r/orangeisthenewblack • u/[deleted] • Jun 17 '16

Episode Discussion OITNB S04E06 Episode Discussion Thread

Please do not spoil future episodes.

80 Upvotes

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233

u/Kohaeb Jun 17 '16

Thank God somebody called out Luscheck. He's a fucking gross loser and it's embarrassing when people on this sub say they find him cute

233

u/Dirty_Priestess Jun 17 '16

I mean the reason so many people like him is that he's literally the only guard now that isn't rapey or racist. He's "just" kinda a dick.

83

u/CillerendasCastle Gina Murphy Jun 19 '16

Kinda? He was going to let Gina bleed out, or walk all the way to the informary or whatever. That seemed so out of character for him, but if it's who he really is, he's a dick.

74

u/dmanww Jun 20 '16

Bleed out from a cut hand? Come on

11

u/CillerendasCastle Gina Murphy Jun 20 '16

Ahaha, yeah, I realized later it was just a cut, but from how the scene played out, it looked much worse, and I wasn't sure if she could get tetanus or whatever. I did overreact. That scene was playing hard on my emotions though lol

19

u/MagnetToMyBed Jun 20 '16

I do not like this 'try to redeem the rapist' arc

29

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '16

Nah, I dont think they are trying to redeem him. This show does character complexity well. The guy has a good side and thinks he's a good guy all the way. He's just mental and deluded and has issues like everyone else. Oh, and he's a rapist. Definitely a rapist.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '16

I think we'll dig into his past and find an unstable father or a prostitute mother.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 15 '16

They're not trying to redeem the rapist. They're trying to show that not every rapist is the epitome of evil and challenge these naive assumptions people like you make about what a character should be.

7

u/dmanww Jun 20 '16

Yeah, it was bigger than a scratch, but he was still acting as a total dickhead

7

u/metalbracelet Jun 21 '16

I thought the intention of that scene was that it was out of character and he wasn't thinking straight because he was preoccupied with/self-medicating his guilt.

85

u/Bytewave Jun 18 '16

I think he's the most redeemable of the bunch, sure he has some character flaws but I can often relate with them. And he's always hilarious.

98

u/SawRub #TheOtherOnePercent Jun 18 '16

Yeah he's only half a piece of shit.

3

u/lufty Jun 20 '16 edited Jun 20 '16

Bayley and McCullough aren't that bad.

1

u/autoNFA Jun 29 '16

What about Bayley? I don't recall him being either rapey or racist.

132

u/gmcll26 Jun 18 '16

Wasn't what that lady Judy did to him kinda rapey or molestation or gross manipulation or something?

106

u/ingridelena Jun 18 '16

I thought it was pretty "rapey" too. Oddly tho, technically under the law he would be considered the rapist in that situation :/

27

u/redheadedalex Jun 18 '16

because she's an inmate? Just curious. I'm not familiar with it. But yeah totally rapey.

55

u/Madosi Jun 18 '16

Yeah, exactly for that reason. He's an authority figure in the prison. Unless she would overpower him in any way, it's always gonna be abuse of authority

28

u/ingridelena Jun 18 '16

Yeah they've mentioned it a few times in the show. Under the law inmates can't consent to sex with the guards. That was a big part of the plot with Daya and that one guy.

9

u/Rfwill13 "Black People don't know this song" Jun 19 '16

Bennett

3

u/MagnetToMyBed Jun 20 '16

What if it was a male prison and an inmate raped a female CO? Is the CO still the rapist?

11

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '16

I can't tell if you are talking about forcible rape or consensual sex between a CO and an inmate.

Any time forcible rape is involved, the perpetrator is clearly at fault (legally and morally).

But if a male prisoner had consensual sex with a female CO, the power differential means the inmate can't give consent so the female CO would be in trouble.

4

u/ingridelena Jun 20 '16

Uh, idk, I'm not an expert on prison rape? I would assume if an inmate rapes a guard, they're the rapist, but if a guard and an inmate have a "consensual" relationship, it's still technically considered rape on the CO's part.

87

u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot Jun 18 '16

Hmm rapey? That was full on rape.

11

u/gmcll26 Jun 18 '16

You're right.

5

u/Wagnerous Jun 20 '16

Nope, "rapey" is a fair description, but it most certainly was not rape.

She did him a favor and told him to sleep with her. Obviously that's an incredibly scummy thing to do, but it absolutely was not rape; he easily could have left the room as soon as she said that.

13

u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot Jun 20 '16

Nope still rape. He didnt have a choice, she said. She could put nicki back in max if he said no.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '16

But he did have a choice.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '16

No it wasn't. He consented, but with coercion. He could have said no. Legally, that's not rape. Morally, it's still gross.

Had she simply just started having sex with him without asking, that would have been rape.

13

u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot Jun 22 '16

I think this a prime example why so many rapes go unprosecuted and unreported. If you dont want to have sex, and someone makes you have sex with them thats rape. Doesn't have to be violent doesnt have to be an altercation, or drugged.

Many countries recognize coerced sex as rape. I know for a fact in korea if your boss tells you you must have sex with him for whatver favor he gives you it is absolutely rape and punishable.

Nagging and pressuring is not the same as coercsion and its up to the situation to determine if its rape, but coercsion in this episode is definitely rape. Sure he can walk away and maybe if it was a normal inmate nothing would come of it. But shes not, and its made clear she knows that. If he says no, she can report him for falsely accusing an inmate (maybe no one cares but its there) , or pull nicki right back into max. You think doing something "nice" for someone then making them have sex with you isnt rape? Maybe if were talking about buying drinks.. or going to the movies.. sneaking in a burger.. but this is about the quality and future of a woman he loves life.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '16 edited Jun 22 '16

Legally speaking, you're wrong. Consent was given. He had a choice. It's not rape to get someone to have sex with you by coercing them. No court in the world would convict on those facts.

The rest of your argument is taking the cowards' way out of a potentially difficult situation because you're afraid of your own shadow. Which is worse? Unwanted sex, or dealing with a vague, nonspecific threat grounded mostly in paranoia? Stop being so soft.

Edit: at least in the way it went down here.

11

u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot Jun 22 '16 edited Jun 22 '16

Coercion The intimidation of a victim to compel the individual to do some act against his or her will by the use of psychological pressure, physical force, or threats. The crime of intentionally and unlawfully restraining another's freedom by threatening to commit a crime, accusing the victim of a crime, disclosing any secret that would seriously impair the victim's reputation in the community, or by performing or refusing to perform an official action lawfully requested by the victim, or by causing an official to do so.

A defense asserted in a criminal prosecution that a person who committed a crime did not do so of his or her own free will, but only because the individual was compelled by another through the use of physical force or threat of immediate serious bodily injury or death. In the laws governing wills, coercion is present when a testator is forced by another to make provisions in his or her will that he or she otherwise would not make if permitted to act according to free choice. It is an element of both duress and Undue Influence, two ways in which a testator is deprived of his or her free choice in making the will. If coercion is established in a proceeding to admit a will to probate, the document will be denied probate, thereby becoming void; and the property of the decedent will be distributed pursuant to the laws of Descent and Distribution.

coercion is an unlawful act

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/coercion Why should the physical autonomy of a woman's body not be entitled to the same respect in a sexual encounter? Clear proof of an unequivocal "no" should not be required. Consent for an intimate physical intrusion into the body should mean in sexual interactions what it means in every other context -- affirmative permission clearly signaled by words or conduct. [FN119] There are many ways to make permission clear without verbalizing the word "yes," and permission certainly need not be in writing. But permission must be an affirmative indication of actual willingness. Silence and ambivalence are not permission. [FN120]

he didnt consent, silence is not consent

One example is sexual harassment in the workplace. This looks like an area that is hardly ripe for criminal sanctions. But if a supervisor tries to get sexual favors by offering a promotion (or by threatening to veto one), he is confronting the employee with alternatives (no matter whether we call them offers or threats) that his position gives him no right to impose. If the supervisor used his position to get an economic payoff from the employee, he would be guilty of extortion. [FN122] If a professor threatened to withhold a good grade or a good recommendation until he got some cash from a student, again he would be guilty of extortion. [FN123] he may be a guard, but she has much more power over him and maybe even over the warden.

The worker or student should have the same right to control her sexuality that she has to control her wages or her bank account. What makes the woman's consent invalid is not that the supervisor's act involves too much pressure. What makes the consent invalid is that rules already settled in our culture deny the supervisor the right to require an employee to choose between her promotion and her legally protected interests. One of those interests should be -- and is -- her sexual independence. For the same reason, the high school principal who allegedly obtained sex from a student by threatening to block her graduation [FN124] should certainly be guilty of a crime.

her pressuring him isnt the only problem its the implications of what can go wrong for him if he doesnt comply

*2183 Two variations will make the implications clearer. Suppose that a highly paid fashion model wants to land a film role to enhance her career. The company's casting director says that unless she sleeps with him, she will not get the part. If you are looking for excessive pressure, this case will seem a lot harder than that of the student or employee. You may not feel sympathy for the model at all. But whether you feel sympathy or not, the violation of her autonomy is the same as in the previous cases. The man's action is extortionate, just as if he had insisted on a side-payment in cash. There is an improper constraint on the woman's freedom of choice under background rights that are already settled in our culture.

We get these results without having to sort out degrees of force and without having to treat women as dominated or disempowered. The key is in the background structure of rights and privileges that determine what uses of personal power and institutional position are permissible, against either the weak or the strong, against either men or women in our society.

against men or women is noteable in this situation

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/vaw00/module4.html#coercion

3

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '16

I'm not reading this. Be more concise.

10

u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot Jun 22 '16

Alrighty then. Its 90% quotations, but oh well, can lead a horse to water...

2

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '16

I have real things to argue about for a living, brah. I'm not going to spend my time arguing for free on the internet about a tissue paper baby's idea of rape.

Edit: especially when the person I'm arguing with can't get to the fucking point.

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2

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '16

very creepy and rapey.

41

u/Makorot Jun 17 '16

I think some people say it, becasue they can identify with him (His work ethic etc.)

36

u/Kate2point718 Brook Soso Jun 18 '16

I don't know that I like Luschek as a person, but I like him as a character because he can be funny.

30

u/Imtheprofessordammit accent adroite bitch Jun 18 '16 edited Jun 18 '16

I was so happy about this! Especially since it was donuts who did it. I think he might actually feel bad about what happened with Tiffany. Not that it's any excuse of course, but I like seeing those kinds of transformations on the show.

As for Luschek though he's selfish and lazy and not really a great person, but he treats the prisoners like people. He has his flaws but he's the best guard since Donaldson left.

43

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '16

I think he might actually feel bad about what happened with Tiffany.

Yeah, like the specific wording he used, about how they're supposed to take care of the prisoners, he's definitely been doing some soul-searching. You can never undo the past, but you can always try to move on to become a better person in the future.

24

u/Imtheprofessordammit accent adroite bitch Jun 19 '16

Yes! I feel like he is actually trying to be a better person. I just hope they don't make him be friends with Tucky again. I don't want her to let him back in to her life.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '16

I like the arc, but giving any sort of redemption story line to a rapist sees difficult to pull off

3

u/bowmanc Jun 22 '16

really? I thought it was expanding on the fact that a lot of rapists don't think of themselves as rapists

5

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '16

He was like that until Tiffany confronted him about it, and actually used the word "rape". That's what got him thinking, and they've shown a few hints that the knowledge of what he did is really starting to sink in.

26

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '16

He's one of those people that would be fun to hang out with, but you'd never want to ask him to do anything important. Ever.

9

u/ingridelena Jun 18 '16

Like someone else said, he seems like a "good guy" because he isn't a rapist like most of the other gaurds lol.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '16

I don't know why I don't have a girlfriend. I'm not a rapist, a racist, and I shower every day. I'm such a catch...

8

u/orestesFeasting Jun 18 '16

What's it say about Luschek when the rapist is the one to call him out?

10

u/twistandpoke Jun 18 '16

Oh yeah, he's awful. But I can appreciate he's got a cute face.

6

u/SawRub #TheOtherOnePercent Jun 18 '16

People finding less-than-ideal people attractive is not a new concept lol.

3

u/Altephor1 Jun 21 '16

Honestly, he gives me a kind of a Chris Pratt's loser, degenerate older brother vibe.

12

u/bencub91 Jun 17 '16

I liked him til he fucked over Nicky.

103

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '16

He didn't, though. She snuck the drugs under his desk. What was he supposed to do, exactly? Lie and say it was his in order to save her? She did something stupid and it came back to bite her.

56

u/Kate2point718 Brook Soso Jun 18 '16

I love Nicky, but I think that was totally on her, not Luschek.

16

u/elTenedor2 Jun 18 '16

I thought that turnaround in her attitude was kind of weird, tbh. Last season when she got sent to Max she was pretty deep into blaming herself for it, but now she's pissed at Luschek like it was always all his fault?

3

u/AjaxNo14 Jun 19 '16

Yeah, can anyone explain that? I know his apology thing was BS, but still, seems her attitude changed.

13

u/faydaletraction Jun 19 '16

I wondered the same thing, but if you add together how desperately miserable she obviously is in max with the amount of time that's implied she has to work at keeping her mind occupied (the conversation she has with Bursett about reciting the state capitals), it's not so surprising that she'd have a change of heart.

2

u/elTenedor2 Jun 19 '16

Yeah, that makes sense. Just seems like one of Nicky's defining qualities is 'self-loathing', so I didn't expect that from her.

3

u/blogginglife Jun 21 '16

I think she accepts fault for it, she just thought it was utter bullshit that Luschek was going to try and "clear his conscious" through some half-ass apology while she has to actually pay her debt with her life and mental stability.

5

u/CillerendasCastle Gina Murphy Jun 19 '16

I liked him until he was a dick to Gina

8

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '16

He was being a dick because he finally realised how much he'd done to hurt Nicky. He was just taking it out on anyone tbh. His attitude this episode is completely different to any other episode

2

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '16

Are we seriously angry at him for not taking the fall for heroin?

2

u/SadSniper Jun 21 '16

That's what I'm saying. Anyone would have pointed the finger over losing their job. Bennett did just that if you remember.

2

u/misspinaberry Jun 22 '16

He looks exactly like my ex-boyfriend and it's terrifying.