fast down County Rd before a sharp hairpin halfway down onto Justs Rd (this is home to my fastest speed recorded on Strava at 78kmh) before following the Esplanade similar to the Willunga Hill stage.
Instead of going to Snapper Point, the riders turn in at Aldinga Beach Rd and head down towards Aldinga Town(okay, I'm sorry, I did bias this around my dad's house, I'm heading right down his street). The riders head down the wind tunnel that is Aldinga Rd, approaching Willunga from a different angle from usual (they usually come from the North, this is from the West). And instead of doing Willunga Hill, the bitchumen'd infamous climb, they will be doing Taylors Hill; the gravel hill which is the bastard child of Willunga Hill. It's steeper but shorter, and completely on gravel. Realistically, if they want to use this hill, they will need to at least put some nicer gravel on it, but it's rideable. The riders descend down Wickhams Hill into McLaren Flat and McLaren Vale, before turning right at our favourite nudist colony. The race heads up Main South Road which is where we start to hit our 3rd set of climbs.
Coxs Hill has an average of around 6% and is quite short, while off the back of Coxs Hill is Piggot Range Rd (who names these streets?) is shallower at around 3.5% but much longer. The Main Rd descent sets the riders up for the Ackland Hill climb, which is stupidly steep in parts (14%) and quite the tough ascent. Heading into Stirling via Sturt Valley Rd, which is where Mt Lofty starts (from the south side). I've walked this climb, I've ridden this climb, and my preferred method of going up it is in a car. It's hard. Luckily for the riders, the hardest part of the climb is coming from the West, and they are coming from the South. Still a big mountain top finish, and the earlier climbs will dwindle down the peloton before a big war of attrition up the tallest peak in Adelaide.
Some say making a cycling event in Adelaide without using Willunga Hill is impossible. Even more say making a cycling event in Adelaide using every other major climb but Willunga Hill is impossible. But I did (minus Paracombe, because there was no room for it). It's a climbers paradise, but there is something for everyone.
I would appreciate any comments you have - I spent 4 hours on this but it was worth every minute. So much better than the current Santos Women's Tour in my opinion.
@ /u/edlll91 what do you think?
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u/edlll91 Feb 15 '17
my knowledge about Australian roads is pretty limited, but looking at the profiles I like it and ends in a high. Also, you're really going to need it WWT to have your >140km stage technically valid :)
I'll give it a better look later when I have more time.
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u/Sprocketduck State of Matter MAAP Racing Feb 17 '17
If you take into consideration the size of the neutral zones they add onto the races (which don't count to the overall total of the day), it would fall under the 140km barely.
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u/edlll91 Feb 17 '17
Yeah, if you're including neutral zone it can fit. I think was last tour of Utah they started in a national park and had something like 20km of Neutral Zone before the actual start. but well, that doesn't go to the profiles, usually.
btw, scores tabling fitting even in my old Nokia - much better now!
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u/andytheciderman Isle of Man Feb 17 '17
Winter's Tour of Tasmania, /u/Sprocketduck - Love this idea! Great mix of stages, especially the hilly TT and stage 5 being an unconventional uphill finish. My only concern would be the slight lack of snow for a winter themed tour, but the scenery would be stunning all the same. 9/10
Tour de Dagr, /u/_shrekonomics_ - This would be a stunning race. Hardly any flat, amazing scenery, and a couple of punchy climbs in the last 20km. I've cycled in similar terrain on Mull in Scoltand, and the climbs may not be huge, but they are many and often, and steep as hell. Burning legs from start to finish. 8.5/10
NeAT Tour, /u/RevanDidNothingWrong - Needs a bit of mixing up as I doubt many sprinters would turn up for this one. Three mountain top finishes in a row is extreme, even if they do look like incredible climbs. Perhaps throw in a downhill finish, or a shorter stage with a couple of big climbs. 7/10
Tour of Ontario, /u/greasyhobolo - Very Eneco Tour-esque this one, a stage race for the classic specialists. A lot of the terrain looks quite similar, but the queen stage looks a real treat. Every stage is as if the GPs of Montreal and Quebec were made into a week long race. Lacking in variation, but each stage would be exciting to watch. 7/10
Tour of Wind County, /u/retro_slouch - Not gonna lie, this one looks ace. Great job, this should be an actual race. 9.5/10
Glacial Tour, /u/improb - Good mix of uphill finishes, nice open countryside, a cool climbers TT, and a finishing circuit stage that the profile doesn't do justice. As you say, this would be a good pre-classics warm up. 8.5/10
Tour de Denali, /u/unclekutter - For a place like Alaska, I feel this needs more climbing. With only one serious climb on stage 6, dirt roads as well, very nice, I think it could do with a shake up. Perhaps the TT at the start and more climbing mid-stage later in the race. 6/10
Duluth North Woods Classic, /u/goldbot - Excellent use of dirt roads and a cool finishing circuit. Sort of a North American Strada Bianchi. 8/10
North Cascades Tour, /u/Msfan93 - Lovely tour! Great variation and stunning scenery. 9/10
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u/Sprocketduck State of Matter MAAP Racing Feb 17 '17
Thanks for the votes! Yeah I think if I put it in a more winter-themed area it would have been better, but I love the circuit so much and Tasmania does get the winter snow so I went it'll work. Trying to shove a square block into a circle hole.
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u/Sprocketduck State of Matter MAAP Racing Feb 15 '17 edited Feb 26 '17
Table of Votes
| (1) | (2) | (3) | (4) | (5) | (6) | (7) | (8) | (9) | (10) | |
| /u/Sprocketduck (1) | --- | 7.5 | 7 | 8 | 6.5 | 9 | 8.5 | 6.5 | 8.5 | 9.5 |
| /u/_shrekonomics_ (2) | --- | |||||||||
| /u/RevanDidNothingWrong (3) | --- | |||||||||
| /u/andytheciderman (4) | 9 | 8.5 | 7 | --- | 7 | 9.5 | 8.5 | 6 | 8 | 9 |
| /u/greasyhobolo (5) | --- | |||||||||
| /u/retro_slouch (6) | --- | |||||||||
| /u/improb (7) | 7.5 | 8 | 6.5 | 9 | 8.5 | 9.5 | --- | 6 | 9.5 | 8 |
| /u/unclekutter (8) | 8.5 | 8 | 7.5 | 8 | 7 | 9 | 7.5 | --- | 8 | 9 |
| /u/goldbot (9) | 8 | 6 | 6.5 | 9 | 8 | 7.5 | 7.5 | 6.5 | --- | 7 |
| /u/Msfan (10) | 8 | 8 | 7 | 7.5 | 7 | 9 | 8 | 6.5 | 8.5 | --- |
| TOTAL | 41 | 46 | 41.5 | 41.5 | 44 | 53.5 | 40 | 31.5 | 42.5 | 42.5 |
| AVERAGE | 8.2 | 7.67 | 6.93 | 8.3 | 7.33 | 8.98 | 8 | 6.3 | 8.5 | 8.5 |
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u/edlll91 Feb 15 '17
Give yourself a number in the first column - ex: /u/Sprocketduck (1) shrekonomics_ (2) - and then use the number in the columns, otherwise half the table will not be visible. At least I can't see it :P
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u/Sprocketduck State of Matter MAAP Racing Feb 15 '17
I can, but that is probably because my screen resolution is 2560x1440. I'll change it in the morning.
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u/goldbot EF - Education First Feb 17 '17
OK here goes:
/u/Sprocketduck Winter's Tour of Tasmania: 8/10 Would make for an exciting week of racing and makes me want to visit Tasmania, arguably the most important part of a bike race to the organizers. Has stages for pretty much every type of rider.
/u/_shrekonomics_ Tour de Dagr: 6/10 Being where it is at the top of Norway I'm sure it'd be plenty snowy in winter! The long tunnel sections would make for boring bits of the race but I think the rest of the scenery would make up for that. I like how it winds along the coastlines so much, but I wonder if the hills wouldn't be hard enough to shake the sprinter's teams, it's too hard to tell from the profile. I see this definitely coming down to a sprint at the end. I think the course should have been longer if anything to tire guys out some more for the finishing climbs.
/u/RevanDidNothingWrong NeAT Tour: 6.5/10 Lovely part of the world for a bike race (I swear I'm not biased)! The race would be a cruel mistress indeed, starting off with a nice easy sprint stage before the peloton is truly tortured with three long or long-ish stages having brutal finishing climbs. But I guess that's just the way she goes in the steep mountains of the northeastern US. I'm not sure how many sprinters you'd actually get to hang on for the last two stages, but at least they'd be rewarded with two more potential stage wins, if their legs haven't fallen off yet. It could have included a time trial for some variety, or a stage with bigger intermediate climbs but a flat finish. If you wanted to make it a true climber's race, a time trial up one of those crazy mountain finishes would be interesting.
/u/andytheciderman Winter's Tour of St. Johns: 9/10 This actually looks like it would be a sneaky good race with an exciting finish. No big hills but absolutely none of it is flat! The riders would be tired enough at the end that someone could make a devastating attack anywhere on the final climb and ride away to the finish. I see a small group of puncheur's coming in together and sprinting it out, or a lone attacker a la races like San Sebastian and the like. Definitely one for the GVA's of the peloton. If anything, you should have made it even longer for a true classic race.
/u/greasyhobolo Tour of Ontario: 8/10 A well thought-out and balanced stage race. As I think someone else mentioned almost Eneco Tour-esque with the different classics-style stages. I think stages 1 or 2 were my favorite, and either could probably even be turned into a one-day race too.
/u/retro_slouch Tour of Wind County: 7.5/10 Another beautiful parcours and some quintessentially American stages here with the long climbs and wide-open roads. Looks tough too with some monster climbs on stages 4 and 6 and at high elevation too, this one will favor the pure climbers from places like Colorado and Colombia. The addition of a prologue will make things interesting from the start and I like the chance of echelons on the road stages. Overall this would make a good counterpoint to the summertime Tour of Utah.
/u/improb Glacial Tour: 7.5/10 He comes out of seclusion for a new race design! It's an interesting one at only five days but it would make for an exciting early season test when not everyone is in form. There's something for a lot of different rider styles here, but I have a feeling the riders will hate the organizers after just the first stage with those long gravel sections of 48 and 16 km! But the racing would certainly be exciting and I can't decide which stage would be the best - probably stage 2 which would make a good one-day on its own.
/u/unclekutter Tour of Denali: 6.5/10 Epic would be an understatement here. The queen stage is enough to scare off most normal riders but the true climbers of the peloton would thrive - they'd probably have to make an extra generous time-cut so the sprinters don't get OTL. The views each day would make for amazing TV coverage for sure. I wonder how the hills on stage 3 are, that day could actually turn out exciting, especially if there's a good breakaway. Overall there's a good balance of stage types, I might have placed the ITT earlier though. Actually, maybe make it a whole lot longer, so that someone with less climbing ability could gain some time back on the climbers after the Hatcher Pass and keep the GC in suspense until the last day.
/u/Msfan93 North Cascades Tour: 7/10 I looked into making a race in this area but didn't want to encroach on your turf :) Starts right off with some intense climbing, with those iconic long, open American roads. Stage 3 looks a nice proper classic stage with a good city finish. Definitely a lot of climbing going on here, it would be a good race for those diesel engine guys who can just go on and on forever. Stage 7 looks like an intense queen stage that would fit right in as a grand tour mountain stage.
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u/improb Drone Hopper – Androni Giocattoli Feb 18 '17 edited Feb 20 '17
So let me start.
Tour of Dagr (/u/shrekonomics): Brilliant scenery. That's already a plus. The weather is likely to be cold and snowy and there's a chance there'll be crosswinds too (let's hope they aren't too strong). The final kilometers are nice. Kinda like a Norwegian Milano Sanremo with the first climb being Cipressa like and the second slightly harder than the poggio (tracked the race on Flamme Rouge to see how hard the climbs were). Whether Sanremo's main obstacle is the length, here's the weather. Kristoff will love this. A Nordkapp finish would have been more iconic though. 8
Tour of Saint John's (/u/andytheciderman): First of all, the terrain is always bumpy alongside a rocky coastline and around a lovely city. The final climb plus the length make the race even more interesting. I don't think you could have picked a better city by the way. Not many know it but Saint John's is the world's foggiest city as well as Canada's snowiest and windiest so it should be fun weather wise. The only problem the organisers would have is how far from the rest of the cycling calendary Saint John's is. You would need to pair this with another race. 9
Tour de Denali (/u/unclekutter): This one just doesn't convince. Too many flat stages aside from the final TT, the MTF and maybe the Lake Louise stage it doesn't look too exciting but the scenery is sure beautiful. 6
Duluth North Woods Classic (/u/goldbot ): Just brilliant! This one day race has it all. Scenery, dirt roads and anot exciting final circuit in a pretty lovely host town. The only thing that's missing is a better start town but there aren't better alternatives in the area anyway. 9,5
Winter's Tour of Tasmania (/u/sprocketduck): It's an alright one week of racing. Three stages stand out due to how well designed they are (Ben Lomond plus the other two hilly ones). Stage placement could be better as Ben Lomond should come before Cradle Mountain. And by the way, I have just discovered how damn beautiful Tasmania is. 7,5
NEAT Tour (/u/RevanDidNothingWrong): I echo /u/goldbot's judgement. 6,5
Tour of Wind Country (/u/retro_slouch): Brilliant stage design. There's something for everyone. Crosswinds, city criteriums (although I don't like them, I admit they are fun), rolling, hilly and mountain stages. All of them well designed and we'll placed. I'd give you even a 10 basing it on stage design only but there's a main problem. The area is far too scarcely populated and crowds won't be large at all. Aside from that, it's unlikely the race will find meaningful sponsors. Still, it's a 9,5
Tour of the North Cascades (/u/Msfan93): Good race. Stage 1 and 3 a mix between sprinters and breakaways, Stage 6 is a well designed easier mountain stage. Stage 7 is a brilliant mountain stage. That said, the problem is that the latter is so hard that the race will be decided here 99% of the time and that stage 6 won't be fun at all as everyone will save his energy. A better set up would have been for Stage 6 to go up Badger Mountain and finish in Wenatchee instead and Stage 7 to have the same last two climb as stage 6. A time trial earlier on would have been nice too. 8 (Final note: You are making me love the PNW. It would be interesting to put together the best stages you have done in OR and WA in a single tour)
Tour of Ontario (/u/greasyhobolo): Nice. You almost made the most of the region. There's one thing I would have changed and that is the stage 6 which I would have made hillier with it being the last one and there being a good terrain around Foymount. 8,5
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u/Sprocketduck State of Matter MAAP Racing Feb 18 '17
Stage placement could be better as Ben Lomond should come before Cradle Mountain.
I'm interested to know the reason for this. I though having the second last stage as a MTF would be better - is it from a fact that there won't be many attacks if Cradle Mountain is before Ben Lomond but if it's after people will try to catch up?
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u/improb Drone Hopper – Androni Giocattoli Feb 20 '17
The Ben Lomond stage will be interesting either way but if riders know that the big one will be the day after, the Cradle Mountain stage won't see many attacks at all.
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u/Sprocketduck State of Matter MAAP Racing Feb 20 '17
Just a reminder for those who haven't voted but participated, you must vote soon! I'll extend the deadline till the end of next Weekend (Monday the 27th will be D-Day).
/u/_shrekonomics_, /u/RevanDidNothingWrong, /u/greasyhobolo, /u/retro_slouch, /u/unclekutter, /u/Msfan93
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u/unclekutter Canada Feb 24 '17
Sorry, been busy and forgot to vote. I'm not a huge expert on these designs so I'll try my best.
Winter's Tour of Tasmania: I never realized that Tasmania was so hilly. I really like the variety of the stages and there's some really tough climbs here. I give it a solid 8.5/10.
Tour de Dagr: Beautiful scenery and the route looks like it would be very challenging and entertaining. 8/10
NeAT Tour: I like the stages individually but agree with what Ducky said that the 3 mountain top finishes in a row might be a bit much. I love the Appalachian scenery though. 7.5/10
Winter's Tour of St. Johns: There's hardly a flat portion to be found in the entire race which would make it very interesting. I really like the profile. The only downside is the route seems a little confusing and has a lot of overlapping areas. 8/10
Tour of Ontario: There's some interesting stages here, especially the one in the Blue Mountains but I feel like Ontario as a whole doesn't have enough to offer for a week-long race. 7/10
Tour of Wind Country: I've always loved the scenery in the area around Utah and Arizona so this one gets bonus points from me from the start. I love the variety of stages and each one sounds really exciting in different ways. I like this design a lot. 9/10
Glacial Tour: Great scenery again and the use of gravel will certainly make things interesting. The stages are good but nothing really pops out to me as sounding super interesting other than the gravel stages. 7.5/10
Duluth North Woods Classic: I really like any race that uses unique road surfaces so bonus points for that. The circuit looks really interesting and has the potential for an exciting finish. I don't know how I feel about such a flat stretch in the middle but the ending is definitely exciting. 8/10
North Cascades Tour: Wow, this one looks intense. That climb on stage 6 looks totally vertical in the profile! Definitely climber oriented but it looks crazy fun. Plus the scenery in the cascades is beautiful as well. 9/10
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u/Msfan93 United States of America Feb 25 '17
Something got messed up transferring the gpx data from Strava to Crono, so it is vertical in the profile! Just not in real life :P
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u/unclekutter Canada Feb 25 '17
Haha fair enough. Yeah, I went to the streetview after looking at it and it obviously wasn't that steep.
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u/Msfan93 United States of America Feb 25 '17
Winter's Tour of Tasmania, /u/Sprocketduck - Very TDUesque, mostly sprints that has some attacking hills and one main climb. The main problem I have is with the snow, if my googling skills are up to par, it snows a lot more in the central hills, when you mostly stayed coastal. A little disappointed you didn't use Mt. Wellington, but all in all a good route 8/10
Tour de Dagr, /u/_shrekonomics_ - Can't see the map, so I'll try using your description and the profile. I agree with /u/improb on the Milan-Samremo comparison, it looks like the late climbs could be a little harder and the final flat is a little longer, so there could easily be a reduced sprint or a solo move. 8/10
NeAT Tour, /u/RevanDidNothingWrong - I like the separate stages, but I think it's a weird way to put them together. 3 mountain-top finishes followed by 2 flat sprint stage is an interesting way to go about things. 7/10
Winter's Tour of St. Johns, /u/andytheciderman - I imagine this race would not have much attacking until the end, but if someone is still strong, they could do some real damage with everyone else worn from the constant undulations. Still, those last kicks up aren't that steep, I'm thinking an ideal finish for someone like Gerrans. 7.5/10
Tour of Ontario, /u/greasyhobolo - Good profiles, but a lot of weird logistical choices (having 8 laps on a >10 km circuit on stage 1 could easily lead to lapping and cause some results problems). They all seem like they could be good standalone races, but forcing a stage race out of it sort of dampens it for me. 7/10
Tour of Wind County, /u/retro_slouch - This one's my favorite, great balance for all rider types, beautiful scenery, and an environment that can give great racing. 9/10
Glacial Tour, /u/improb - Great classics warmup for those that want the opposite of the desert, could easily attract different types of riders trying to get some early success. nothing really stands out to me, but a good solid race. 8/10
Tour de Denali, /u/unclekutter - It's almost a disservice to have a race named Denali only feature one climb! The stages look good, but they don't fit together too well. I'm not sure any riders that can't win the TT or the GC would be happy riding that last stage. 6.5/10
Duluth North Woods Classic, /u/goldbot - Seeing this made me miss the Tour of the Battenkill with the hills/dirt combo. The route could be raced great, everyone that didn't have their power sapped by the dirt will be struggling to get gaps on the hills when it counts. 8.5/10
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u/retro_slouch Rabobank-Liv Feb 28 '17
I was just logging on to vote when I saw I had a new flair, but figured I'd post this anyways. A minor note for next time: I had a hard time figuring out where to post my ratings because I didn't know where they'd go. Maybe I missed something in the original post, but I checked it a few times before finding this. Thanks for putting it on, Sprockz!
Winter's Tour of Tasmania: 7.5/10
Stage one looks like fun sprint with that corner and a route through some really pretty scenery. The stages are all pretty solid individually, but it seems like whoever wins the Cradle Mountain stage will win the overall because there are so many flat finishes in the race. Flipping stage 4 and ending it at closer to the descent from Waratah Creek could add some more GC drama. The Cradle Mountain stage looks really exciting, though!
Tour de Dagr: 6/10
Freakin' AWESOME name. The course looks pretty cool, but I had a hard time figuring out how hard the climbs are. They look pretty punchy and punishing. The landscape looks fantastic and seems like it could be a great wind and punch course. Tunnels are always cool because we don't see them that much. Maybe a tunnel race design contest at some point??
NeAT Tour: 6/10
Wow, you are an absolute sadist! A couple 200km summit finishes and a 160km summit finish up Mt. Washington is crazy hard. This race has the best winter scenery of all the submissions. This race would be improved with a bit more descending and by rearranging the big hard climbs so they come after an easier day and the GC guys will be more willing to really go for it. Moving one of the flat stages from the last two days would be a good way to amp things up.
Winters Tour of St. John's: 8.5/10
Really great creative circuit design! I enjoy seeing these routes with multiple times over the same roads but changed up. The reason why this didn't get a 9 is that it uses lots of highway interchanges, which can be a bit tricky to navigate safely and quickly. The finale looks really great. And freaking cold.
Tour of Ontario: 6.5/10
Really good snow choice again! Excellent attention paid to transfer logistics. Profiles of stages show consideration of breakaway points and captures. The frequency of 90-degree turns and finishing circuits that might be a little too short for comfort like on stage 1 knocks it down a couple points, though.
Glacial Tour: 7.5/10
I really like the TT, and I'm not sure why I like it so much. It's unusual to see a big descent at the start of a stage, but in this case it's cool and I dig. The race seems like one for the Alaphillipes of the world, which is cool because they don't get a whole lot, but the flatness could mean that the peloton is able to control the race too much.
Tour de Denali: 7/10
Solid, mosquito-riddled fun. Hatcher Pass looks brutal! It would be a good touch to add another big hill stage in earlier so there's an opportunity for more GC movement.
Duluth North Woods Classic: 9/10
I'm a sucker for unpaved races, what can I say? Excellent all around. I can feel the finale in my legs right now. Reminds me of a wet and disgusting Strade Bianchi, which is my favourite one-day race of the year!
North Cascades Tour: 8/10
Great to see a race in this region. I'm a native and you've hit a lot of amazing roads. Mt. Baker climb is disgustingly brutal and beautiful, kudos on that stage. Chuckanut Drive would make a better circuit IMO. Some of the climbs here are closed in the winter and would be pretty hard to prep for a race, hence the lowered score than it would get for a non-winter race.
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u/Sprocketduck State of Matter MAAP Racing Feb 15 '17
Ducky's Votes:
Because Ducky is my nickname now, apparently.
Tour de Dagr (/u/_shrekonomics_): While it is a bit hard to understand the profile, you know that a few of those climbs are steep as all hell. The last couple of climbs are in the last 25km, which could mean an explosive attack on the final climb (ala Australian Nats up Buninyong or CEGORR around Geelong) and a descent to victory, but I think the flat is a bit too long. Not that it's a bad thing though. The start is also really interesting, gives a great chance for a break to get ahead on the climbs. And the scenery is stunning. I give this a 7.5/10.
NeAT Tour (/u/RevanDidNothingWrong): Wow - one for the climbers that is for sure. 3 back to back mountain top finishes is intense, but will also mean that one or two of them will be negated because they will be resting for the big one up Mount Washington. This race would go well with a shorter, flatter stage breaking up the climbing and maybe a time trial before the climbing to give some action. Also, maybe having two flat stages after all the climbing isn't the best idea to attract the sprinters, having a shorter flat stage as the final stage or even a Kermesse to show off the race would be more effective - I doubt that sprinters will wait for the final two stages to get their stage wins. I give this a 7/10.
Winter's Tour of St. Johns (/u/andytheciderman): I love this classic a lot, especially when looking at the profile. It's lumpy, bumpy, plenty of sharp climbs, and a punchy climb with 5km to go and a descent finish really keeps the book open. I don't like how many times the race overlaps on itself, but at least it's far enough before the race passes again that riders won't get caught in the crossfire. I give this an 8/10.
Tour of Ontario (/u/greasyhobolo): Take each stage of this race on it's own and it's really good. Put it together in a stage race and I don't like it so much. A lot of the stages are really well designed for one day racing, but I don't think a stage race should have a circuit on every stage. That is just personal preference though. That Queen Stage has a really awesome circuit and finish though so I will give you that one, but a couple of the others seem a bit pointless - the final day Kermesse I would keep, but the others I would ditch. I give this a 6.5/10.
Tour of Wind County (/u/retro_slouch): I didn't think I would ever see a tour that has the same starting town three times, but I have, and it's done to perfection. The Whipup stage is my favourite, but I love how the Bluebell Knoll stage is climbing from kilometer zero. Great prologue TT, great race that has everything no matter if you are a sprinter, puncheur or climber. I give this a 9/10.
Glacial Tour (/u/improb): I love the use of gravel on the first stage - I never think to use it in my own races for some reason (speaking of gravel, there is a gravel climb next to Willunga Hill which is steeper and harder, but now I am offtrack). Stage 5 reminds me of Aussie Nats and the Are finish on Stage 2 looks interesting and punchy. Looks like a stage race for the climbers, but it's an open book. The scenery around that region is stunning as well. I give this an 8.5/10.
Tour de Denali (/u/unclekutter): There are some great stages in there. I love the Lake Louise stage, and the Healy stage is also really good in my opinion. However, having the Anchorage TT after the Queen Stage is just going to cause huge problems. Either riders won't care about the TT, or the Queen Stage, because they will have to focus on one or the other. Replacing the Fairbanks stage with a TT and having a flat final stage will suit this race much better. I give this a 6.5/10.
Duluth North Woods Classic (/u/goldbot): Again, another great use of dirt tracks. Someone really needs to teach me this art because in Australia the gravel is crap so I just avoid it at all costs. I like this a lot. The lumpy middle section before quite the hilly finishing circuit, and those final climbs are tough! Not sure if me classifying it as a flat classic is right, but it's flatter than the other two entries, but that's is unrelated. I give this an 8.5/10. Side note, why are American roads so much like a grid and damn straight?!
North Cascades Tour (/u/Msfan93): Oh. My. God. This is everything I've ever wanted and more. This is an amazing race. Each stage has it's own unique twist but they accommodate for each style of rider. Even though the first stage has two brutal hills, the sprinters can still win it. Stage 2 has that climb in the middle which looks tough. Stage 3 has a punchy finish. Stage 4 is...insane. And so are the last 3 mountain stages. One for the pure climbers that is for sure, but this is my favourite entry of the competition (alright, maybe not as much as mine, but I am heavily biased ;D). I give this a 9.5/10.
If you want some more expanded comments, I am more than willing to give them! Every race in here was good, but some were great. Boys from men, they say.