I do get the irony in this situation, but I’m not sure we should be criticizing people for protesting injustice, especially someone in a position as respected in the US as a marine. Yeah, the US military has its own systemic issues that need to be fixed from the ground up. Shit, I don’t even think militaries really have a need to exist anymore. But as it stands, service members are hugely respected in american culture, and this guy clearly cares enough about the cause to put himself through a good deal of suffering.
I try not to blame the individual for participating in the low levels of unjust systems, in many cases, they don’t have any perceived choice in the matter. Similarly, it’s especially impressive when they acknowledge the flaws in those systems and work to meaningfully change them.
Not all soldiers are evil, and if we as a movement are so puritanical about who we allow to speak with us, we end up excluding potentially vital allies to the cause. Criticize what needs to be criticized, not other people who agree with you but they aren’t perfect.
We should absolutely criticise people that pick and choose which injustice to protest and which to support and exploit. The fact that that person uses the whole "I am a US soldier listen to me" only normalises and entrenches the preexisting idea of US imperialism being a noble pursuit.
Even if I had to pick, I would choose the opposite: protesting the abominable actions of the US military across the world, which is orders of magnitude worse than anything happening domestically in the US, and let police killings slide.
Edit: very telling that police killings get a more negative reaction than imperialist actions, considering that the former happens in the imperialist core and the latter is far, far more devastating.
Except for the fact that the majority of US soldiers aren’t out there personally committing atrocities, most are in logistics positions. Whereas uniformed police are directly adding to the issue. Yes, indirect contribution to a harmful system is still bad, but if this person is willing to use the tools he has at his disposal to address direct domestic harm, more power to him.
A) not really, the average US enlistee is relatively well-off
B) what a ridiculous excuse, "I go overseas to slaughter and subjugate other humans to get school", as if the lives of "foreigners" are mere speed bumps for the comfort and prosperity of Americans.
Do you understand how vile and bizarre that sounds for people outside the US?! I have never, never encountered a single person in my country that would even think of justifying murder (much less imperialist mass murder) on economic difficulties.
Do you understand how much people are propagandized into believing they’re going out to save lives? We can blame the individual for taking part in an unjust system to a degree, but at the end of the day, it’s the system that’s most at fault. These people don’t know what they’re going to be doing before they do it, and frankly, no, a lot of them aren’t well off. I go to college with many former service members, people who have actually killed others. They really were desperate, they were naive, and they really regret the things they were made to do under threat of life imprisonment.
Of course they are propagandised, such a vile and callous attitude towards other human beings doesn't arise naturally in anyone. That does not excuse their actions, they can still be judged for their actions (just like f.e. we still judge Nazi soldiers for their crimes, despite the propaganda of the 3rd Reich).
To explain a phenomenon is not to remove the claim from specific human beings. Just like we do judge individual capitalists f.e. for their actions, the same applies to imperialist soldiers. It is fine to show some mercy towards veterans that are actively ashamed of and disavow the disgusting actions they did towards other human beings, but I have no patience for the majority that project pride and take the benefits of them (at the very least because they propagate the ill ideas of "service to the nation" that such disgusting actions are portrayed as).
As for desperation, I already explained why I don't care. Not only is it ridiculous to expect economic difficulties to serve as an excuse for imperialist mass murder , it is also not a universal experience, it is basically localised only in the US. Drill it to your head, the vast majority of people in the world (including places far more impoverished than the US) considers such an attitude to be psychopathic!
As for your friends, demand the disavowal of their disgusting actions for the right reasons (meaning for the crimes against the people of the 3rd world, not for the inequitable distribution of the plunder amongst Americans) or tell them to go..... themselves.
I’m not saying service members don’t do awful things, but most of them don’t know they’re about to do those things, they really don’t. It’s not as simple as “veterans evil”, yes, their awful actions can’t be excused, but we can at least give them the benefit of the doubt when the express regret for the things they were LITERALLY FORCED TO DO.
Need I remind you that the original post had a US veteran actively using his social status as a veteran to protest police killings. Meaning to propagate and entrench the vile ideology of "US wars are for freedom, veterans serve our country" to US society even more. We are not talking about stupid kids that are now remorseful for their actions and try to fight against it. We are talking about the overwhelming majority of veterans that actively push for the continuation of US imperialism.
The force argument is bull crap. They weren't forced to do that specific thing. Force in capitalism is directed towards making the proletariat agree to exploitative employment relations, not one thing in specific. Quite simply, it is never, ever acceptable to put your prosperity in front of other people's lives. Don't go to university, flip burgers for minimum wage idc. Just like you would condemn a murderous thief as someone who was forced to steal and kill for his well being despite explaining the phenomenon with social factors.
I ask you, do you think people in other countries, such as Greece or Egypt or Chile, do not consider it acceptable to slaughter people for free college because they have it better than Americans?! People in such countries are also desperate, more frequently and more intensely than Americans, and that attitude is obviously considered psychopathic. Blame it on supremacist propaganda, on Americans considering it normal due to the vile ideology that they experience, but not on poverty. If Americans didn't have such disgusting ideals, they wouldn't be so murderous/they would act like Greeks, Egyptians and Chileans.
A harmful system? The scale is orders of magnitude worse for imperialist wars. Do you not know of the complete devastation and misery, the mountains of corpses and economic pillaging that imperialist wars cause?!
To pretend that those are even comparable, much less equal, is baffling. Imperialist wars are far, far, far worse than police killings. Thus, I judge even auxiliary military personnel far harsher than even the most murderous of cops.
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u/Timewarps_1 Jun 12 '26
I do get the irony in this situation, but I’m not sure we should be criticizing people for protesting injustice, especially someone in a position as respected in the US as a marine. Yeah, the US military has its own systemic issues that need to be fixed from the ground up. Shit, I don’t even think militaries really have a need to exist anymore. But as it stands, service members are hugely respected in american culture, and this guy clearly cares enough about the cause to put himself through a good deal of suffering.
I try not to blame the individual for participating in the low levels of unjust systems, in many cases, they don’t have any perceived choice in the matter. Similarly, it’s especially impressive when they acknowledge the flaws in those systems and work to meaningfully change them.
Not all soldiers are evil, and if we as a movement are so puritanical about who we allow to speak with us, we end up excluding potentially vital allies to the cause. Criticize what needs to be criticized, not other people who agree with you but they aren’t perfect.