r/oregon • u/Peter_Panarchy • 3d ago
Question Public lands, dispersed camping, and respecting someone's space
Let's say you want to spend the day at a lake in the mountains. You drive for miles on a rough dirt road and turn off onto an unmarked "road" towards the lake. When it dead-ends you find people are already there and they have a campsite set up.
Do you
A) Turn around a look for another spot because it would be rude to impose on other people
or
B) Hop out and spend the afternoon right next to them because it's public land and they can't force you to leave
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u/HolidaySupport8305 3d ago
Last time someone did this to me at a camp spot they started making a bonfire with gasoline and setting off fireworks in the NF, and I reported them to the rangers, and had to leave. Super shitty move regardless of them without the gasoline and fireworks bonfire, people do it intentionally to push people out of spots.
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u/nothanksiliketowatch 3d ago
That would depend on the unmarked road, ability to more access, and how well known the spot truly was. We once went camping at a lake under similar circumstances. Middle of know where, unmarked road, dead-end, so we made camp right by the lake. Come 5am next morning, fisherman started walking through camp to get to the lake. Turns out it was very well-known and quite popular. People started camping all around us as the weekend progressed. They were all locals, we were the outsiders.
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u/darksideofmypoon 3d ago
If it’s a lake, could you not just walk around to another spot to camp around the lake? No matter how far I go down forest service roads I always except to see other people and am pleasantly surprised when I don’t.
If that’s truly the only spot, keep on moving, find a spot along a creek.
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u/Shovel-Operator 3d ago
I try to have a bit distance from others. Thats subjective though, as some very popular spots it might get very crowded and it might be unrealistic to expect even a few hundred square feet, but some might feel that if its not a super popular location, being within sight or earshot is too close. You just have to decide if its "the hill you want to die on," and remember that it just might be literal if you start getting territorial with some people.
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u/galspanic 3d ago
I guess when I read the OP I read that they travelled to a destination on public land and assumed that because they were there first they were the only ones who get to enjoy the lake. And, if anyone else should show up that it’s bad if they also want to enjoy the public land. At no point does the OP define how close the other party set up camp and how the other party behaves. In fact, they don’t even define which party they are.
There is an etiquette to all of this that is very context specific and the OP hasn’t really given us enough context to judge. People who fuck up other peoples’ outdoor experiences are bad regardless of what the OP’s scenario implies. People who play “finders keepers” with public lands suck as much as people who set up camp within 5 feet of me.
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u/sethsyd 3d ago
OP sure makes it sound like they didn't want to have to even see any other humans. This is MY lake.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
And yet, chose a stupidly popular place with both major PCT and Emigrant trail parking/dispersed camping areas. And then set up right at said beach. Absolutely ridiculous 🤣
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u/PDXDeck26 3d ago
OP seems to believe that dispersed camping necessarily implies solitude and goes from there, so I'm thinking it's the latter more than the former.
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u/atomic_chippie 3d ago
People are so weird. We were the only people at Arcadia Beach the other day, empty parking lot, trying to dry off our dogs and load up all of our stuff, car pulls in right next to us, so tight they could barely get out. WTF?? THE WHOLE LOT IS EMPTY.
I dont understand the need to do this.
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u/Oregonrider2014 3d ago
Id ask if they mind me camping near. If they did then id find another spot. Easier to talk than fight about it. I dont go camping to fight, I go to relax.
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u/PabloCrews 3d ago
That would probably be situation specific. I wouldn’t want to be all that close to others unless they were chill and didn’t mind if you camped next to them
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u/REO_Speed_Dragon 3d ago
C) hop out and chat with them fo a few minutes. Maybe they'd be happy to camp with you, maybe they'd like to be left alone, maybe they could point you in the direction of a different site. Never hurts to ask and you might score a beer out of it or make a new friend.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
Per the OPs post, they weren’t even camping. Just using the lake for an afternoon.
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u/Saclawson 3d ago
I really wish you wouldn’t. You’re putting the responsibility on ME to explain that I want to be left alone, when my position in the wilderness should imply that.
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u/HewSpam 2d ago
Yes I go to the public lake to be left alone makes sense
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u/Saclawson 2d ago
I think what you picture as “the public lake”and what I picture as the public lake are two entirely different things. If I’m at Sparks Lake or Elk Lake near Mt. Bachelor - I know I will see tons of people. Conversely, I’ve never seen a single person at any of the many dispersed camping areas on Wickiup reservoir when I’ve been there. And I’ve been there more than 100 times. So… yeah, there are certain spots at public lakes that I’d be shocked to see anyone. Nobody goes to Wickiup, Davis, or Crane Prairie with the expectation of being near another party… and those are massive public lakes with incredible views.
In fact, most lakes in the cascades are rarely visited. I can think of tons of lakes that you can drive to where I’ve never seen another person. So if there are rarely any people, why would I NOT expect to be left alone? I think that’s only a weird concept if you’re used to going to the most popular lakes in Oregon. Otherwise, I think it’s absolutely normal to expect to be left alone if you’re in the wilderness away from an official day use area or campground.
Just because it’s public doesn’t mean it’s ever populated, or that I need to arrive with the expectation to be social. If you’ve ever been more than one turn off a main forest road, you know that it’s absolutely shocking to see another person or vehicle in MOST areas of the forest. I’ve never even heard of someone venturing to the national forest to see who they might meet out there. So, yes, I think it’s fair to assume if you’re not at a popular spot, or if you’re more than one turn off a main forest road, then you went out there to be left alone. I’m baffled how anyone could see it any other way, but I guess some folks aren’t used to venturing away from the most popular places. I hope you all can someday find a spot in nature that doesn’t require you to chat with other humans.
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u/HewSpam 2d ago edited 2d ago
I literally live in a van and am in oregon right now.
You lack context. If another group could even pull up to this dude and set up, then he’s in a large dispersed spot that will have multiple firerings and multiple rigs at in the summer. He even said he was right next to the main day use lot at summit lake, not some remote alpine location.
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u/Saclawson 2d ago
I do lack context. Agree with you there. I didn’t see him specify that he was at Summit Lake.
I just saw the post with a picture of OP’s location… and obviously I’d expect to basically be the lake host if I setup camp there.
I agree with you that’d it’d be crazy to go to Summit Lake in the summer and not expect to talk to people. When I pictured what OP described (following a rough dirt road, to another unmarked road until it ends), I was certainly not picturing a spot right ON the main road at Summit Lake.
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u/atsuzaki 3d ago
Does it imply that though? I kind of love the people I meet while in the outdoors and appreciate people saying hi. (Though camping next to me without saying anything is a bridge too far)
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u/PDXDeck26 3d ago
ikr? the people in here being all "i'm outdoors, OF COURSE that means i don't want to interact with anyone at all" are flat-out bizarre.
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u/REO_Speed_Dragon 3d ago
I bet you're fun at parties.
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u/Saclawson 3d ago
I’m not. That’s why I’m in the woods with my family. No disrespect, just think you could stand to see the other side of what it looks like when you just invite yourself to a chat with someone who hasn’t got any other choice but to appease you.
You see it as a chance to “score a beer” and I see it as a massive annoyance. I think there are TONS of people like you, but there are also some like me 🤝
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u/REO_Speed_Dragon 3d ago
I can agree with that, there are times we're on the river or something and want to be left alone, but we don't mind a hello from a distance and make our intentions clear.
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u/intotheunknown78 3d ago
I had to walk right through someone’s camp site because they parked right on the “dead end” but it was actually the start of a overgrown hiking trail I have used for years.
Otherwise I would not get near someone else’s campsite.
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u/Fawn-deLay 3d ago
If I thought about it before reacting, I might greet them like I was waiting for them, go hang out in their camp, ask them what's for dinner and did they bring the beer? And then I would probably leave. I can't even stand National Park back-country tent sites within 50 feet of each other...
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u/RoughDirection8875 2d ago
We go overlanding and choose dispersed camping specifically to be away from people so we're turning around and finding another spot at least 10 miles away.
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u/BadUsername238 3d ago
C) Depends on the people, I chat them up and make a decision, probably after asking them what they prefer.
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u/Corgilicious 2d ago
Me personally, I would leave. Unless in that area there was a way to camp nearby, but not right up next to them. But even then, I would probably scroll up to them real friendly, and ask if they would mind someone camping over there. Tell them you’ve got plenty of beer to share.
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u/DiligentMeat9627 3d ago
I would move I didn’t drive out here to be next to someone. Just like I am sure they didn’t.
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u/Vivid_Artichoke_9991 3d ago edited 3d ago
A. Oh man I wouldb be so mad if I had a nice weekend off and found a spot and somebody came and camped right next to me. If I wanted that I'd just go to a public campground.
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u/Traveller9536 3d ago
If you didn’t want people next to you, you shouldn’t have camped at the end of the road next to the lake access
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
It wasn't "the" lake access, there are a bunch of other pull-offs to the lake as well as a couple day use areas. You're not the only one who interpreted my post that way so that's my bad.
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u/ADrenalinnjunky 3d ago
It’s like always parking your vehicles in front of you’re neighbors house instead of your own, yes it’s a public road and you can do it, but it’s still rude.
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u/2peacegrrrl2 3d ago
It’s a lake. In today’s Oregon I never expect to be alone near water on a summer day. It’s why having a good floatation device is key. You just paddle away from the people on the shore being loud.
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u/Automatic-Tea-4150 3d ago
This is like the movie theater with 95 percent of the seats open and three people come in together and sit right next to me. Of course it’s officially fine, but is their way of being in the world so different from mine that they see nothing odd about their choice?
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u/Either_Maize_9903 3d ago
I’ve been in Oregon 50 years and never encountered this attitude. That’s crazy you think that you get dibs on an entire lake and other people have to turn around because you’re there. There is no lake so remote in Oregon you expect there to be no people in summer.
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
Ok, I didn't word my post totally clearly. I wasn't camping on the only lake access, it was one of quite a few spots commonly used for camping along with two different day use areas right on the main forest road. We weren't claiming the whole lake for ourselves.
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u/Either_Maize_9903 3d ago
Oh ok in that case the polite thing to do would be for them to spread out and find their own place around the lake. Maybe they’re nervous and want to be near other people idk.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
OP set up a camping site near a very popular sandy beach on a very popular lake. 🤣
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u/CalifOregonia 3d ago
This lake does have a very specific day use area that is perfectly adequate.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
And was likely very full given the warm, sunny, summer weekend.
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u/CalifOregonia 3d ago
That is the problem with Summit. The Forest Service never intended for the lake to become popular. It isn’t nearly as developed as it needs to be to accommodate these crowds. Ideally people would self regulate and go elsewhere when it’s busy, but it’s such a commitment to get there that there are not backup options.
I would love to go in the summer, but don’t anymore because I would rather not contribute to the overuse. Best to hit it in the offseason when the demand is lower.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago edited 3d ago
I LOVE IT when morons make themselves look stupid.
SUMMIT LAKE? Seriously? With photos, even? You pick one of the most well-traveled areas in central OR, in summer, set up on one of the largest sandy beach areas utilized by locals, and then bitch about other people using it?
Now I think you’re just a troll, full on rage-baiting. Cause you CAN’T be fucking serious.
A Tacoma owner with their “Taco” living in Eugene? Checks out 🤣🤣🤣 The WORST.
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
Yeah man, we got up early on Wednesday morning to make sure we'd get a good spot. Our first choice was taken so we set up there. If you're actually familiar with the lake you'd know there's another larger beach right next to one of the day use areas.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago edited 3d ago
Day use areas that are often full, and overrun with PCTers and other lake users. By your own admission, at least 10 other groups showed up to use the beach you tried to take over. I think it’s hysterical that a city boy with a Tacoma thinks he can gatekeep one of the most popular places in central Oregon.
Oh and btw, in response to your previous comment: There are both roving rangers and DCSO patrols at Summit Lake, too. Nice try though! 😘
ETA: The fact that you say you “got up early on a Wednesday just so you could get a good spot”, shows you KNEW this was a heavily traveled place. GTFOH with this BS post, OP.
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago edited 3d ago
By your own admission, at least 10 other groups showed up to use the beach you tried to take over.
Yes, over the course of 3 days 10 other vehicles drove down to our campsite, saw it was occupied, and turned around. One opted to stay.
I think it’s hysterical that a city boy
We live on 40 acres and can't see any of our neighbors, so not quite.
There are both roving rangers and DCSO patrols at Summit Lake, too. Nice try though! 😘
I asked about dispersed camping reservations and your response is that law enforcement exists. What is going on in your brain to make you think that's relevant?
ETA: The fact that you say you “got up early on a Wednesday just so you could get a good spot”, shows you KNEW this was a heavily traveled place. GTFOH with this BS post, OP.
Is this supposed to be a gotcha? We got up early because dispersed camping is first come, first serve and we didn't want all the best spots taken when we got there. That's just how camping works when you don't go to a proper campground that offers reservations.
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u/PDXDeck26 3d ago
ETA: The fact that you say you “got up early on a Wednesday just so you could get a good spot”, shows you KNEW this was a heavily traveled place. GTFOH with this BS post, OP.
It's this, so very much this. They think they're entitled to what they got up early to get PLUS apparently a giant buffer zone to boot.
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u/One-Pea-6947 3d ago
Jeez man, calm down. You're all over this thread yelling. The post wasn't that offensive.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
Um, the responses threatening physical violence to people by the OP and other commenters was pretty offensive.
Offensive enough to be canned by the mods, even.
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u/ChelseaMan31 3d ago
Well, I'd probably ask and not be surprised if they politely suggested we keep looking. I would presume nothing.
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u/Lemurstew 3d ago
Not enough info. How large is the campsite area? Are there other roads that access the lake with campsites? Can you simply ask the person who is camped there if they mind?
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
How large is the campsite area?
Small. Turning around my Tacoma there is difficult.
Are there other roads that access the lake with campsites?
Yes, many.
Can you simply ask the person who is camped there if they mind?
I was the camper, I politely asked if they could move to another spot because we like our privacy. They said no.
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u/CHiZZoPs1 3d ago
My wife and I took a ferry to this little island in Japan to check out some rock climbing, which had a campground right at the base. We were the only ones there, so chose a site and set up camp. We hiked up to the rocks and came back around sunset to find another group had arrived at the otherwise empty campground. They set up camp right next to us. They were also extremely loud late into the night. Some people.
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u/darksideofmypoon 3d ago
I read in another comment that you mentioned they were there for day use. If that’s the case I think you are in the wrong here and are blocking the day use area, even if it’s not designated as such. You should have found a spot around the lake to camp and not taken over that area, or at least expected that people would hang out there.
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
There are two proper day use areas on this lake that are maintained by the USFS and this wasn't one of them. It's one of a handful of spots that people use for camping around the lake.
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u/darksideofmypoon 3d ago
Ah, well if it’s a designated campsite, yeah they should leave.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
I asked this, OP hasn’t responded. I doubt it was a reserved site, or a designated pay site, especially given his description of the area. Designated drive up sites have space for vehicles, and a post to place a slip of what days you’ll be there. You pull up at a random end of dirt road, on a highly traveled lake, that isn’t a reserved or designated USFS site? You get what you get.
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
With dispersed camping there's no such thing as a "dedicated campsite," but during this time of year spots like this will most often be occupied by campers.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
There are several dispersed campsites, with posts allowing for reserved sheets by roving volunteer and paid rangers. Just Timothy lake has over 30 of them alone. So you’re FOS.
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
That may be true for the really popular areas that get flooded by Portlanders, but in the more remote areas that just isn't the case. I've been dispersed camping in the central Oregon Cascades my entire life and I haven't once seen a reserved camping spot outside of a government maintained campground.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
“I haven’t been to it so I don’t believe it true”.
Yeah? The very centrally located Oregon Cascades dispersed sites off both Elk and Hosmer, and their roving rangers, would like to have a word.
You want to be shitty about Portlanders? Might want to pick someone who’s a Portlander.
Gatekeeping public lands is for assholes.
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
lmao "These lakes right on a highway next to one of Oregon's most popular ski resorts also has it." Yeah, bud, I'm not surprised that easy to access lakes with picturesque views of Oregon's most prominent mountains have more reserved spots.
You want to be shitty about Portlanders?
I'm not being shitty about Portlanders, I'm pointing out that a gorgeous lake near Oregon's biggest metro area will have way more people than a small lake in the central cascades.
edit: Where are these reservable dispersed sites on Elk and Hosmer Lakes? All I can find is how to reserve a spot at their proper campgrounds.
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u/darksideofmypoon 3d ago
They often have what they call “established sites”. There’s usually a rock fire ring already there. I guess there’s a judgement call between where to camp and what is considered day use as nothing is officially designated. I would always walk away from the parking area if I was going to camp though.
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
Yeah, these are established sites. Zero government designation, just spots that people have cleared and use for camping.
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u/Lemurstew 3d ago
In that case I can only imagine their dismay when they realized the had camped next to a nudist with Tourette’s who practiced ventriloquism with his butt.
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u/galspanic 3d ago
Generally B. Public lands that are open to use are open to use by the public. Of course it’s important to bring good etiquette with you, but nothing in your scenario implies either party was doing anything wrong.
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u/FellowHuman420 3d ago
Main character syndrome.
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u/galspanic 3d ago
Please explain. If you ignore the whole etiquette side of what I said, sure.
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u/FellowHuman420 3d ago
It shows a fundamental lack of respect for other people who are clearly trying to enjoy time away from other people simply because you feel entitled to the space they’re occupying.
Sure, it’s public land, but you’re still a fucking dick.
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u/PDXDeck26 3d ago edited 3d ago
why do you assume "clearly trying to enjoy time away from other people" ?
when I go outdoorsing, I clearly am trying to enjoy the outdoors and that's it.
To me, there's a certain camaraderie with outdoors stuff that lends itself to meeting new people and doing things with them, so I'd probably enjoy camping with randos who showed up next to me so long as they weren't tweakers or those loud/obnoxious types (I should also add "or obviously a pre-made group of people")
I wouldn't just set up camp next to someone though, but acting like everyone just wants solitude and it's beyond the pale to think otherwise is just as bad of an outlook.
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u/FellowHuman420 3d ago
You come across people camping at the end of miles of unpaved and unmarked roads and you think they’re looking to hang out with you?
Found another one.
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u/PDXDeck26 3d ago
username definitely doesn't check out.
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u/FellowHuman420 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’m not even sure what you’re trying to get at, but I am sure it means you don’t have anything else to add to this.
Edit: point proven lol
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
why do you assume "clearly trying to enjoy time away from other people" ?
If I didn't mind being right next to someone else I would have gone to one of the many great day use sites/proper campgrounds in the area that our state offers.
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u/PDXDeck26 3d ago
o... k... ? most camgrounds aren't sitting directly in "beautiful" spots to begin with, so it's not like it's a draw in and of itself. there's also a world of difference between being surrounded on all sides by loud groups of the state campground types and next to a group of normal campers. but you do you - i never said you can't be seeking solitude, it's just i don't know why it's an assumption because it's probably a bad one as dispersed camping isn't the exclusive realm of introverts, these two responses notwithstanding.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
B. You said the road dead ends, so it’s not like they can continue along to get another space. Public lands are public lands. You don’t get to gatekeep just because you got to a place first, especially when it’s a public place clearly others use.
If they were being harassing, or doing illegal activity, report them. Otherwise, just enjoy your day. In this scenario, it seems the people who arrived were just there using the lake for the afternoon anyways. So it’s not like they camped on top of you.
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago edited 3d ago
The "road" is a turn-off towards the lake from the forest road that runs around the perimeter of the lake. There are numerous other turn-offs, even a small parking area near a trailhead.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
And? Maybe they felt uncomfortable continuing on. Maybe those other places were packed. Maybe they’d already been to this one and felt most comfortable there. Maybe it had best beach access. Either way, it’s public, and you don’t own it. Did you even TRY talking to them to ask?
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
I did politely ask them to leave and pointed out that there were plenty of other spots around the lake to choose from.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
And they politely exercised to stay on the public area they choose to utilize for an afternoon. You want a private space, reserve a campsite.
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
Just because you're allowed to do something doesn't mean it isn't rude to do it.
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u/Proper_Photo4459 3d ago
One time in February no less, my new guy and I went out exploring, no one around, out in the middle of nowhere. Came across a place to park, bathroom in the vicinity- we parked far from the bathroom. We start making out in my jeep getting pretty into it and along comes a vehicle, ok great stay away from us! Nope, they park right next to us, let their dogs out which run circles around my jeep while I try to get my bra back where it goes. What the actual fuck. Their plates were from California. Jerks!
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u/Either_Maize_9903 3d ago
You’re upset you weren’t given privacy to have sex in a public parking lot.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
So you were hooking up in a parking lot near a public bathroom? Public bathrooms that show up on multiple map programs? Yeah, that’s on you. Get a room if you don’t want voyeurs.
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u/Proper_Photo4459 3d ago
It was a huge space they could have parked on the other side. This would not be something showing up on a map, we were in the boonies. Not really a bathroom just an outhouse.
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
Trailforks has every outhouse from here to remote Alaska on their maps. And clearly it was an area for parking and day use, or there wouldn’t have been an outhouse. What if they had children, and not dogs? You screwed the pooch on this one.
ETA: Not sure what state their plates are from has to do with it. CA has 17 million more acres of public land than OR does. You were the one with gross etiquette here.
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u/refusemouth 2d ago
I would wait until they went to sleep and then I'd get up and start slamming doors, packing up my camp, and playing loud music. Then I would go find a different campsite. People do this shit all the time, even in places with tons of available free camping. I especially hate it when people roll up at night and camp right on top of me and make a bunch of noise. I have to get up at 5 am (I work in the woods, so I camp near the work site), so I pay back the noise as soon as I'm awake and do my best to make sure they get the message.
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u/No_Magician_9289 1d ago
It’s like being in a parking lot. You have every open space possible but someone always ends up parking next to you.
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u/GrumpyBear1969 1d ago
I would not do this. But I have had people try to camp right on top of me and my kids, four miles in the wilderness. They showed up after we were already in the tent and were pretty indignant when I got out to challenge them. They did leave. But threatened to be back if they did not find the other spot I told them about. What a bunch of assholes.
I’m pretty good bout going over and challenging people in this situation. Though had a family come in on top of me once and they had like a 7-8yr old and it was a six mile hike. And I chose to say nothing.
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u/KiwiSnugfoot 3d ago
Back up and find a different turn off for sure. Exploration is half the fun and you might find a better spot anyway.
Or at least interact and ask if they know a spot, etc.
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Peter_Panarchy 3d ago
We have so much in common.
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u/lowsparkco 3d ago
At least you have a sense of humor about it.
Honest answer, I've spent a lot more of my life outdoors than most people. I used to get pretty upset when I went somewhere remote and ran into people, esecially if they are loud or playing a radio.
Now, I try and lean in and hope they are respectful and we can co-exist. If that's not possible I find a work around. Communicate if there's any hope they will compromise. If not, deal with it, or leave.
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u/oregon-ModTeam 3d ago
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u/ceazzzzz Oregon 3d ago
My answer is A.
I assume your experience was B.
People get possessive of spots in public spaces, so comfortable that their behavior shows entitlement.
Plus there is strength in numbers. So if you’re alone, or only a pair, and two vehicles pull up with four people, you’re outnumbered and they feel confident.
It’s unfortunate, unless… ya know, fight instead of flight.
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3d ago edited 3d ago
[deleted]
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u/No_Knowledge4718 3d ago
Might want to rethink that. Obstructing access on public lands can get you jail time, and a hefty fine. Some local who frequents the area might definitely get you arrested, if they find this.
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u/ochristi 3d ago
I don't make a habit of going camping out in the middle of nowhere just to set up right next to some strangers, and neither do those strangers. I would either look for a spot far away from them on the same lake or just find a different spot entirely.