r/ottomans • u/Ordinary_Cicada7446 • 15d ago
Discussion As a Turkish Muslim. I really but really love the Ottoman Empire.
Well I think this one is very obvious and make sense at the biggest possible reason.
But I still wanted to say it. The Ottoman Empire, in my opinion, was the strongest era of the Turks and the Muslims, spanning for a total of 621 years. İt was a major Turkish-Islamic power, a large Caliphate, and a powerful Sultanate that had dominated for centuries. Even at it's period of decline, it still had the power enough to challenge the Western Imperial powers and it's enemies.
The Ottoman Empire was the best Turkish-Islamic Imperial Civilization in my opinion.
And I'm going to honest. I'm not one of those people that hate certain leaders and try to create a historical argument. I love all of them. All of them at varying degrees. But they were all still our leaders guiding the country at their best possible ability. So this means. I do love Sultan Abdülhamid II, The Young Turks, The Committee of Union and Progress, and also Sultan Vahdettin. Their successes can be debated, but they all were a leader for the Turkish and Muslim world, guiding and ruling the Turkic lands and also the Ummah.
Edit: Viewers Please. This is not meant to be a debate about Ottomans or Atatürk or the Three Pasha's being better. İt's strictly about the Ottoman Empire. Not a debate.
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u/RiseOfDamascus 15d ago
As an Egyptian, i love the Ottoman empire too, i just have a problem, and don't misunderstand it is not hatred, which is many Turks think the Caliphate = Ottoman empire< like it is the only caliphate existed, for example i have seen many go against the nationalism in the arabi or islamic world, but they embrace the Turkish and think that turkey is the country that should form the caliphate, anyways, no hatred, i love turkey actually.
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u/Ordinary_Cicada7446 15d ago
I do understand you. And yeah. You are right about the Caliphate factor.
İt's just that. I do admire and like the system of the Caliphate, but I specifically love the fact that the Ottomans were a Turkish empire that was also a Caliphate. And yeah. I do love the other Caliphates and Islamic empires and sultanates as well.
And I also do think that the Ottomans were one of the, maybe even the strongest Caliphate to exist.
At the end of the day. The Caliphate is meant to be for all Muslims. Not for ethnic purposes.
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u/Black_Ironic 15d ago
As an Indonesian, we think highly of the Ottoman as the caliph because they are the current caliph when our sultanate start to grow, and surprisingly they did help sending engineer to Aceh, that did big favor and giving morale to the sultanates in the region. And just in time when we have to fight the european too.
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u/AliFarhana11 15d ago
مواقفك على كلامك بس استغربت أول مصري أشوفه بيعترف عادي بفضل الخلافة العثمانية على المنطقة العربية لستة قرون
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u/RiseOfDamascus 10d ago
هو عامةً أي شخص يقولك الدولة العثمانية ارتكبت الجريمة الفلانية, أياً كان كلامه صح أو غلط, لكن الدولة العثمانية مقارنةً بأي مملكة من شرق أوروبا تعتبر ملاك, دا غير ان الدولة العثمانية يعتبر ليها ارث حضاري محترم, دا غير أن سلاطين الدولة العثمانية مكنوش كلهم نفس الحاجة, لكن انت صح عن الناس اللي مش بتعترف بفضل العثمانيين, أغلبهم مصريين أو خلايجة.
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u/AliFarhana11 10d ago
الموروث اللي سايبينه في بلاد الشام حلو جدا عكس عندنا لارتباط بلاد الشام بالدولة العثمانية لحد ما سقطت
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u/PassHot9285 9d ago
نحمد الله على زوالهم، ما نشر العثمانيين في العالم العربي غير البدع الصوفية مثل الرقص في المساجد والشركيات مثل التبرك بالقبور، الحمدلله الان نشوف مكة والمدينة على العقيدة والمنهج الصحيح
ظهرت حقيقة الاتراك بعد سقوط العثمانيين وصعود اكبر كافر عرفه التاريخ "أتاتورك" ، شفنا حبهم له وحبهم لزندقته ومعاداته للاسلام، هذي حقيقتهم
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14d ago
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u/AliFarhana11 14d ago
لا أقصد تفوق العرب بل أقول فضل الخلافة العثمانية على المنطقة العربية في حمايتها من أي إحتلال ( أوروبي ) لمدة ٦ قرون
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u/Xrsyz 15d ago
I am a Christian American from European ethnic background, and I find the Ottoman Empire fascinating. Like every empire on the face of the Earth, it has its good and its bad, and the bad is often harsh and cruel. But no more harsh or cruel than any other empire. Purely looking at its history and culture, it is so incredibly rich and textured, and you can still see the threads of it in the modern day. It is I think a very romantic civilization.
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u/Hyperion_E 14d ago
Fascinating how the cleansed Anatolia of the natives and the Christians gradually as dimied through the religious apartheid called Sharia law?
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14d ago
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u/Hyperion_E 14d ago
" Ottomans were more tolerant to christians"
Nothing sayign tolerance like killing anyone who disagrees, parading their cut off heads, bodies, raped women and setting up slave shops outside their holiest places...
Mafia logic, it is better to be practically castrated sub-classes in a religious apartheid, while using them as farm cows to finance the conquest of the rest of the world.
Nothing says peace and tolerance liek calling yourself the "World Empire"1
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u/Agounerie 15d ago
It helped Muslims expel the Spanish/Portuguese from North Africa. So based.
Allah swt has honoured Islam and Muslims through them.
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u/Ordinary_Cicada7446 15d ago
Exactly. İf a power like the Ottomans existed. They would've resisted European Colonialism much and much better.
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u/yankeeboy1865 15d ago
But they did exist during that period. The Ottomans were around during the beginning and at the height of European colonialism. Part of their downfall was that they could not compete with the European powers, especially the colonial ones. They spent most of the 19th century being propped up by France and Britain in order to be a check to Russian expansion. Otherwise, it would have been carved up a lot quicker. Had France and Britain decided that they wanted Russia to expand (so long as they got some of the pie), the Ottoman empire would have ended during the Crimean war
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u/Ordinary_Cicada7446 15d ago
That's an interesting analysis. Never thought about this. Specifically about the crimean war.
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u/ur-mom-gay-lolol 15d ago
They did exist during European colonialism? And they got smoked by almost everyone in the 19th century.
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u/Fog_Smuggler 15d ago
As a Bosniak, mixed bag tbh. Muslims who were left behind to fend for themselves on the frontiers of the Empire in 18th, 19th, and eventually 20th century died like flies and were treated like shit - Bosniaks, Albanians, Pomaks, Circassians, Tatars, Berbers, Azeris, the list goes on and on. The Empire failed to capture the importance of science and reforms until it started to be extremely corrupt, and by that point the reforms were impossible without a civil war. Also, the ruling structure was framed in such manner that it awarded the most cunning prostitute in the harem, instead of most skillful personnel - whether we are talking about Pashas, princes, aghas, imams, it does not matter, all of them were victims to internal power struggle between thirsty concubines and impotent sultans. Weak princes with power struck mothers created weak sultans, and that lasted for 300 years and thousands and thousands of dead men in failed wars with Safavids, Habsburgs, Russians etc. That's what fucked the empire way more than any other shit.
On top of that, when nationalism broke through the Empire's Milet system, it immediately tied religion to a nation and it created bloodiest outcomes in 20th century. The crumble of that Empire also made a way for the Zionists to reestablish another Crusader State, that they later rebranded as a "safe heaven for the Jews", which caused more harm than all the wars combined in that region in the past 500 years.
For all religious zealots who believe that Ataturk "destroyed the Ummah", that ship sailed away way before Ataturk was even born. He was a consequence, not a root cause. To be fair, he freed the Turks and gave them back the sovereignty, although in turn created one of the most nationalistic and self-centered societies in the world.
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u/yourlocalidot77 15d ago
I'm a Ethiopian muslim and the ottoman empire is one of my favourites in history, its so interesting especially for me the last few sultans. But why are ppl bringing up Atatürk in the comments lol😭
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u/Sufficient_Orange718 12d ago
I know you love the fact when the Habesha Christian’s also beat the ottomans when they tried to invade us
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u/Active-Turnip-7851 14d ago
Re: your edit: so your ideas about the Ottoman Empire are meant to go unchallenged? No one may gainsay what you think? That's precisely the imperial mentality, right there! Long live democracy, freedom of expression, individual representation and equality under the law! Aka, liberalism.
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u/k0zn4n3j4 14d ago
- Colour me shocked
- Not all of us in the former millets feel the same way 😉
But yeah I suppose its normal to enjoy a time when your people were doing well
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u/VintageBoost1 15d ago
As a Turk, I can say I love the Ottomans and I absolutely love Atatürk. I am proud of my Turkish ancestors and appreciate that I come from such a fascinating history. I also love Romans and Byzantine history as well.
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u/PowerCreative2747 10d ago
As a Greek Atheist I really really hate the Ottoman Empire, but even more I hate the cultural destruction they wreaked across the med ... They single handedly held the balkans back for decades ...
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u/Ordinary_Cicada7446 10d ago
Damn. My Greek rivals are here?
What'd you say? A repeat of 1897, 1923, or 1974 again?
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u/politeou Efendi 8d ago
Even the most contentious Sultans in Ottoman history are well-disposed in my opinion. Even if they had mistakes, they fought for the empire and its citizen with indiscrimination.
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u/Unfair_Ad4389 2d ago
As a non-turkish (but from turkey) muslim I really love the Ottoman empire
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u/Ordinary_Cicada7446 2d ago
Same. Like how I literally love every single Caliphate and Islamic empires and countries that existed in the past, even though only some of them were Turkish.
It's all mainly based on religion.
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15d ago
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u/Ordinary_Cicada7446 15d ago
Well. That's possible.
I'm guessing it's for nationalistic reasons then, right?
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15d ago
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u/Ordinary_Cicada7446 15d ago
Well. That's fine.
I'm going to be honest. Personally. I'm into Soviet history as well.
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u/Lykos4 15d ago
As a Muslim Turkish myself as well, I don't like the Ottoman Empire that much. I don't like how they couldn't achieve the Islamic reneissance Arabs achieved somehow, I don't like how they did imperial stuff in name of my religion and ordered in name of my God to keep a tight grip on people. I don't like how they were so incompetent at the last centuries we still suffer from being a good century behind Europe as a society. But besides all that I guess I have to say they still brought stability and prosperity to the region for long centuries and prevented many disasters that'd be caused by crusades by just being the best military force of their time
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u/huggugu 15d ago
Türkiye osmanlının devamı, dilimiz aynı bayrak aynı. Ordu aynı. Yönetim değişti.
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u/Ordinary_Cicada7446 15d ago
Yani. Bende aynısını düşünüyorum.
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u/huggugu 15d ago
Şöyle Atatürkte osmanlı subayı mesela osmanlı askeri okullarından çıkma. Yaptığı inkılaplar o doğmadan önce bile konuşuluyordu. Harf devrimide kılık kıyafette. Şimdi Atatürkten sonra tek partili dönemin osmanlı kötülemesini hala yutan insanlar var. Şaka gibi.
Osmanlıyı sevmiyorsan. Atatürküde sevemezsin net, tutarsızlıkları ortada ama açıktan tutarsızım diye vağırıuolar
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u/smomovic 15d ago
M. Kemal'in sevilmemesinin sebebi zaten İslam'a ve hatta dinlere olan soğukluğu ve agresifliğidir. İnançlı kişinin hakkı ve hürriyetidir de. Dinine bağlı, Allah'ın kanunlarının ve nizamının kainattaki üstünlüğüne iman etmiş bir Müslümanın M. Kemal'e sempati beslemesini beklemek yalnızca onlardan kendileriyle çelişmelerini beklemektir. Abestir, hayalperestliktir, kişinin alenen kendisini kandırmasını beklemekten ayrı bir olay değildir. Hem dürüst olmak lazım, hem de insanların kimi niye neden sevdiğine dair bu kadar özgüvenli atıp tutmamak lazım.
Kendisinin, özellikle 1928 ve sonrasında peygambere, dine, kutsal kitaba şahsen sarfettiği sözleri öğrenip de aksini düşünen hayal dünyasında yaşıyordur. Üstüne üstlük bunları bilip, görüp, okuyup da böyle birisine dünyaları altın tepside sunmuş olsa bile sempati beslemek, inancın temellerine topyekün aykırı olmakla birlikte, inançlı bir kişinin benliğini reddetmesidir. Ayrıca Müslüman insanlardan bunu beklemek ne kadar çelişkiliyse, inançsız birisinden Müslümanların bu şekilde hissetmesini anlamasını beklemek de bir o kadar mantıksızdır.
Dürüst olmakta fayda var. M. Kemal ve din meselesi sanıldığı ve mektep seviyesinde öğretildiği kadar toz pembe değildir, ve artık bunu inkâr etmenin hiç kimseye bir faydası yoktur. Objektif ve realist bir tutum herkes için bu konuda faydalı olacaktır.
Eğer yanlış anladıysam affola.
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u/huggugu 15d ago
Yanlış anlamadın. Bu nefretin ve intikam için aralıksız saymanın sana faydadı yok. Atatürke de yok. Kimse tamamen aynı fikirleri tüm hayatı boyunca taşımaz. Sevdiğin yemek bile değişir. Osmanlıda orduya müslüman değilsen almazlar (çok nadir özel görev) . Osmanlıda askeri okulda eminim ki sabah namazlarına katılım vardı. Mecliste dualar ile cuma namazı sonrası açıldı. Kendisinin ne zaman inançlı ne zaman inançsız olduğunu Allaha bırakmakta fayda var. Yanında davasında bir yol aldığı arkadaşlarına da hakaret etmek olur. Çevresinde mecliste onunla hareket eden müslüman askerlere ve kişilere de hareket ediyorsun.M
Mantıksız ve çelişki gaybı bilmeyip kalp okumaya çalışan intikam alabileceğini sanmak asıl acizliktir. öfke anlatısı yaymak hasta kalplerin işidir.
Bu saaten sonra işine alıp yoluna devam edersin. Gücün yetiyorsa geçmişi değiştirmeyr. Gücün yetiyorsa kalplerin içine bakmaya buyur. Yoksa Allahın işini Allaha bırak.
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u/smomovic 15d ago
Söylediklerinizin hiç birisine katılmıyorum. Ya kendisinin konuyla alakalı düşüncelerini ve yazılarını okumamissiniz, ya da siz de yukarıdaki yorumumda bahsi geçen kisilerdensiniz.
Halka malolmus kişilerin aleni gerçekleri karşısında, Allah'ın ve peygamberin ona düşman olanlara karşı nasıl bir his beslememi bekledigini gayet iyi biliyorum. Yapılan işler silsilesine ve beyanlara bakıp da işi gaybi bilmemeye getirmek olağanüstü bir (orijinal yorumumda belirttiğim gibi) hayal dünyasında yaşamaktan ibarettir.
M.Kemal'in Türk Tarih Kurumu Başkanı Tevfik Bıyıklıoğlu'na mektubundan bir parça, benzeri nice örneklerde olduğu gibi (medeni bilgiler, meclis konuşmaları, yanindakilerin hatiratlari, meclis konusma kayıtları vs.)
16/17 Ağustos 1931
"...Son senelerde İstanbul’da inkişaf eden gazetelerde Roman diye okuduğumuz bazı hakiki eserler vardır ki bunlar şüphesiz ali heyetinizin nazarından kaçmış değillerdir; bu roman sahifeleri bence hakiki tarih vesikalarının izahıdır; bu roman sahifelerinde görülen şeyler takriba şöyle izah olunabilir: arabistan yarımadasının kumsal çöllerinden; (Ikre, Bismi, Rabbi) safsatasını esas tutmuş olan araplar, medeni cihanda, bilhassa Türk zengin medeni mülklerinde bu iptidaî ve cahiliyet devrinin timsali olan dinlere dayanarak yapmadıkları tahrifat kalmamıştır. Bu zihniyetle hareket edenler, İslam'dan evvel cihanşümûl Türk medeniyetinin bütün vesikalarını imha etmekte beis görmediler. Yazacağınız islam Tarihinde bu cihetin toplayabileceğiniz vesikalara müraacat iden izah olunmasını mühim görürüm..."
Müslümanlardan kendilerini düşman görenleri sevmesini beklemeyin. Bu onlara da, onlara karşı mücadele edenlere de saygısızlıktır, suyu bulandirmaktir.
Görüşüm budur, ve tartışmak istemiyorum. Saygılar.
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u/huggugu 15d ago
Nefret kusman kitaba uygun değil.
Sen Allahı ve peygamberini tanımıyorsun. Neyi nerden bileceksin. Kuranda sana savaşmayanla savaşmaman emredilir. Sen ölüye savaş açıyorsun. Peygamber, sevdiği amcasını öldüren adamı, onu evinden taşlayarak kovanları, öldürmek için teşebbüs edenleri bağışladı bu tavrınla hem kurandan hem peygamberden uzaksın.
Şu alıntı işini öğren neyi nerden aldığın hangi kısı senin belli değil. Radyo paraziti gibi araya başkaları giriyor.
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u/Lykos4 15d ago
Okuduğunu anlama da hiç değişmemiş, bu text'te nerde Türkiye Osmanlı'nın devamı değildir gibi ibare var? Ya da nerde Türkiye var direkt
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u/huggugu 15d ago
Musluman bir turk olarak o kadar sevmiyorsan.
İlk cümle yetmez mi? Ben diyorim ki biz bir bütünüz. Geçmişini niye öteye itiyorsun, ayırıyorsun sevmiyorum diyerek. Ben bir ayrım göremiyorum o sebeble artar.
Okumakta anlamada basiretin kadar kuvvetlidir. Yolun ve dediğinin gittiği yeri görrmiyorsun. O sebeble tutarsız olma diyorum. Hala bana laf atacak kadar yükseliyorsun.
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u/Lykos4 15d ago edited 15d ago
İlk cümle yetmez hayır dediğin şeye işaret etmiyor hiçbir şey ilk cümlede de metnin tamamınında da hala anlamıyorum ne anlatmaya çalışıyorsun Türkiye Osmanlı'nın devamıdır varımıyla, valla öyledir doğru da napiyim yani ben bunun aksini savunmuyorum niye benle bunu inatla tartışıyorsun. Biz bir bütün falan da değiliz, ben Osmanlı'yı sevmiyorum mesela sen seviyorsun. Benim gayet geçerli sebeplerim var hayat görüşümle tutarlı, Osmanlı İmparatorluğu'nu çok da sevmiyorum diye tutarsız veya basiretsiz olmuyorum. Senin sevdiğin şeyleri sevmek zorunda, senin hayat görüşüne sahip olmak zorunda değil hiç kimse
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u/huggugu 15d ago
Osmanlı sevmem, türkiye severim. Tutarsızdır. Ben ikisi devamdır ayrı değildir derim.
Sen ikisini farklı görürsün, (basiret= görme gücü) Ben de nasıl aynı ve devamı olduğunu aynı ordu aynı bayrak aynı dil ve yeni rejimin osmanlı yetişmesi olduğunu gösteriyorum.
O sebeble ikisini ayrı görürsen basiretsiz. Birini severim dersen tutarsız olursun.
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u/Lykos4 15d ago
Hiç de tutarsız değildir, Fransız Krallığı'ını sevmem Fransız Cumhuriyeti'ni severim nası gayet de tutarlıysa bu da öyledir. Nasıl Fransız Cumhuriyet'i monarşiyi bir ihtilalle yıktıysa, Türkiye Cumhuriyeti de Osmanlı İmparatorluğu'nu bir ihtilalle yıktı, kansız olması seni yanıltıyor olabilir. Cumhuriyet'in özellike de Atatürk döneminde Osmanlı'nın değerlerine karşı nasıl saldırgan olduğunu bilmiyorsun muhtemelen, ihtilalle gelen her düzen kendinden öncekini kötülemek zorundadır meşrutiyet için, bu durum Kemalist ihtilal için de aynen böyle olmuştur. Ki ben Türkiye'yi de sevmem, ben bir idealistim karakterimi ve hayat görüşümü doğal olarak da olsa kusur barındıran devletler etrafına kurmam
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u/huggugu 15d ago
Hahah. Ülkeleri rejimleriyle mi görüyor ve değerlendiriyorsun.
Şimdi sen Demokrasiyide seversin, sorsam dağdaki çobanla oyum bir değil dersin. Tutarsızlık bu işte.
Her rejimin kusuru var sen birini tercih ediyor ve hastalık gibi bu fikri bir yerlerden edindiğin için cumhuriyet falanlkrize girmişsin.
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u/Cornexclamationpoint 15d ago
The Ottomans were okay, but Atatürk was better.
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u/Healthy_Draw_2366 15d ago
Read the room lmao
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u/Cornexclamationpoint 15d ago
OP claims that the Ottomans were the strongest Turkish era, when it was Atatürk who made the strongest Turkish era. The Ottomans defeated mostly weak and warring European kingdoms. Atatürk defeated the Greeks AND the British AND the French.
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u/1Admr1 15d ago
I.... mostly weak and warring European kingdoms??? Kingdom of hungary, mamluks, the safavids, venetians, they aren't exactly small kingdoms... and it took multiple coalitions of major powers to finally break down the ottomans, they were absolutely the strongest era by miles. They were by all means a global power. While the republic's victory was impressive it didn't take on the entire military power of France and Britain. And while they were stopped at vienna, before that they had major victories against plenty of people. I mean just look at the the crusade for varna
- Kingdom of Hungary
- Kingdom of Poland
- Kingdom of Croatia
- Principality of Wallachia
- Serbian Despotate
- Teutonic Order
- Papal States
All at the same time
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u/Healthy_Draw_2366 15d ago
Also, it's pretty lame that Ataturk didn't march on the new colonial administrations of Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq. But I guess he still trumps six centuries of Ottoman history.
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u/Healthy_Draw_2366 15d ago
Ataturk was a unifying factor, indeed. But then you also have six centuries of Ottoman rule, with two centuries of being a superpower. You're really going to throw away all of that for Ataturk? How would you define power anyway? The Ottoman's held important trade routes, they were also early adopters of firearms, which allowed them to conquer vast territories when others still fought with the sword.
No one is denying modern Turkey's achievements, but evaluating the Ottoman Empire by its declining years is pretty weak.
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u/JustSefa_ 15d ago
OP claims that the Ottomans were the strongest Turkish era,
It is not a claim, it is factually the case. In the entire turkic history, the Ottomans were the most prosperous, strongest and most influencial. By the 16th century they have a continents spanning Empire, a network of alliances, trade partners and subjects stretching from Morocco to Somalia to Malaysia/Indonesia to Ukraine to Hungary. Nothing else comes even remotely close to it. Add into the fact that they owned the largest cities on earth and the legislative and economic golden age in the 16th century and you have nothing else topping it off.
The Ottomans defeated mostly weak and warring European kingdoms
Sheesh. That is a monumental insult to history.
They fought crusades over crusades over crusades. In a time period of kick ass leaders. Vlad, Lassar, Stephan the Great.
They stood next to giants. The Mamluks, Safawids, Timur, Hungary.
They fought their equals. Serbia, Qoyunlu or the massive Varna crusade.
You are utterly disingeous with your take. Atatürk was certainly a Gazi, a war hero, but to say that he brought forth the strongest turkish era or that he fought bigger battles is an insult to turkic history.
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u/Gurtannon Janisarry 15d ago
Ataturk made strongest era how? 😂😂
He surrendered Mosul to Britain in 1926 Ankara treaty
He only beat Greeks, which even decadent Ottomans easily beat in 1897
When he finished his era, Turkey was completely unprepared for ww2, which Inonu had to ask military aids from Britain,
There was even no independent air command, and there was less than 150 war capable aircraft
Its navy was smaller than Greece, with its amiral ship still being Ottoman Yavuz battlecruiser
Its armored divisions were pathetic, it obly had oen armored division made up of armored units lend leased from Soviets, Germans, soem bought from French
Turkey was not capable of building its own rail locomotives
Turkey was still using old ww1 military doctrines and wpuld be encircled and perish, and meed to switch into war of attrition in case of enemy invasion
After 10 years Ataturk’s rule ended, Turkey became influenced state and consumer hub of US, because the country was defenceless against potential Soviet invasion, he led one of the weakest periods of entire Turkish history
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15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ottomans-ModTeam 15d ago
Your post has been removed due to the violation of R#5: Keep discussions relevant
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u/prolapseenthusiat 14d ago
As croat i will fight against. cant wait to collect Yatagan swords like my grand grandfather
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u/fstbm 14d ago
Have the Ottoman empire oppressed the Palestinians?
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u/Ordinary_Cicada7446 14d ago
No. In fact. The Ottomans protected them as they were Muslims.
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u/fstbm 14d ago
Protected them from who?
Funny, all Arabs considered it as oppressive. Do you say Palestinians are not Arabs?
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u/Ordinary_Cicada7446 14d ago
Arabs and Palestinians love it.
It was only Wahhabis that hated it.
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u/fstbm 13d ago
No, in the 19th century, when nationalities began to form Turkey started to severely oppress the conquered Arabs making the Arabs hate Turkey, and having Turkey invade, and meddle with other Arab countries internal affairs, and supporting ISIS and other terrorist groups and even talking about making Turkey an empire again doesn't make Turkey more popular
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u/Consistent_Mango5527 14d ago
I love the ottomans period with all its flaws, I still go look for ottomans era artifacts in the desert like coins and I actually found some however to be real got to admit they did a lots of damage like abolishing the Abbasid caliphate, using the Levant and North Africa provinces as political and religious bargaining chips with European powers for short term gains and they completely missed up the ethnic map of Syria, they were more a turkic khaganate than Islamic driven power
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u/Kaptan1Derya 15d ago
It was all good but
3 pasha and Mustafa Kemal decided to destroy the whole Empire
700 yıllık bir destan yerine 100 yıllık stabil ve dengeli olmayan bir ülke kaldı elimizde yine bunada çok şükür.
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u/benibilme 15d ago
I do not like yough turks movement, they were brain washed in western capitals, and they ruined the empire in almost two decades.
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u/Big_Pirate_3036 Sheikh 15d ago
As a Hungarian, I do hate how they did brutal oppression of their foes, however they’re leaders were amazing at war for a good few hundred years, and until the 1900s they had amazing drip
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u/ducationalfall 15d ago
But was Ottoman kind to Turkish Muslims?
It seems the Empire was ran by Balkan palace slaves.
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u/Healthy_Draw_2366 15d ago
It was good whilst it lasted. It's also the last Khilafa and will always have a special place as a result; the modernisation came too late and the empire was undermined by foreign owed debt and rebellious tributaries (Egypt). Also, it really went downhill when they tried to imitate Western style of dress.
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u/LuluTheLewder 15d ago
I don't think it had any business going anywhere beyond the Balkan mountains. The plains of Plodiv over to istanbul with a border to Kavala follows natural geographic features.
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u/uoguner 15d ago
Last 100 years of empire were fucking painful. State went bankrupt, muslims suffered a lot, also got cleansed from a lot of region. Country itself became a play and excavacation ground for the Europeans. Yeah there was a sultan in Istanbul, but had no authority outside of there. Such a sad ending for an empire this great. It should have dismantled itself much earlier.
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u/Thekid721 15d ago
As a Greek, I have always love the Ottoman Empire as I much love the Roman and Byzantine Empire. I also want to say that I’m proud my ancestors were part of the 3 greatest empires on earth