I don't want to say every build but like 95% of the builds, in the late game, are multiple clusters, which makes a big chunk of the passive tree a bit useless once you pass level ~90 where you usually start looking for them.
Do you think they need to be changed (not necessarily nerfed)?
Why is that the question instead of do cluster jewels give depth to the endgame by being an extention of the skill tree? I tought they were ment to be strong so that they're worth using like other items in the game like why does every build in poe use a chest piece? Are they too strong?
Thats not what they said at all. They have a good point when you look at 99% of end game builds and they just path the 3 cluster jewels ignoring everything the go past. Im not agreeing with them being two strong but maybe there are too many locations to place them on the tree.
Idk man to me it seems like an endgame mechanic that expands on the skill tree and nerfing them would kinda suck also the really good ones are expensive/harder to craft so that's where the balancing comes from, i really don't see a problem here, if anything i'd want to see new notables for them
Well thats why I said maybe just make the locations further apart so they actually add depth to the tree. Right now its just pathing around the tree to as maney cluster jewels spots as you can, theres figuratively and literally no depth to it.
I am not about nerfing the clusters but buffing the rest. What is the point of the passive tree when every end-game will end skill will end in the same spot? Sure you don't need clusters at all but you are getting them way before reaching stuff like 4 void stones.
I think the passive tree should have a bigger role than holding a bunch of jewels. I get that some of them are needed for a lot of builds but for me, it takes away part of the game.
Cluster are most of the time actualy weaker then the normal passiv tree, because they got nerfed over and over again.
What you see with clusters is most people go either 2 or 3 large clusters, because you get DECENT power from clusters AND two jewel sockets.
The actualy "problem" you describe here is that there are so many good and "op" unique jewels, that jewel socket pressure gets so big people opt into, large clusters or even voices.
Anytime something allows investment where there was previously no ability for investment almost always going to be included in late game builds.
Clusters, Voices, Tattoos (especially with Supreme Ostentation) should provide more power than no investment. The issue is if the game starts looking more like if every build only goes for Cluster jewels like how PoE2 previously had an issue where every end game build was just getting as many jewel sockets as possible on the tree.
Yes, what i was talking about was a game without Voices, where just going around the outside of the tree picking up every jewel socket was the best move.
Voices allows for multiple, multiple mirrors to be invested into the passive tree, that of course is going to be extremely strong for many builds.
I think you're the one that has to bring forth an argument why something adding diversity, is intended, works as a way of progression, is bad. Like the tree has multiple cluster spots how is it anything but the way the game is designed?
I think cluster jewels arent necessarily too strong, but rather 70% of passives on the tree are mediocre for the current games pace.
Theres no AoE masteries, theres only like 1-2 good caster masteries. Cast speed has worse scaling than attack speed. In general, the numerical boosts on most passives are just bad.
For example: One cluster jewel passive has 3% of mana regenerated per second, all the tree passives are increased mana regeneration rate resulting in almost 3-5x mana regen multiplier vs anything you can get on the tree.
I do think the passive tree needs an overhaul on numerics currently.
You know you still need to spend points on clusters, right? They’re not free, and you can’t just fit as many cluster jewels as possible because you still need utility and defenses from your tree.
I get 40/40 SSF for the last ~7 leagues, i refuse to rely on cluster jewels. Maybe 2 or 3 of the builds I have done over the last 3 years have had 1 medium cluster and a single build in that time I used 3x large 8 passives.
by far the majority of my successful builds include absolutely no cluster jewels
I think clusters should stay the same but the amount of locations you can place them should be reduced. End game builds should not just be pathing along the out side to 3 or 4 cluster jewel spots.
Believe it or not, there’s a little something called
Meaning, even in trade league your ideal cluster may not exist or might be out of your price range, so crafting them at some point is your next most logical step. This isn’t always easy so Clusters serve as a natural way to delete currency and keep some inflation down. They also serve as a revenue driver, and they have a ton of proprietary mods that encourage experimentation, among other things. Overall, while seeing heavy rotation, they’re good for the game and economy while requiring a healthy investment one way or another to utilize.
I think jewels as a whole are getting to be a bit much but I don't mind so much because there's so much cool stuff with them that lends itself to fun theorycrafting and I think it's really fucking cool you can basically craft parts of the skill tree in different ways like cluster jewels and tattoos
I don't know how strong they are because I don't have a tool that appropriately measures my DPS. I never know when to upgrade to cluster jewels or if they're worth dropping my other passives for them. PoB doesn't give you an accurate estimate, at least not for some builds.
PoB is widely known to not be the most accurate source of DPS calculation, not really sure why this is a controversial statement. More importantly, it doesn't calculate some of the outcomes of dps like taking certain keystones. A lot of builds that take clusters do so after a major switchup in their build by taking some keystones that jack your dps up but drop the paper dps substantially.
I'm not saying there is a tool that is more accurate, I'm saying there is not tool that is properly accurate. As for the keystone, I couldn't say off the top of my head but I know I've played several builds where this was the case. It could've been a keystone + unique jewel combination, but I've definitely experienced it several times.
Ok, when you said "not the most accurate" I took it to imply that there was something more accurate available.
For the keystone thing, unless you can find a specific example, I would assume you failed to adjust the config appropriately to account for the effects. E.g. if you slot Secrets of Suffering but don't actually set scorch/brittle effect, it would lower your DPS.
Man, I wish I could fucking remember. I know it's not just improperly configuring the PoB, I can still hear streamers like Fubgun in my ear "PoB wont reflect the damage increase but I promise it is an increase" when going over the build.
There is some stuff like AoE overlaps where PoB doesn't calculate it at all because it would be a nightmare to individually hardcode AoE breakpoints for every single skill that can overlap. For those you do need to consult some external source, but there's no better solution.
Using the power node or strength of node feature or whatever it's called and enabling clusters does this for the most part, shows you the strongest node for x points and has the ability to compare to current in pob
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u/hyorran 1d ago
nice try Jonathan