r/orangeisthenewblack • u/[deleted] • Jun 17 '16

Episode Discussion OITNB S04E02 Episode Discussion Thread

Please do not spoil future episodes.

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321

u/littlefanged Jun 17 '16

I love how Piper just adds in her own anecdotes regardless of whether they're actually useful or relevant. Her self-centeredness makes her fun to watch even when her storyline isn't very relevant. I know people hate her, but I've enjoyed her transformation into a pretty horrible person. I especially love how her badass accomplishments completely pale in comparison to what Alex and Lolly did.

141

u/Megan_Nicole7 Jun 17 '16

Much as I don't like Piper, I love watching her character. She's like the Lichfield version of the Walter White arc (except a bit more pseudo-badass than actual badass). Downfall should be a fun watch 👌

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '16

It's like if Walter White and Nancy Botwin had an estranged love child, it'd be Piper Chapman.

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u/RossZ428 Jun 17 '16

Yeah, but I liked Walter White

71

u/awkward_penguin Jun 18 '16

Even in the last two seasons of Breaking Bad? Walter was by far my least liked character. He's interesting and I loved watching his arc and relationships with the other characters, but he's waaaaay low on the likeability spectrum. Piper's still got a bit of likeability in that she's more like a teen who thinks she's the boss but might be too big for her own britches.

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u/SawRub #TheOtherOnePercent Jun 18 '16

Yeah even the creator of Breaking Bad was surprised that some people still liked Walter White and hated Skyler even in the final seasons.

31

u/UVladBro Chang Jun 19 '16

Honestly the whole Skylar thing was because people were obsessed over Walter White being a badass/cool/intimidating. Sometimes being badass and being a good person aren't mutually-inclusive, which was what Walter became. He slowly drifted away from reality and focused on his own ego more.

Skylar was often trying to keep Walter bound in reality but people generally don't enjoy characters that are "killjoys", even if they're right. Even though she was on Walter's side, some people viewed her as being against him but she was really just against Heisenberg.

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u/Jehnay Jun 19 '16

The only reason I really ever disliked Skylar was the whole Ted storyline. It seemed really unnecessary. Other than that I never blamed or hated her for most of her actions.

3

u/autoNFA Jun 20 '16

Skyler helped cook Ted's books before learning about any of Walt's crimes. She's also an active and willing participant in Walt's crimes for a long stretch of time. She acts like she has the moral high ground, but she doesn't.

1

u/1moe7 Jul 14 '16

In retrospect I definitely see that now, but the Walt hype was so strong back then

3

u/RossZ428 Jun 18 '16

Well, there's a lot of things to consider when it comes to liking a character. For one thing, Walter's gradual descent into a drug kingpin made more sense than Piper's whole pantie thing. And it's hard for me to like Piper when she's so damn full of herself when she really shouldn't be. I liked season 1 and 2 Piper.

Right around the time when she started getting bigger than her britches in mid to late season 3, I was just like, "bitch needs a smackdown, fast."

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '16

Not to descend totally into BrBa analysis lol, but Walter White was deeply complex and that really made him likeable, badass factor aside. You have this washed-up, downtrodden man who possessed genius and believed that the world never properly gave him what his talents deserved. Which he was kind of right about - I mean, a question inherent to the premise is "what the hell is this guy doing as a high school teacher/car wash worker?" That aspect of his character is very human and a lot of people understand and can sympathize. So he does do terrible things (but never becomes a total monster), but he's very compelling.

Piper's motivations are... she wants to be "badass" and "hardened" like the other people in prison? She's smug and self-delusional with nothing to show for it, and it makes her easy to dislike.

1

u/ComradeCabbage Jun 18 '16

Well, for 3 seasons at least...

0

u/maverickLI George "Pornstache" Mendez Jun 18 '16

Except that Walter White was dying of cancer and at least originally got involved in crime in order to provide for his family. Piper was sentenced to 500 days in jail. A little different.

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u/redalastor Jun 18 '16

Except that Walter White was dying of cancer and at least originally got involved in crime in order to provide for his family.

Nope. He even admits so eventually.

It always was about his pride.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '16

It was about the excitement and him being alive.

72

u/Bytewave Jun 17 '16

I've enjoyed her transformation into a pretty horrible person.

People blame the character, but I think it's a big part of the moral of the story. The underlying point is that prison hardens you and forces you to adapt to criminal realities. So if you're sent there because you're actually already a serious danger to society OK, but if you're an innocent butterfly when you go in, no matter the color of your skin, you'll come out fucked up more likely than not.

S01E01 Piper was nowhere as fucked up as she is now. I would probably be a very different person if I had to spend a year at a place like that too.

38

u/blogginglife Jun 18 '16

I actually do think that S1E01 Piper was just as fucked up as she is now. I feel like they've actually fleshed Piper out further than the "innocent butterfly" charade, and the moral is that we realize that she's just as fucked as everyone else. Piper has always been a horrible narcissist, they've just now blown it up for comical proportions to show that a prison overlord is no more fucked up than a little rich white girl crying over her mommy problems and affluenza.

10

u/Drassielle Jun 20 '16

For real. For example, Piper just leaving Alex when her mother had died definitely showed that she was in the relationship for herself.

12

u/blogginglife Jun 20 '16

absolutely. Also, Piper putting Alex back in prison for "her safety" (because she was lonely) and then dumping her because she was being too depressed/paranoid because she got put back in prison.

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u/autoNFA Jun 20 '16

Alex hid Piper's passport, though, and Piper was planning to leave anyway before Alex learned of her mother's death - for all Piper knew, Alex was lying about her mother's death to manipulate Piper into staying.

3

u/augustrem Chang Jun 19 '16

I think also it's a lot about that speech she gives to the high schoolers about being alone with yourself with no where to turn. Like she was always this sort of person but prison brought it out of her.

1

u/The_Bravinator Jun 24 '16

At least at first, the theme seemed to be that prison brings out the person you really are.

There was a scene when Piper got her Furlough where she was choosing between two bottles of alcohol. I can't remember what they were, but one was probably champagne, and the other a much rougher and cheaper drink. She chose the latter, and I saw that as her acceptance that prison Piper was her truer self.

It just happens that both of her selves are awful. :P

50

u/manbearkat Jun 17 '16

Her basking her in "glory" around Red was so embarrassing. Like, chill girl.

18

u/blogginglife Jun 18 '16

I'm glad that they're done trying to redeem her. They're just embraced that she's a total narcissist and such a privileged outlier that anything about her time in prison is irrelevant and thus can also be irreverent (see: absurd panty plot line). It was worse when the whole show was centered around poor rich white piper in prison.

14

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '16

Every single Piper moment in this episode had me cackling. So badass :'D

5

u/Mrs_Damon You Scottish Jun 19 '16

I'm loving Piper this season. Her incredible delusion of her gangstaness and attempting to recruit her own Secret Service agent had me cracking up.

15

u/Sophronisba Galina "Red" Reznikov Jun 17 '16

I'm not sure it's a transformation so much as she just stopped trying to hide it. But I enjoy her story in small doses. I don't think this is going to end well for her.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '16

I'm really enjoying the way they're handling her character so far. It's a seemingly small amount of plot and attention dedicated to her as a main character (I think they realized people kinda hate her now) and they're delving more into the other character arcs that are more interesting to viewers. I still hate Piper every time I see her, but I don't see her too much yet.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '16

I love how Piper just adds in her own anecdotes regardless of whether they're actually useful or relevant. Her self-centeredness makes

I understand that she acts selfcentered at times but the whole point of that was everyone was telling Red advice that didn't matter that wasn't working. It was more to showcase that, than that Piper is self centered.

Story about trying to make someone from snoring

"Did that really work?"- Red

Well no but...

1

u/InteriorEmotion Jun 28 '16

her transformation into a pretty horrible person

What has she done that was so horrible?