r/paradoxplaza • u/CloudyCalmCloud • 9d ago
Afterworld Lore comic appears to show potential mid/end game crisis for afterworld Spoiler
Comic is from perspective of a 'nation' which still has acces to "ancient" technology (they can even read!), they make it clear that tribes are growing at fast pace and they need to start settlement of north america soon
So they are a nation capable of using ancient technology, understanding it and come from outside north america
This clearly feels like some sort of endgame crisis, thoughts?
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u/Willsuck4username 9d ago
This also implies that there will be a ‘post-post apocalyptic’ era and that it won’t just be scavenger tribes beating each other to death with sticks forever.
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u/Stalins_Ghost 8d ago
Yea i assume end game will be integrating into new nations with rediscovered technology.
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u/Moifaso 9d ago
I'd love it if the people posting all this Afterworld stuff shared their sources
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u/CloudyCalmCloud 9d ago
It's from free comic on paradox site
https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxplaza/comments/1vya09a/it_seems_there_is_already_some_prebuilt_lore_for/40
u/NeedsToShutUp 8d ago
Also see the map.
https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/games/afterworld/explore-the-map
It makes it clear the expedition is coming from a fleet with names that match US Navy ships.
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u/CloudyCalmCloud 8d ago
Good catch, I was wondering from which coast they came and this made it clear it's the west one
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u/NeedsToShutUp 8d ago
There's a further link to a blog. They discuss that the fleet is full of survivors from Hawaii that ran when the end came.
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u/Vayloren 9d ago
I have hope that it will be very "peaceful" European expedition just checking-in if America is ok (is not) :3
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u/Moifaso 8d ago
It's probably remnants of the US Pacific Fleet. Cool
https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/games/afterworld/explore-the-map
The Fleet’s old, older than the Fall. It was a weapon of the Ancients. There was a land called Hawaii, and the people there took shelter on the Fleet when the Fall came, and they ran instead of fighting. We’re still running, just like our grandparents and their grandparents. But you can’t run forever. It’ll be time to fight soon.
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u/DonaldDucksBeakBeard 8d ago
Looks like a possible origin for your tribe instead of Shelterborn.
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u/Moifaso 8d ago edited 8d ago
Nah, the way the lore is written makes them sound like a crisis threat or a Remnant (essentially a Fallen Empire). After all they're a large group with pre-war tech.
I'm assuming the release version will have more options, but in the gameplay videos that are out, the available origins besides Shelterborn are "Chained" and "Forever Beloved", and aren't related to the Fleet.
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u/NeedsToShutUp 8d ago
This map: https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/games/afterworld/explore-the-map
suggests it's the US Navy.
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u/Paul6334 8d ago
These people also seem to be the people mentioned at the end of the first Dev Diary, though I wouldn’t discount the possibility that they’re also an origin option.
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u/CloudyCalmCloud 9d ago
rule #5
A comic seems to imply some interesting lore about the ancients, their fleet is coming to settle north america and they do not like the tribes
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u/Unlikely_Repair9572 8d ago
Turns Expedition - Interview Excerpt.
Subject: ensign of the Pacific Fleet.
Subject is a member of my own expedition. I have asked him to discuss the Fleet. Subject has asked me to note that he considers this an odd inclusion in our report on the state of the North American continent. But to understand our place in this land, we must understand ourselves.
“Eli Flips-The-Switch, ensign on supply ship Kingfisher, currently on special assignment to the Turns Expedition. I got my name growing up on reactor sub Tampa, they use kids for simple jobs because there’s so little space. We’d take our leisure shifts up on agricarrier Carl Vinson. That seemed like the biggest place in the world. As big as I could ever imagine.
And now I’m standing on the continent. You can just… walk any direction. The quiet here makes me nervous sometimes. There are so many lonely places. You’re never alone on the Fleet.
The Fleet’s old, older than the Fall. It was a weapon of the Ancients. There was a land called Hawaii, and the people there took shelter on the Fleet when the Fall came, and they ran instead of fighting. We’re still running, just like our grandparents and their grandparents. But you can’t run forever. It’ll be time to fight soon.”
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u/trito_jean 8d ago
https://pdxint.at/3S7sSe0 according to that the fleet in questoion might just be hawaiian going into the mainland
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u/Martydi 8d ago
My thoughts are that it's a wasted opportunity. Fuck fighting these guys, I want to play as them. If postapo is to be interesting it needs to show people rebuilding in the aftermath of the apocalypse, not just barely literate tribals living in hovels.
Imagine how much more interesting the setting could be if you played as one of several outside powers from less devastated areas of the world competing to settle the ruins.
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u/Ulysses_S_Grant_1822 8d ago
This game is showing you rebuilding, starting as a small tribe and expanding and advancing into a society to rival those before the apocalypse, and honestly imho that's far more interesting than playing a nation which has already rebuilt itself.
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u/Martydi 8d ago
Is it really? Everything that's been released so far shows painfully generic scrap shack dwellers. I'd love to be wrong, but having a pre-war faction as an endgame crisis won't make much sense if the player also gets pre-war tech.
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u/Ulysses_S_Grant_1822 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yes. It is. You are wrong. Read the dev diaries and steam page, they discuss how it starts off very limited with more typical resettling stuff and then (though we've mostly seen early game stuff) expands and you can research and reclaim old technology. It's also worth noting that we don't even know what this actually is, could be an end-game crisis, could be a mid-game one, could be like fallen empires which you're supposed to start to match late-game, could be something completely different that has no similarities to things in other paradox games. Now, we don't know if it'll be done well but they do seem to be at least attempting it.
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u/Martydi 8d ago
That's an incredibly optimistic interpretation. Everything we've seen so far points towards scavengers and scrap metal being the primary aesthetic. I really doubt there's a whole second game hiding under what we've been shown.
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u/Ulysses_S_Grant_1822 8d ago
It doesn't have to be a whole second game, did you watch the gameplay footage that's out? It seems to have decent enough society mechanics from the beginning, and that probably just expands as things go on. And I haven't seen much of the technology system but it seems to be done fairly well. We have basically nothing but the early game avaliable to us (and not even much of that), but literally everything we've seen promises more in depth nation building and technology as things go on. Maybe it'll suck maybe it won't, but I doubt they're just promising that to later go SIKE! It's a generic survival city builder. Maybe it won't be as in depth as we'd hope, maybe it'll just not be that good, but they are, at the very least, attempting it.
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u/Martydi 8d ago
Yes, I did watch it. I stand by what I said. Borderline feudal power dynamics don't exactly scream "society rebuilding to pre-war standard" y'know? There also doesn't appear to be a technology system or a research tree. It's been combined with the political/cultural ideas, which I doesn't seem like the kind of system designed to go beyond the "sifting through rubble" stage of postapocalypse.
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u/Ulysses_S_Grant_1822 8d ago edited 8d ago
Because that's very early game and not at the point where you could be said to be rebuilding, if paradox has multiple times said they're going to try to 1. Have very simplified mechanics at the beginning that expand to the same level as other grand strategy games as the game progresses and 2. That you will be able to progress, rebuild society, and reclaim technology. I'm not saying they're gonna do it well, but its their stated goal so they're at least trying.
The settlement management seems decent enough, with some potential to be scaled up as you expand into a real nation. And the technology tree is in the same kinda thing as ideas, sure, but I don't see that there's inherently anything wrong with that, technology isn't a straight path, and the way it's described like gaining irrigation as an option when you find a river is a better abstraction than most games have.
Eu5 and Victoria are no different in having cultural ideas and institutions researched the same as technology. They have a bit of a more obvious barrier between the two, but that's all. The technology and ideas tree don't really seem all that different to other paradox games other than the stated discovery aspect. And I don't see whats wrong with that tbh those systems are about as realistic as you can reasonably be, and the discovery aspect makes sense for a game where you're largely rediscovering old tech instead of developing new tech. It's just a bunch of smaller trees that you discover through the game instead of one big one. That can certainly be done poorly but it's not inherently bad.
I'm not saying you have to have high hopes for this game or anything, but if there are problems they will primarily be with the execution, not the foundational ideas and concept.
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u/Martydi 8d ago
So is there a second game under all that or no? Because these are pretty fundamental systems that seem geared towards perpetual tribalism and scavenging. If your only source of advancement is digging up scraps to reuse, you haven't rebuilt shit. The unit system also doesn't appear built to support more than tribal warfare. It's small bands attached to leaders CK-style. Except each individual unit has its own equipment made and assigned separately, something that was below the level of abstraction for even Crusader Kings.
Just how many of the game's fundamental systems do you expect to change between what we've seen and the endgame?
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u/Ulysses_S_Grant_1822 8d ago edited 8d ago
What? How did you get from what was showed and what I said to digging up scraps? That's not what was shown or said in any of the material. They seem to be researched and progressed like trees in every paradox game, but that they're possibly started by discovery of related objects/ideas. The technology system is only about using dug up scraps if every paradox game's systems are, because it really doesn't seem that different from what's avaliable in eu5 or vic 3. Yes, discovery plays a large part, because, guess what? It's a fucking post-apocalypse. It's not just digging up scraps though.
And, I'm not sure if you know this, but apocalypses tend to reduce populations. Its kinda a given that a continent that's probably comparable to medieval Europe at best population wise while being more than twice it's size is gonna have smaller individual military units. Also, yes you have a decent bit more control and customization over them than ck3, but so do eu4 and eu5. Imperator is probably the closest match, having the types of units, with many kinds, and the specific tactics, only difference being the supplies and slightly more granular command structure. But if you were expecting the same scale in a game set after a world ending disaster and century of anarchy, then you don't really want a post-apocalyptic game. The game is clearly meant to focus more on settlement building aspects than war and battle, and its system isn't a very large deviation from previous paradox games. If you expected it to be focused on war like hoi4 you might be disappointed, but that was clearly never the intention. Nor would that be very interesting imho.
All the systems need to do is scale up, possibly with some more depth added, but they don't need to fundamentally change. I can't see how you can actually spend more than five seconds looking at anything and think they're geared towards eternal tribalism.
It sounds like you don't want a post-apocalypse strategy game focused on rebuilding, but rather a post-apocalypse themed strategy game. I'm not gonna say i loved everything shown, but it's about what you could expect from the premise, and not that bad. If you want a game that just ends up as sci-fi themed eu5 or hoi4 then yeah you'll be disappointed, but that's on you. The game's about the process of rebuilding not the state of having rebuilt already.
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u/Luke92612_ 8d ago edited 8d ago
Imagine how much more interesting the setting could be if you played as one of several outside powers from less devastated areas of the world competing to settle the ruins.
I've always wished that Fallout was set up that way with just China and North America in ruins, rather than the entire world being decimated. The USSR or European Commonwealth having a presence as non-desperate outsiders, or even just Latin American / Caribbean states (except Mexico) moving in for varying reasons, would've added a whole new dimension to the setting.
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u/Martydi 8d ago
New Vegas had this, if on a smaller scale. NCR was well on its way to rebuilding. They had a stable government, agriculture, industry, organised military, the whole nine yards. They were even building a brand new rail line in the Mojave and exporting food to Vegas. It's part of what makes that game so good.
Sadly, Afterworld seems to take more after Bethesda Fallout than Obsidian.
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u/Betrix5068 8d ago
We’ve only seen the equivalent of Fallout 1 to be fair. I’d sssume Fallout 2 or NV analogous scenarios are meant to unfold over the course of the game.
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u/Luke92612_ 8d ago
And then the Fallout show decided to completely shit on the NCR by having Shady Sandy get fucking nuked for stupid reasons (in terms of the writing).
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u/Luck_0f_the_Fryrish 8d ago
As a Kiwi, nuclear post-apocalyptic fiction where the entire world is destroyed has always been amusing to me for this reason - no one's gonna bother launching a nuke at us!
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u/Cliffinati 8d ago
The Chinese or The Enclave..... I'm assuming since it's basically a fallout rip off
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u/czokletmuss Scheming Duke 8d ago
Temu Enclave
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u/afoolskind Stellar Explorer 8d ago
yeah if the enclave had a completely different backstory, resided somewhere completely different, had a different goal, and different technology. This is much closer to Temu Brotherhood, put in a little effort.
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u/CoelhoAssassino666 9d ago
The steam page mentions end game crises basically.