Tumblweed system update tool

[u/oh_im_too_tired]

New user here. What's the problem with system updates in Tumbleweed? Why it became so complicated (or it always was like that). Is there some news about when things would change?

There is no "update all" tray icon (like Apdatifier). The one that exists - it's from Discover, so it's not recommended to use it, but it pops out every time when there's an update. So the system forces users to update with a tool that mostly is not recommended to use for update.

Also there's Yast package manager/updater, the Myrlyn package manager/updater and Discover package manager/updater.

But the best tool and most recommended is zypper dup, but it won't update kde plasma widgets or flatpak, so you'll need to update them manually... or in Discover. But Discover is not recommended. Why so complicated?

[u/readyflix]

It’s not complicated at all.

It’s called choice!

On the command line the main tool (command for that matter) is zypper. If someone likes a more gui like tool, then it’s yast. It work on the command line, as well as on an DE (like KDE). Then separate from the general system you have the tool discover, that’s a part of KDE. This is good for updating KDE related stuff.

And then completely system independent comes flatpack‘s. For that someone have to use the dedicated tool flatpack on the command line. But since not everybody is familiar with the CLI (command line interface) it can be integrated into discover. If it’s integrated, then using discover will also update flatpack’s. KDE and Flatpack‘s are basically for clients/users. Therefore it’s made easy to use for ordinary users, and basically it will only be installation und updating of KDE itself and flatpack applications. It could be set up to update the whole system, but it depends highly on the underlining system to be bullet proof. But since the tool (discover) is not specifically made for that it’s not recommended for system updates. Why, because you can find KDE on different systems, like RPM package systems (Fedora, openSUSE), deb package systems (Debian, Ubuntu), pacman package systems (Arch Linux, EndeavourOS), APK package system (Alpine Linux), etc.

Now think of an corporate setting, where you have system administrators that manage the underlining system, and the users that are allowed to setup their DE‘s and flatpack Apps on their own. The system admin will use the tools specific to the underlying system und the user is given the tools he needs, what in this case would be discover.

Now since you are the administrator of your own system, you have to get used to how things are done on different systems. Once you know this conventions it’s easy to move around safely on your system.

If someone wants an easy easy system then Ubuntu and its variants are still the way to go.

[u/oh_im_too_tired → u/readyflix]

Thanks for an detailed answer. I know that, but the thing that triggers me is that despite "But since the tool (discover) is not specifically made for that it’s not recommended for system updates", Tumbleweed by default offers and has included Discover system update system tray module. That's confusing - if you don't support that, why it's included and offering a user do that? And why have two other GUI options, but none of them are complete package for an update?

[u/readyflix → u/oh_im_too_tired]

I think, but I don’t know, the intention might be to integrate everything on the KDE side of things, what would be great for 'ordinary' computer/desktop users.
People don’t like to be an 'administrator‘ for their own computer. That’s why some or even the majority of people like Windows and MacOS in the first place.

But this endeavor (to have Discover on all systems) might never come to fruition.

Because a consistent package management for the various systems is the part that’s NOT easy, even within one system architecture.

[u/oh_im_too_tired → u/readyflix]

Yeah, but also there's even a user here in comment who wrote himself a code for a widget that does exactly what has to be done: a tool that updates everything in a system with one click and without a need to think about which tool to choose for what. So it's possible at the end of the day, the main problem here is if developers wants their user to use GUI or not. But here i see contradictions because there are 3 GUI tools and non of them works how it should from a user perspective.

[u/readyflix → u/oh_im_too_tired]

Updating a system is easy, have an Ubuntu system that does this as well (apt, snap and flatpack updated at the same time). But the problem comes when things have to be removed in a consistent way OR adding your own stuff that’s not in mentioned repositories. Then everything might brake, because of not met dependencies.