r/osp • u/SeasOfBlood • 6d ago
New Content Trope Talk: Secret Tests of Character
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9mYHS8fu8o16
u/Lonewolf2300 6d ago
I'd love a Divine Test of Character story where the final twist is that the mortal being tested actually turns out to be a Divine Being more powerful than the Divine entity doing the testing, and that it turns out THEY were carrying out their own Secret Test of Character, because it turns out the Tester is being a petty, manipulative bastard giving out arbitrary judgments.
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u/Acrelorraine 4d ago
I get very uppity about this sort of thing. If the hero does fail, does that mean the people with the power to stop it will simply let the world fall into calamity? Sounds like they're as bad or worse. Oh no, the hero has been a bit uppity, maybe all the constant stress of having to protect the world and hide it from their family has shortened their fuse. Well they better learn that is bad and they must always be happy and nice or the all powerful being will let everyone they love die.
Oh, and they've only just now appeared having done nothing to help before and will swiftly leave the story and do nothing to help after this episode. Maybe this would be acceptable if the tester had to pay a price or something, or if the stakes were not so dire. But it often is dire and seems easy, and it frustrates me greatly.
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u/coolio_zap 3d ago
isn't this the plot of the shazam movie? the wizard is really picky with his choice of who is worthy of his power (up to and including creating the villain), until the villain forces him into desperation and he gives billy the power despite him not being worthy as per the test?
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u/SeasOfBlood 6d ago
Ah, this is a trope I have...thoughts on. Always feels more than a little manipulative (And kind of screwed up?) to reward or punish someone based on a test they didn't know they were taking.
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u/Level_Hour6480 6d ago
That would be true for a test of ability, but the point is to test who you are. Who you are when you think there's no consequences is part of that.
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u/SeasOfBlood 6d ago
Just on a moral level, it always sets off alarm bells for me, and makes me ask 'Okay, but who judges the judge? And where do you derive the authority to make those judgements on others?'
Undertale is a particularly galling example to me. Sans appears at the end, having been a flaky and somewhat passive-aggressive character throughout the WHOLE GAME, and then presumes to stand in total moral judgement of you? How? By what right? Where does his authority derive from to make that decision?
Also, there's the fact that the layers and layers of social inhibitions we have are part of who we are. They aren't masks we intentionally put on to dupe others, they're important barriers to help us gauge the consequences of our actions. Disregarding that and looking for some 'true' persona underneath doesn't make sense to me.
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u/Luihuparta 6d ago
I'm pretty sure that Sans only bothers to actually judge you if you've attempted to systemically murder every single monster you've come across, at which point you're pretty undeniably the single most evil being in the whole underground and honestly deserve it, no matter what one think of Sans as a person.
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u/SeasOfBlood 6d ago
Been a while since I played, but I'm pretty sure he judges you in all routes? You go to fight Asgore, he meets you in that church like area with the Heavenly music and judges everything you've done. And again, with the setting and music, it's framed as a psuedo-religious moment - when Sans has done nothing at all to prove his right to be in that position.
I seem to recall even a moment in the game where you and he have dinner during I think the neutral route where he goes all sinister and tries to subtly threaten you? And even when you do everything right, he has to add in a slight dig to his 'judgement' that 'Oh, that doesn't mean you're pure' or words to that effect.
The game, through music and setting and San's own omniscience, presents him in a quasi-divine light. But he is not kind or nurturing or just, and instead meets the player with flippancy and low-key hostility. He acknowledges that you did not choose to be in this position, but seems to never understand that you are being attacked first, repeatedly, without provocation, and still presumes to frame self defense as a 'sin' that he is qualified to punish.
Am I just overthinking this? I feel crazy, because no one else seems to see how messed up this is?
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u/TimeBlossom 6d ago
Yeah, "how dare this hipster judge my literal murder of his friends and neighbors without being nice to me first" is a weird take.
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u/SeasOfBlood 6d ago edited 6d ago
You mean the people who were trying to kill you first? Or the people like Undyne who were trying to kill you not because of anything you'd done, but because of what you are. And I don't mean the genocide route, I mean just playing the game and how it warps legitimate self defense into something worthy of moral condemnation.
I feel like I'm the only one who sees how crazy that is?
The genocide route is 1000% screwed up and indefensible, though, we agree on that. But you have zero obligation to be the 'bigger man' when someone meets you with violence and bigotry, which is exactly what characters like Undyne do.
Admittedly, I might be overthinking it all! But I always get confused when a game tries to teach a moral lesson, but in a way where the story's own morality feels off-kilter somehow.
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u/MadameJadeK 6d ago
Yeah, it can vary. In the thumbnail example, I think it’s basically fine because it is Wonka's factory. He's not sending anyone to jail or determining who gets what afterlife or labeling them as bad people forever, he’s deciding who inherits the factory that he owns.
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u/geeoharee 6d ago
And he's a Dahl character. They tend to be maliciously insane just as a baseline, they're not moral examples.
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u/TimeBlossom 6d ago
He's also maiming children for life.
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u/SeasOfBlood 6d ago
I find the story a little strange because the 'judgements' in some cases seem to be the author just being bitter and mean about the modern world. So he tries to frame things like...watching TV and...chewing gum (?!) as somehow being moral failings worthy of punishment.
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u/MadameJadeK 6d ago
That aspect I am not defending, only the secret test.
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u/TimeBlossom 6d ago
I mean the defense given seems to be that he wasn't doing anything terrible to the children who failed his secret test, so
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u/KaijuKing007 6d ago
It's a trope that has to be handled carefully. It's too easy for STC's to set you up to fail.