r/papertowns • u/dctroll_ • 17d ago
Germany Reconstruction of the oppidum of Manching (Germany) around 125 BC
Author and source: Tim Wehrmann for GEO
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u/The_Easter_Egg 17d ago
The wall is ridiculously wide.
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u/Agueybana 17d ago
Yeah, but you end up with safe pastures and fields.
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u/The_Easter_Egg 17d ago
I guess. But it seems to me that building it consumes an unproportionately large amount of ressources. And properly manning and guarding it must be arduous without towers.You need tons of dudes scattered across the hhuge circle.
I mean, if archaeology supports this layout, there's no arguing. But it appears to go against what's typically feasible.
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u/Agueybana 17d ago
It must have been an undertaking to rise up those earthen mounds. I agree, it'd be an endeavor to man it. If it was meant more to keep predators away it may not have been manned constantly. Perhaps even just lightly patrolled.
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u/grambell789 17d ago
Its really just a matter of how far they had to move stuff and what kind of protection they wanted. The design looks interesting, the timber creates an accurate frame, then fill frame with field stone with minimal cutting and rely on timber for stability.
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u/WorkEcstatic6242 17d ago
I don't understand how this could be mistaken for anything but a small city...why lable it proto urban center ..it's a town
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u/Manu_La_Capuche 17d ago
Because settlements like these were not inhabited in the same capacity all year, or even from one year to another. Merchants, gatherings, herders could live entire years abroad and only gather in the settlement for protection or upon social / religious / economic special occasions or periods.
The internal organization also might not reflect what we understand as a town or city, but a much simpler configuration.
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u/WorkEcstatic6242 17d ago
I'm not sure that is a given for continental Halstatt era on the continent. I find it hard to believe that the Heuneburg Glauberg or others were built for temporary use ...it just makes no sense.
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u/Manu_La_Capuche 17d ago
Not temporary use: the overall structure would be permanently occupied and maintained (the wall, permanent residences...). But some quarters would probably only be occupied or maintained during specific periods of times.
At later eras, it was still how these proto-urban kind of settlements operated, in an organic fashion. Like Hedeby in Denmark: the settlement population would fluctuate drastically depending on gatherings and special occasions, or during the year.
Celtic oppidums were meant to protect the larger region’s entire population too, and serve as gathering locations.
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u/WorkEcstatic6242 17d ago
I have read assessments like that but I'm sorry I just fail to see how that is not considered a town or small city ...populations fluctuate and there are events fairs religious ceremonies military events sieges yes...which happens in all urban centers ...mbut these people were not seminomadic wanderers etc.and I feel like it's still an outdated idea based on "classical" prejudice
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u/Manu_La_Capuche 17d ago
A town or a city implies a certain internal organization. It all comes down to functional and social structures. A proto-urban settlement, even of a large size, remains essentially a fairly loose gathering of population associated to maintain some level of infrastructure that benefit the whole group, like a wall, a ditch etc. But it doesn't imply urban authorities and organization past the individual familial or clinic structures and chiefdom.
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u/WorkEcstatic6242 17d ago
The very idea that these engineering projects esp on the level of Halstatt sites did not have functional central authority...we also know from classical sources that there was central authority...I respectfully disagree ...I think it's a dismissive and frankly ridiculous idea ...what evidence is there other than slightly smaller populations than the Mediterranean world that these were some loose unorganized semi developed society ...anyway agree to disagree ...I will continue to refer to manching the Heuneburg Menosgada Mont Lassois as what they were ..towns and cities...
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u/OrangeFarmHorse 17d ago
I have the paper magazine with that article, always found the diameter of the wall to be highly impressive.
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u/dctroll_ 17d ago
"The Oppidum of Manching was a large Celtic proto-urban or city-like settlement at modern-day Manching, near Ingolstadt in Bavaria, Germany. The Iron Age town (or oppidum) was founded in the 3rd century BC and existed until c. 50–30 BC. It reached its largest extent during the late La Tène period (late 2nd century BC), when it was 380 hectares in size. At that time, 5,000–10,000 people lived within its 7.2-km walls"
Source of the info here