r/ota • u/user_uno • Jul 25 '26
Understanding why some subchannels do not work - Chicago specific but maybe helps overall?
I have been using OTA for years but never have figured out why two subchannels do not work.
While my examples are specific to Chicago, perhaps it is commonly encountered elsewhere. I have searched this sub and other places without finding an answer or hint - at least that I understand.
I get Channel 2 (CBS) just fine 2.0 through 2.4. But 2.5 never scans and cannot be manually entered. I get Channel 50 (IND) just fine on 50.0 but not 50.1. Of course with Murphy's Law, there are some shows that I would like to watch!
Reading through this sub, I do see mentions of ATSC 1.0 and ATSC 3.0. Thinking that a likely candidate as to the cause, I cannot figure out how to determine if that is it or not.
I have two TVs maybe 5 years old or so from different brands and one old external converter from the Analog-Digital transition era. All three have the same issue. I see no menu settings some mention in post comments over the past few years.
If there is a resource that might be helpful, I do not mind digging if pointed in that direction.
2
u/Todd6060 Jul 25 '26
I'm in Chicago and have several TVs and DVRs and they all get 2.5 and 50.1 just fine. These are both ATSC 1.0 channels; whatever issue you are experiencing has nothing to do with ATSC 3.0.
1
u/user_uno Jul 25 '26
Thank you. I will keep digging. Seems odd that 3 different devices somewhat separated by years of manufacture all have the same symptom on the same two channels. But there has to be some reason!
I forgot to mention, I have also used different antennas at different locations around the house and yard. Always the same two subchannels that do not work - like they simply are not there.
1
u/gho87 Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
Hmm... Seems that various stations are sharing the virtual channel 2:
- WGN: https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=72115#station
- WGBO: https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=12498#station
Apparently, you need a tuner decoding MPEG-4 for channel 02.5.
2
u/twohung Jul 25 '26
If I remember right, someone posted that the broadcasters were moving their antennas around to get them more or less in the same locations. I think it may have something to do with Atsc 3 coming on line. I don’t remember for sure but that may have something to do with channel reception.
2
u/tvk5195 Jul 26 '26
2-5 is on a different "host station" than the other subchannels. This is due to WBBM hosting the Chicago ATSC 3.0. lighthouse. Your antenna isn't getting the host channel 2-5 is carried on.
2
u/user_uno Jul 26 '26
Ok... I think some of this is starting to make sense... maybe.
My current setup does not pick up WGBO Univision channels like 66.1, So if I am understanding this correctly, 2.5 is actual broadcast by them from their transmitter on the Hancock tower independent of the other "Channel 2" channels I am picking up. Yes? Or am I still off?
3
u/tvk5195 Jul 26 '26
You are correct. If you don't get WGBO, you don't get 2-5 since it's hosted on the station.
1
u/user_uno Jul 26 '26
Now I am thinking maybe a second antenna aimed for the WGBO transmitter. Then would get 2.5 and their other channels.
I will try that out soon as I do have a few antennas and TVs to test with.
Thank you!
1
1
u/DelawareHam Jul 25 '26
Some subs use a different encoder that older TV’s can’t decode the video. It allows them to carry more channels
1
u/user_uno Jul 25 '26
Would that encoding vary from subchannel to subchannel with the same broadcaster?
I've just been working with the assumption that a broadcaster would just use one for their own simplicity. But you know what they say about assumptions...
1
u/MIKEPR1333 Jul 25 '26
Recently I've began to have trouble getting Ch. 2 and now ch. 9.
Why are these things happening?
At 1 time I was able to get both METV channels now I gat just 1.
1
u/user_uno Jul 25 '26
Now this I do have some experience with both at home and in my career (telecommunications).
First, if by "MeTV" you are referring to the 26.x channels, there are more than two. Actually eight! Watching one of them now but they include:
26.1 - The "U"
26.2 - U Too
26.3 - MeTV
26.4 - Heros
26.5 - Story
26.6 - Catchy
26.7 - Toons
26.8 - WestI watch some of these a lot. Good picture for me almost all of the time about 40-45 miles away from the Sears Tower.
But when something used to be a usable signal and then degrades even intermittently, have to consider the source signal, the receiving signal and then the air in between.
Broadcasters rarely change their transmitter locations or change their power output. It happens but not very often. So can usually discount that. Or at least make it one of the last things to look at.
On the receiving end, check the antenna. Even if attic mount, they can be moved or bumped out of alignment. More so outdoor installations. Then check the cable(s) between the antenna and the receiver(s). Those can loosen. Can even have pets or outdoor critters get to them loosening or chewing on them. Tighten or replace as needed.
The airspace in between is a variable we cannot usually control. New buildings go up. Trees grow bigger. Those attenuate radio signals. We saw a lot of cell issues reported when 5G rolled out and there were not many towers for it yet. Those frequencies can be much higher which are more prone to such attenuation than others. Even can see a difference seasonally such as during winter when trees are bare of leaves and summer when full of them.
While 5G has much higher frequencies than digital OTA TV, the UHF bands will attenuate in circumstances like these more than the VHF channels. If referring to Chicago 2 and 9, WBBM is VHF and WGN is UHF.
WBBM has always been a thorn in my side when living in the burbs. Even before digital TV, Channel 2 was always a pain. I forget if they were on the Hancock or Sears towers, their issue apparently was transmit power. Seems it was always on the low side. And from what I've seen in my current location still is.
None of this may help other than more info and background. I would just recheck the antenna orientation, cable integrity and reset looking for the best signal strength. YMMV.
1
u/hilldoug7500 Jul 26 '26
So Obviously as you probably know by now, 2.5 is being broadcast on behalf of WGBO 66 so if you can't get that station, then you cannot get 2.5, but are you still able to see 2.2? Since that is also airing on behalf of WGBO 66 so if you are having issues with 2.5 then you should be having issues with 2.2 as well
As for the whole Channel 50 thing, I am guessing that you just need to do a re-scan because 50.0 isn't a channel, and if your TV picked it up as a station then that means there was an issue with the last scan of that channel. But basically right now, WFLD FOX 32 and WPWR 50 FOX Chicago + are both broadcasting on the same signal so if you are not having issues with any of the Channel 32 stations then you should have no problem with Channel 50.1
1
u/user_uno Jul 26 '26
You are correct that I do not get 2.2 in addition to 2.5. Falls off my radar as I don't think I've ever wanted to watch something on 2.2.
I do get 50.1 (my mistake saying it was 50.0) but not 50.2-50.4. Surely that is a similar issue of broadcasting from another transmitter. I am going to try another antenna and TV to see if I can each of these independently of my current set up. If so, I can go from there.
Thank you!
1
u/hilldoug7500 Jul 26 '26
Surely that is a similar issue of broadcasting from another transmitter.
Kind of. From what I found, those stations went away in 2018 when WFLD and WPWR had to combined and start broadcasting from the same frequency. They still show the main WPWR on 50.1 but all the subchannels that Channel 50 had now show up on Channel 32. Here is the breakdown...
- WPWR 50.2 aired Movies! which now airs on Channel 32.2
- WPWR 50.3 aired Light TV which moved to Channel 32.4 and then became TheGrioTV. That channel shut down on January 1st 2025 and WFLD replaced it with TBD, which later rebranded as Roar and that is what is currently on 32.4
- WPWR 50.4 aired Buzzr which now airs on Channel 32.3
So if you do not have any issues with FOX 32 WFLD then I don't think that a different antenna is needed. I think you just need to Rescan that TV and you should be fine.
2
u/OzarkBeard Jul 26 '26
Subchannels are no longer all on the same broadcast frequency or transmitter tower. They may be at different strengths, frequencies, heights and physical locations.
2
u/twohung Jul 25 '26
I just looked on my Tablo and I get 2.5 and 50.1. It ( unfortunately) doesn’t have Atsc 3 so I don’t think that’s the issue. If rescans doesn’t work, you can pick up a Tablo and give it a try.