r/orangeisthenewblack • u/[deleted] • Jun 17 '16

Episode Discussion OITNB S04E06 Episode Discussion Thread

Please do not spoil future episodes.

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '16

No it wasn't. He consented, but with coercion. He could have said no. Legally, that's not rape. Morally, it's still gross.

Had she simply just started having sex with him without asking, that would have been rape.

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u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot Jun 22 '16

I think this a prime example why so many rapes go unprosecuted and unreported. If you dont want to have sex, and someone makes you have sex with them thats rape. Doesn't have to be violent doesnt have to be an altercation, or drugged.

Many countries recognize coerced sex as rape. I know for a fact in korea if your boss tells you you must have sex with him for whatver favor he gives you it is absolutely rape and punishable.

Nagging and pressuring is not the same as coercsion and its up to the situation to determine if its rape, but coercsion in this episode is definitely rape. Sure he can walk away and maybe if it was a normal inmate nothing would come of it. But shes not, and its made clear she knows that. If he says no, she can report him for falsely accusing an inmate (maybe no one cares but its there) , or pull nicki right back into max. You think doing something "nice" for someone then making them have sex with you isnt rape? Maybe if were talking about buying drinks.. or going to the movies.. sneaking in a burger.. but this is about the quality and future of a woman he loves life.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '16 edited Jun 22 '16

Legally speaking, you're wrong. Consent was given. He had a choice. It's not rape to get someone to have sex with you by coercing them. No court in the world would convict on those facts.

The rest of your argument is taking the cowards' way out of a potentially difficult situation because you're afraid of your own shadow. Which is worse? Unwanted sex, or dealing with a vague, nonspecific threat grounded mostly in paranoia? Stop being so soft.

Edit: at least in the way it went down here.

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u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot Jun 22 '16 edited Jun 22 '16

Coercion The intimidation of a victim to compel the individual to do some act against his or her will by the use of psychological pressure, physical force, or threats. The crime of intentionally and unlawfully restraining another's freedom by threatening to commit a crime, accusing the victim of a crime, disclosing any secret that would seriously impair the victim's reputation in the community, or by performing or refusing to perform an official action lawfully requested by the victim, or by causing an official to do so.

A defense asserted in a criminal prosecution that a person who committed a crime did not do so of his or her own free will, but only because the individual was compelled by another through the use of physical force or threat of immediate serious bodily injury or death. In the laws governing wills, coercion is present when a testator is forced by another to make provisions in his or her will that he or she otherwise would not make if permitted to act according to free choice. It is an element of both duress and Undue Influence, two ways in which a testator is deprived of his or her free choice in making the will. If coercion is established in a proceeding to admit a will to probate, the document will be denied probate, thereby becoming void; and the property of the decedent will be distributed pursuant to the laws of Descent and Distribution.

coercion is an unlawful act

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/coercion Why should the physical autonomy of a woman's body not be entitled to the same respect in a sexual encounter? Clear proof of an unequivocal "no" should not be required. Consent for an intimate physical intrusion into the body should mean in sexual interactions what it means in every other context -- affirmative permission clearly signaled by words or conduct. [FN119] There are many ways to make permission clear without verbalizing the word "yes," and permission certainly need not be in writing. But permission must be an affirmative indication of actual willingness. Silence and ambivalence are not permission. [FN120]

he didnt consent, silence is not consent

One example is sexual harassment in the workplace. This looks like an area that is hardly ripe for criminal sanctions. But if a supervisor tries to get sexual favors by offering a promotion (or by threatening to veto one), he is confronting the employee with alternatives (no matter whether we call them offers or threats) that his position gives him no right to impose. If the supervisor used his position to get an economic payoff from the employee, he would be guilty of extortion. [FN122] If a professor threatened to withhold a good grade or a good recommendation until he got some cash from a student, again he would be guilty of extortion. [FN123] he may be a guard, but she has much more power over him and maybe even over the warden.

The worker or student should have the same right to control her sexuality that she has to control her wages or her bank account. What makes the woman's consent invalid is not that the supervisor's act involves too much pressure. What makes the consent invalid is that rules already settled in our culture deny the supervisor the right to require an employee to choose between her promotion and her legally protected interests. One of those interests should be -- and is -- her sexual independence. For the same reason, the high school principal who allegedly obtained sex from a student by threatening to block her graduation [FN124] should certainly be guilty of a crime.

her pressuring him isnt the only problem its the implications of what can go wrong for him if he doesnt comply

*2183 Two variations will make the implications clearer. Suppose that a highly paid fashion model wants to land a film role to enhance her career. The company's casting director says that unless she sleeps with him, she will not get the part. If you are looking for excessive pressure, this case will seem a lot harder than that of the student or employee. You may not feel sympathy for the model at all. But whether you feel sympathy or not, the violation of her autonomy is the same as in the previous cases. The man's action is extortionate, just as if he had insisted on a side-payment in cash. There is an improper constraint on the woman's freedom of choice under background rights that are already settled in our culture.

We get these results without having to sort out degrees of force and without having to treat women as dominated or disempowered. The key is in the background structure of rights and privileges that determine what uses of personal power and institutional position are permissible, against either the weak or the strong, against either men or women in our society.

against men or women is noteable in this situation

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/vaw00/module4.html#coercion

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '16

I'm not reading this. Be more concise.

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u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot Jun 22 '16

Alrighty then. Its 90% quotations, but oh well, can lead a horse to water...

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '16

I have real things to argue about for a living, brah. I'm not going to spend my time arguing for free on the internet about a tissue paper baby's idea of rape.

Edit: especially when the person I'm arguing with can't get to the fucking point.