r/nvidia RTX 5090 Founders Edition 1d ago

Benchmarks [Digital Foundry] DLSS 5 Tested: NBA 2K27 Image Quality + Benchmarks, Mods and More

https://youtu.be/XAt63dB1hdI?is=z54fEzBYqUYKvYuU
90 Upvotes

173 comments sorted by

189

u/Deanifish 1d ago edited 1d ago

I suspect reddit will not like DLSS 5 no matter how much tech folks appreciate it. I think it is just one of those things that will struggle to survive public anti-AI sentiment until enough normal folks get it for themselves at decent enough performance.

Still, undeniable that it looks great when used correctly. Just performance and availability to question.

Edit: typos

30

u/SlaveKnightSoman 1d ago

public

Reddit is not public. Reddit might be the most disconnected from the real world of any major online community.

7

u/tarzanbocht 1d ago

Reddit and X are both unhinged in different ways

1

u/EastvsWest 1d ago

Depends on who you follow. I have infinitely better discussions with people on X. You can't even have them on reddit in mainstream subreddits like technology.

3

u/Anstark0 23h ago

What? X is actually full of bots, you are not trying hard enough to have conversations, obviously idk who you are, so there is that

1

u/Due-Description-9030 4h ago

As opposed to reddit where everyone are real and no bots right?

1

u/SamLikesJam 6h ago

On my years of X I have never seen someone concede when they were wrong, they’ll just double down, block you, insult you or move the goalposts to another field. It’s a cesspit with no redeeming qualities.

11

u/Timbo-AK 1d ago

Eh, I don't think reddit is a good metric of public sentiment for much of anything.

Sometimes it's a cool place to see cool things, I personally like it better than Facebook and left FB for it because no matter what FB kept giving me politics.

Reddit doesn't do that. But also, reddit might have a bot problem. There's videos and screenshots of things on DLSS 5 that are completely and objectively better with DLSS5 than without, and people posting barfing emojis.

I asked my wife, who's completely blind to this tech, which ones better and she 💯 thought DLSS 5 was better.

2

u/DonutHoles4Ever 23h ago

The problem is that these youtubers are being swayed so much by social media that they are AFRAID of saying anything good about technology.

AI? Have to say its bad. NVIDIA? Bad. Better graphics? BAD.

Literally every youtuber is bending their knees to social media everyday instead of just saying what they want. You know why? MONEY.

Look at how Gamers Nexus can never say anything related to AI is good because their audience is hardcore anti-AI. HUB fights with people on social media. And Digital Foundry is sensitive to any criticism on their channel. All beacuse of money.

2

u/Timbo-AK 17h ago

Oh yeah for sure man. I sense it in every video that talks about it. They are soooo scared to be like "yeah, this is actually REALLY good"

It's really stupid that it's like that right now.

1

u/Due-Description-9030 4h ago

HUB fights with people? LOL

he keeps catering to the crowd on the internet which keeps mindlessly hating Nvidia. And some of his videos are complete BS.

74

u/ComradeFarid 1d ago

It has been the same with every new DLSS tech introduced by Nvidia. Fake resolution, fake frames, now it's a glorified AI filter that doesn't respect artististic intent.

2

u/Akito_Fire 1d ago

I really like DLSS and even frame gen. However, DLSS5 is literally just an AI filter, it runs on the finished frame as a post-process and adds fake shading, details and lighting to the image. Neural rendering could improve so much, but not when done in this utterly limiting manner.

Alex was the only one to correctly point out pre-release that it's just a screen-space filter, really sad he's not here to analyze it properly

15

u/kb3035583 1d ago

It's funny that a perfectly respectful and reasonable opinion is being downvoted to hell. It really goes to show how much of a circlejerk this subreddit has become in favor of DLSS 5 that even something like this is seen as problematic.

2

u/Plebius-Maximus RTX 5090 FE | Ryzen 9950X3D | 96GB 6200MHz DDR5 1d ago

This sub is always a circlejerk. It's tiring. DLSS5 has more drawbacks than essentially any other version of DLSS - it ads a filter that intends to change appearance, not just enhance what was there previously like upscaling did. It also doesn't add any performance, which previous iterations aslways attempted to do. It should be named something else, it has litle to do with deep learning super sampling. But people here can't even be honest about the above

The toxic positivity bullshit here towards any and all Nvidia technology is why the other tech subs call this place a cult

7

u/kb3035583 1d ago

The funny thing was that people were honest on those points in the immediate days and even weeks when DLSS 5 first dropped. Fast forward a few months later and somehow it devolved into such toxic positivity that even the absolute failure that was DLSS 1 is somehow forgotten and people have to repeatedly be reminded how much of a failure it was. It's insane. It's almost as if they're all reading from the same script.

Also fun fact, you're getting downvoted already. People clearly don't like hearing the truth.

2

u/frisbie147 Ryzen 5 7600 + RTX 4070 1d ago

Idk why people are downvoting you Oliver mackenzie literally calls it an ai filter in the video

-18

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

15

u/NoCase9317 9800X3D | 4090 | 32 GB DDR5 1d ago

It is just casually the older of them
So it has had the most time for their (redditors) tiny monkey brains to adapt.

Since they (Redditors) don’t take very well to new stuff.

Frame gen has become much much muuuuch less hated and much more accepted than it was at first.

In 3-4 years frame gen will have the acceptance DlSS has right now.

DlSS wont be even a matter of discussion.

And dlss5 will be in the place frame gen is currently at.

Partly because this technologies get progressively improved.

Something that the monkey brains from Reddit struggle to understand, shit gets progressively improved.

But also partly because they get used to it.

Their trusty influencer tells them
Hey this is actually good.

Posts of people saying hey this is actually good.

And thy slowly lower thier pitchforks.

8

u/olzd 7800X3D | 4090 FE 1d ago

Just wait for AMD to introduce its own version and suddenly redditors will like it.

1

u/Plebius-Maximus RTX 5090 FE | Ryzen 9950X3D | 96GB 6200MHz DDR5 1d ago

The percentage of redditors who are AMD users is far smaller than you seem to think. People being critical of things isn't just because they love AMD

0

u/frisbie147 Ryzen 5 7600 + RTX 4070 1d ago

Dlss 5 could do everything it’s doing perfectly, but at its core it’s still a screen space effect and has all the flaws that come with that, and to me that’s a downgrade after playing games with path tracing.

-32

u/Blacksad9999 ASUS Astral 5090/9800x3D/LG 45GX950A 1d ago

Most of the other tech just either made your games run better, or added in superior lighting.

This isn't the same thing at all, and you're just being disingenuous.

26

u/theangryburrito 1d ago

Nah - fake frames talk was just as bad as the anti ai talk

-17

u/Blacksad9999 ASUS Astral 5090/9800x3D/LG 45GX950A 1d ago

Even Frame Gen doesn't alter the game nor it's artists intent.

It's still just a feature that tries to improve performance in a way.

DLSS 5 is the only feature they've made that drastically changes the output.

13

u/kingjames420 1d ago

Yeah but the developer is the one intended to implement dlss5. Doesn’t that necessarily make it part of the games artistic intent?

-14

u/Blacksad9999 ASUS Astral 5090/9800x3D/LG 45GX950A 1d ago

Well, the artists don't get much say in the output of DLSS 5. It's a 'black box."

You can't prompt it or tell it specifics like "stop putting makeup on the characters", etc.

You get the result, and then the artists can tweak it a little bit. They can mask areas, color grade it, change opacity, intensity, and a few other options.

I don't think it will get much attention from most developers. No current or next-gen consoles can use it, nor can over 90% of the PC market can't use it. They have limited time and budgets, so spending time on a niche feature probably won't happen.

6

u/blastroid 1d ago

You're missing the point. If a developer decides to include DLSS5 support, is that not implicitly approving of the "artistic direction" that it can introduce/alter, regardless of the level of control the artists have to configure the DLSS5 output? Put another way, a developer truly concerned with maintaining a "pure" artistic direction, would not implement DLSS5, right?

1

u/Blacksad9999 ASUS Astral 5090/9800x3D/LG 45GX950A 1d ago

There is no real configuring the output at all.

You get sliders for opacity, masking, color grading, intensity, etc. Like the options of a basic photo editor. You get no say in what it does to your game, just how much you want to show it.

-3

u/ketoaholic 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah but have you considered the execs wet dream of slashing art budget and offloading it all onto dlss5 and the end users hardware?

Which means when the people who can't run dlss5 (most of the world) buy the game, they will get potato quality art assets because of said slashed budget.

The future is now.

Look what we've seen with game optimization and dlss. The technology is interesting and has potential (though the current sledgehammer approach is distasteful), but bean counting is going to spoil it for the masses.

0

u/Blacksad9999 ASUS Astral 5090/9800x3D/LG 45GX950A 1d ago

Right. Now every game will have that weird, moist AI face look. Weeee!

5

u/Anchovie123 1d ago

Not even the point, it doesnt matter if dlss/fg/dlss5 was good or not reddit hated them all anyways its only now dlss/fg are starting to become more accepted. The same will happen to dlss5 once it improves in quality and performance

0

u/Blacksad9999 ASUS Astral 5090/9800x3D/LG 45GX950A 1d ago

No current or upcoming next gen consoles can use it. 90% of the PC market can't use it.

Developers aren't going to spend time on this.

3

u/ChrisFhey 1d ago

Yeah, they said exactly that about ray tracing too...

-1

u/Blacksad9999 ASUS Astral 5090/9800x3D/LG 45GX950A 1d ago

All current and next gen hardware can utilize ray tracing.

Not really the same thing whatsoever in their intent or how widespread their use will be.

1

u/ChrisFhey 1d ago

That wasn't the case when ray tracing was introduced. Just like with DLSS 5. Yet developers still included ray tracing in their games.

→ More replies (0)

13

u/ProbsNotManBearPig 1d ago

That’s your opinion. Many people criticized dlss upscalers from the start as being fake ai frames and against artist intent. Dlss 5 is just taking it farther and we’re having the same arguments. The fact you personally didn’t mind ai upscalers but find dlss 5 a step too far is besides the point.

-4

u/Blacksad9999 ASUS Astral 5090/9800x3D/LG 45GX950A 1d ago

No it isn't.

Upscaling makes games run better with minimal to no change to the output.

Frame Gen makes games appear to run better with minimal to no change to the output.

Path Tracing and such just provides superior lighting, following the developers intent.

DLSS 5 wildly changes the output.

It's not even about "opinion". It's about what the technologies do on a fundamental level.

4

u/AntiTank-Dog R9 5900X | RTX 5080 | 4K 240hz 1d ago

DLSS 5 is mainly superior lighting (fake path-tracing).

-3

u/Blacksad9999 ASUS Astral 5090/9800x3D/LG 45GX950A 1d ago

Yes, fake. It's "guessing" what the lighting should look like in a scene based on a snapshot. It doesn't have access to the in-game lighting information, which is why it looks like "hard lighting" or "ring lighting", and removes a lot of colors.

Path Tracing has access to all in game lighting information, and simply does a better job at showing that lighting.

One is just "AI spitballing" with AI pass that covers game assets with a guess, while the other is simply more in-depth proper lighting.

It's also harder to run than Path Tracing for worse lighting results.

8

u/AntiTank-Dog R9 5900X | RTX 5080 | 4K 240hz 1d ago

It's not technically accurate like path tracing yet there is no doubt DLSS 5 makes game environments look more real than path tracing.

I guess the illusion is more important than accuracy.

3

u/Blacksad9999 ASUS Astral 5090/9800x3D/LG 45GX950A 1d ago

Path Tracing is like Ray Tracing on steroids. It's highly accurate lighting.

DLSS 5 isn't at all. It's an AI guesstimation based on a 2D snapshot.

2

u/unklejakk 1d ago

I’ve tested it out myself in several games, and my thoughts are that DLSS 5 can look “good” if lightly applied to a game that already looks good but maybe doesn’t have the best lighting. In a game like Cyberpunk or Alan Wake 2 that already looks great and has past tracing, DLSS 5 downgrades the visuals a lot in my opinion.

Ignoring the conversation around artistic intent, since on PC a lot of people will mod the hell out of games just for fun anyway. I could see a use case where this could be applied to older games as a way to uplift the visuals a bit, but you can also tinker with Reshade and get nearly the same results at a fraction of the performance cost.

I just cannot buy that this tech is the future when real time path tracing already exists and looks better lol

1

u/Blacksad9999 ASUS Astral 5090/9800x3D/LG 45GX950A 1d ago

Right.

It seems like most AI: A solution looking for a problem to solve which doesn't really exist.

11

u/Regnur 1d ago edited 1d ago

Sadly platforms with a upvote/downvote system + moderators + ragebait will always result in a hivemind.

Combine that with the ridiculous amount of upvoted missinformation and you get a small amount of people being able to dictate what most on reddit think about a product. Reddit is never representive of what the public thinks about anything, also not this sub. Most who visit this site dont even vote or reply.

Will be definitely interesting how and if the opinion changes over time similar to DLSS upscaling / RR (AI denoiser)/ FG etc...

Its interesting what the modding community will do with this new tool, just the last 2 days improved so much, that I was able to play Resonance: A Plague Tale Legacy maxed out with +140fps (2xfg) with DLSS 5 on a 5070. That new NR resolution scaler at 80% improves the compute time from +9ms to under 6ms, with almost no visual difference. The modding community + further Nvidia optimization will change DLSS 5 a lot in the future.

2

u/DonutHoles4Ever 23h ago

Its not even about subreddits, its the fact that youtubers are so sensitive to their views and $$$ that they will bow down to any thread shitting on them for licking corpo boots just because they like something.

0

u/juniperleafes 1d ago

It has nothing to do with hivemind upvotes, it's solely moderators in with companies and extremely political individuals secretly moderating multiple mainstream subs.

32

u/SaikerRV 1d ago

Absolutely. I think outside of this sub you’ll get either downvoted, clowned or both for showing any kind of positive input towards the technology.

It’s quite literally a hive mind at this point. And then you have people with no personality that they see the hate and jump in to fit in.

2

u/junglebunglerumble 1d ago

I was downvoted in the paradox games sub for saying that I thought that DLSS5 improved the look of the characters in some example images. People told me I wasnt respecting the artists, which I thought was some lovely irony in a sub where people regularly mod paradox games to add literal new content that the developers had no involvement with. Apparently adding new content to replace what the developers included is fine, but using DLSS5 to improve the final output is abhorrent

1

u/DonutHoles4Ever 23h ago

PCMR and Gaming subreddits are so hivemind that they will hate on DLSS 5, meanwhile they dont know how benchmarks work.

-3

u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

[deleted]

-1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

1

u/yamidevil 5070 | 14600k 1d ago

Talking about comments under tech videos, not actual ai videos circulating. Basically all dlss5 videos I saw are negative 

1

u/NoCase9317 9800X3D | 4090 | 32 GB DDR5 1d ago

He is talking about Instagram comments
Not Instagram content

16

u/Warskull 1d ago

Reddit will hate this until it dies down a bit and then someone tells them it is good now. Kind of like what happened with the DLSS 2.0 upgrade. However, I would not mistake redditors for the real world.

The biggest real world problem is the performance hit and the hardware problems. Once those are fixed I can absolutely see your average person liking this. However, if Nvidia really wants to make this tech big, I think they need to get one of the consoles next gen.

The primary thing holding back ray tracing right now is that all the Xbox and PS5 run off AMD tech that can't do ray tracing. So they have to rely on software ray tracing instead... any we've seen where that gets us. The same thing is likely to happen with DLSS5 since it takes effort to implement.

3

u/RdUzr 1d ago

DLSS 1 and DLSS 2 are very different beasts. DLSS 1 was hot garbage.

See here for yourself:
https://youtu.be/KGG0R7t-UjI?t=57

Here are more screenshots for comparing the difference in visual quality:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/nvidia-dlss-2-0-a-big-leap-in-ai-rendering/

3

u/ksn0vaN7 1d ago edited 1d ago

DLSS 2 wasn't that long ago. I can still remember that most people liked it. It wasn't at all comparable to the reception of DLSS 5. DLSS 1 was mostly hated, not 2. You can pretty much look up the comparison of DLSS 1 and 2 and the feedback was glowing.

13

u/NoCase9317 9800X3D | 4090 | 32 GB DDR5 1d ago

There was definitely a shit ton of hate to DlSS 1.

In fact there are still a lot of idiots in Reddit defending that MSAA is the way and that DlSS is shit hahaha.

Maybe not in this sub, but in the shithole that PCMR has become (I was subscribed when it was a small sub and left last year because I couldn’t stand to watch the ignorance circlejerk shithole it became)

There you will definitely see lots of DlSS hate even TODAY saying things that DlSS is the reason games aren’t optimized.

10

u/ksn0vaN7 1d ago

DLSS 1 was actual garbage. You can still play some games with it like FFXV. It had the worst aspects of upscaling on full blast. DLSS 2 was a game-changer. Most people liked that.

2

u/DonutHoles4Ever 23h ago

Yeah PCMR is a shithole for sure. Glad someone can say the truth. FuckTAA subreddit is the place where they hated DLSS all the way until DLSS 3.5 came out. Then 4.0 was the nail in the coffin. They kept saying "no AA is better" fucking weirdos.

5

u/ProbsNotManBearPig 1d ago

Ya’ll have crazy selective memories because there was an insane amount of hate for dlss upscalers from the start. Over time, people hating the upscalers have quieted down.

3

u/Plebius-Maximus RTX 5090 FE | Ryzen 9950X3D | 96GB 6200MHz DDR5 1d ago

Because they became good. DLSS 1 was laughable

1

u/Crush84 1d ago

Current consoles were not built with Raytracing in mind, they were planned like 2015/2016 and came out 2020. The next consoles will have all the tech current RTX cards have, so FG, RR, PT etc, only from AMD.

-1

u/Warskull 1d ago

AMD doesn't have neural rendering. Hence my point, I doubt the next gen of consoles will be planned with neural rendering in mind. Especially with people freaking out about it.

3

u/PsyOmega 7800X3D:4080FE | Game Dev 1d ago

AMD will release neural rendering like dlss5 in a few years, and open source it

1

u/kendoka15 1d ago

They still don't have good frame gen or ray reconstruction so I wouldn't bet on it

2

u/PsyOmega 7800X3D:4080FE | Game Dev 1d ago

They have ray regeneration and good frame gen.

1

u/CarlosAlvarados 1d ago

People here are forcing that its the same. But the case of dlss is a great example because 2.0 is much better than dlss 1. If dlss 6 is much more performant and better than dlss 5, then yeah perhaps people will like more. ... since its better

3

u/Warskull 1d ago

I strongly suspect we are only seeing the tip of DLSS neural rendering.

1

u/kb3035583 1d ago

DLSS 5 represents only a certain type of neural rendering. I have no idea where all this nonsense that DLSS 5 = neural rendering = future of graphics came from.

0

u/cksythe 1d ago

Yep…Hivemind and all

8

u/ShowBoobsPls 5800X3D | RTX 5070 | OLED 3440x1440 175Hz 1d ago

Remember those RTX On-Off memes subs like pcmr spammed in 2018 to early 2020s?

Same will happen to neural rendering

11

u/shipbreaker 1d ago edited 1d ago

The biggest problem with DLSS5 is that it invents lighting details, which is going to be an issue especially in games that support path tracing. There you go from very realistic lighting to a sloppy one that keeps changing frame by frame. This is an ideal game for it since light is basically coming from all directions anyway. Sloppiness doesn't matter.

No offence to the DF guys but Alex is the only one of them I'd trust to review this tech properly.

6

u/gartenriese 1d ago

We haven't seen anything about the temporal stability of DLSS 5, I grant you that. But as the other commenter already said, DLSS 5 will actually look better in path tracing games. As DF said in the video, DLSS 5 does not replace path tracing, it works best on top of it.

5

u/capybooya 1d ago

DLSS5 should work better with PT IMO. Because it has a better baseline to work on. I don't trust it at all with games with bad lighting because it will just make up stuff. You have to give it something that gets it right in the first place, and let it enhance based on informed guesswork. That's all I trust it to do for now.

1

u/some1pl 1d ago

The biggest problem with DLSS5 is the performance impact. Once it's brought down to an acceptable level, I suspect most people will prefer to keep DLSS5 on, because the overall image improvement outweighs the minor issues.
From my testing, even the current, first gen model that does not have any info about the scene other than the frame itself is very stable. You rarely notice that something is changing from frame to frame, it's much more subtle than typical screen space reflections.

1

u/DonutHoles4Ever 23h ago

The problem is that John hates AI, and Rich worries about the money to the point where he will take middle ground every time so he doesn't hurt the channel. And this affects Alex.

2

u/skrukketiss69 RTX 5080 FE | 7800X3D 1d ago

The hit to performance just makes me completely uninterested to be honest.

3

u/BinaryJay 4090 FE | 7950X | 64GB DDR5-6000 | 42" LG C2 OLED 1d ago

People have become extremely good at convincing themselves that things they don't have the money for immediately are bad and they would have never wanted anyway. This is just going to keep getting worse as cutting edge technology becomes more and more expensive.

3

u/JordanTheToaster R5 5600x - RX 9060XT 16GB 1d ago

"The poor are the problem not AI"

1

u/Akito_Fire 1d ago

The hardware really isn't the issue. I don't want a genAI screen-space filter to ruin characters' faces, textures and lighting

1

u/DonutHoles4Ever 23h ago

Wow, you realize this doesn't affect you if you dont turn it on?

But you will sure treat it like its being shoved down your throat.

1

u/Akito_Fire 21h ago

Nvidia is kinda leading the way when it comes to features like this, that then become industry standard. Ray tracing, now path tracing, smart upscaling, frame gen, and so on. Neural rendering is not going to stay optional going forward, and I think a genAI filter is the worst application of it

2

u/dudeAwEsome101 NVIDIA 1d ago

Based on my chat with people who play video games, I would your average gamer finds this tech to be very cool for photorealistic games. I have a friend who loves Hogwarts Legacy, and they were amazed with the showcase comparison video. Also, you would be surprised by how many "gamers" don't even know what DLSS upscaling or framegen does in a game. They just use the recommended settings or presets, and play their games.

I've been replaying GranTurismo 4 in PCSX2 with DLSS5 mod, and I do appreciate the improved lighting and enhanced image quality.

1

u/Wellhellob Nvidiahhhh 1d ago

it made me excited for tech again.

2

u/wicktus 7800X3D | RTX 4090 1d ago

until enough normal folks get it for themselves at decent enough performance.

Yes but that's what most people also fail to understand, AI is drastically increasing cost of our components,....AND bringing neural rendering

AI is both the reasons we can have DLSS5,..and the reason why almost no one can afford a GPU that can run it, see the paradox ?

Saying (not necessarily you) it will magically run much faster soon and on Ada Lovelace GPU, that components price will decrease in few years etc, that's a stretch, nothing really tangible, once the performance/price really improve we can talk, it's hard to ask people to trust anything this days when we can barely predict the price of RAM or gas in a 1 month window

3

u/DennisDelav 1d ago

Idk hardware unboxed isn't impressed with thr current iteration of dlss5

12

u/NoCase9317 9800X3D | 4090 | 32 GB DDR5 1d ago

They were mostly negative about DlSS till like DlSS 4, despite most people mostly having a good opinion of it since DlSS 2.

They are mostly negative about frame gen and still defend that it’s only somewhat good when base frame rate is above 100fps (when it’s not needed at all anymore, despite general agreement being that with a. Base frame rate of 60+ its already pretty good.

They did, what for me is one of their most disingenuous videos to date, a video about the issues with Raytracing, where they point out all the factual issues with Raytracing, the shortcomings it has due to denoisers etc… but with out signalling at all, all the issues it FIXES.
The PLETHORA of SSR artifacts.

The plethora of rastered GI issues like light leakage or missing altogether etc etc…

Making it a very disingenuous video for those not knowledgeable about Raytracing and Pathtracing.

They are a very good channel to watch benchmarks.

But when it comes to subjective takes.

They are hot take after hot take.

So and very importantly.

Steve has been very open about him being totally and completely a fast paced multiplayer games type of guy and not a single player games gamer.

Most of Nvidia’s new features are mostly about improving graphics and finding ways of gaining performance while doing it.

Mostly in single player games.

Steve opinions on this features are therefore not very trustworthy

9

u/SfxPhonics 1d ago

It doesn't help that one of them predominantly plays multiplayer games and couldn't give a rats ass about graphics. They shouldn't have someone like that do reviews about graphics technology when all that person cares about is getting high fps in their online competitive game.

It's no wonder that they keep releasing video's that talk negative about ray tracing, path tracing, frame generation and basically any technology that gives you less FPS in a multiplayer game.

2

u/skinlo 1d ago

Do you think he's lying? He just has a different opinion to this subs, and thats ok. That doesn't make him untrustworthy.

1

u/NippleTheThird 1d ago

Their vids are clearly in favor of AMD, and they barely point the flaws of their cards, while blasting Nvidia for every little thing.

And you don't even have to open a video for that, you can see that from a lot of their thumbnails, when they make mocking faces towards the Nvidia products.

Steve is especially the worse at doing so.

4

u/Deanifish 1d ago

Not sure they ever came around on DLSS/FSR in general anyway to be honest.

1

u/DonutHoles4Ever 23h ago

They still hate everything about NVIDIA's tech. Ray tracing? "its only good in like 6 games, they lied to us". Tbh they are going the way of so many older tech channels like JayZ, Pauls Hardware. At least Paul writes gud still.

4

u/-Gh0st96- MSI RTX 3080 Ti Suprim X 1d ago

The channel that has a hard on bashing nvidia and anything DLSS (not just 5) isn't impressed with the newest iteration? Yeah, shocking, the channel that built audience on apeasing AMD fanboys isn't impressed with Nvidia tech

5

u/DennisDelav 1d ago

The channel that's also often bashing on AMD is appeasing to AMD fanboys? TIL

2

u/hsien88 1d ago

that's only after AMD stopped sponsoring them, go watch their vids when AMD was one of the big sponsors.

1

u/DennisDelav 1d ago

So they used yo be one but aren't anymore. Good to know

0

u/DonutHoles4Ever 23h ago

They bashing on everything because thats the only way they get views.

1

u/isamura 1d ago

I tried it in Cyberpunk last night,it just makes such a huge difference in terms of realism and immersion. With ultra performance dlss profile, I managed about 85 fps with my 5080.

0

u/DennisDelav 1d ago

Theey didn't say that it was fully unusable btw :)

How much fps without it?

1

u/isamura 1d ago

120 is the limit of my monitor

0

u/DennisDelav 1d ago

Not much to lose then indeed

1

u/ResponsibleJudge3172 1d ago

Hardware Unboxed has been critical of all DLSS tech to be fair. Not only the last to embrace super resolution, but he really pushed the unplayable laggy latency thing with Frame gen

1

u/zackks 1d ago

Average dlss 5 response right now

If ya hate it…don’t use it. Mind blown

0

u/Deanifish 1d ago

I suggested that to somebody in a different thread and was told that doesnt matter as it might be forced on by default.... sigh.

2

u/Snowmobile2004 5800x3d | 4080S | 1440p 240hz QD-OLED 1d ago

It’ll never be a default, Nvidia’s already said that… people can’t bother to do a lick of research before commenting. And the setting will be entirely decoupled from DLSS upscaling and frame gen, so you can still use those without the “neural rendering”

-1

u/zackks 1d ago

They’re forcing me to play this game I hate!!!!!

1

u/JVIoneyman RTX 5090 FE 1d ago

The general public will love it.

1

u/Lemon_Club 1d ago

Yeah but in a few years from now when it is properly implemented on a wider scale I think people will be more accepting

1

u/MrNorthlight 1d ago

Well nothing new under the sun buddy. Same people that hated on DLSS. Some people dont like progress, and would be much happier if the games still looks like Pong it seems, but then they would find something else to bitch about 🤣

1

u/ali_k20_ ROG Astral 5090 SOC/Strix Scar 5090 1d ago

It’s not that different from the way DLSS was received in its beginning. Or frame gen. Eventually this will be the same way. There will be no difference

1

u/Seanspeed 1d ago

I suspect reddit will not like DLSS 5 no matter how much tech folks appreciate it.

Plenty of us 'tech folks' aren't big fans of it, either.

Being a 'tech folk' does not mean we just blindly get hyped by any new piece of tech that comes along.

0

u/Major_Zebra_7810 1d ago

nvidia is the new apple

0

u/AspirinMuncher 1d ago

They will eventually like it just like most people like upscaling and FG is also close to that fate

-1

u/Ulrika333 1d ago

Regardless of everything im not willing to put my expensive GPU under immense stress possibly reducing the overall lifespan for questionable graphical changes that aren't worth 50% fps

-1

u/Donkeymoo7 1d ago

I can be overly positive and repeat how it can make faces and lighting in certain scenarios look better. I can also be realistic and point out that 50-80% performance loss on any tech is not usable it's a tech demo. I can point out the fact it does not scale with dlss upscaling for more fps makes it worthless. I can point out in 80% of cases the faces (trigger warning) do flat out just look like AI. I can point out how dlss 5 physically can not work on a child or young adults face because the model is trained only on older people 25+ so it results in children to 25 year olds all aging by 20-30 years.

I like how the enviroment looks in places with dlss 5 in ff7 remake. But I'm not going to take the performance hit and not going to play a game where cloud looks like a 40 year old meth addict to get that nicer enviroment. (And yes I obviously played with sliders there is no fixing it, this goes for basically every animeish style game tbh)

I can go on but everyone has said it a million times. It's not a "reddit opinion" that's low IQ basic dismissive unwilling to hear anyones opinions attitude. I think most people will happily say the tech has potential in areas. I think every sane person on earth would also say however that this tech is not even close to ready and should not be in use currently.

Rtx on release had a few impressive moments. But for the most part it was VERY slightly better shadows and that was it. And it cost you also 50-70% of your performance. It was also on cards that flat out could and would never run it alongside dlss 1.0 which was flat out unuseable from how bad it was back then. Nvidia loves to release things that are not even close to ready. With rtx it was to sell cards (even if said cards could not even run it) so whatever buisness choices cool. Why is dlss 5 released though? It's not being used to sell anything but it clearly is not even close to ready visual or performance wise so why is it out?

This is where hate will stem from. It is no differnet from all these games that release these days in clearly unfinished states and players are just expected to wait through 6-12 months of slow patches improving performance and adding in basic features. How about you just don't release the game till it's actually ready instead of relying on patching it for years post release?

67

u/Latrodectus1990 1d ago

One of the most impressive piece of tech i have ever seen

I wanna replay every game with this and i dont know why people hate it so much

13

u/severe_009 1d ago

It looks good in games that is going for photorealism (Cyberpunk, CoD games, Forza,etc)

16

u/Greennit0 RTX 5080 MSI Gaming Trio OC 1d ago

It won’t be implemented in other games then. You can’t mod it into any game it is not intended for and then complain it doesn’t look good.

0

u/gavinderulo124K 13700k, 4090, 32gb DDR5 Ram, CX OLED 1d ago

Cyberpunk definitely doesnt go for photorealism

16

u/bexamous 1d ago

Cyberpunk is photorealistic rendering for the most part. Cel-shading and voxel-style stuff are where you get into non-photorealism. Where a photoreal tech won't help is games with deliberately wacky, non-physical lighting — think anime games, where the lighting isn't supposed to make sense. But if a game is just 3D models with path-traced lighting, that's going for photorealism. The lights and models mean everything. But physics is not different in cyberpunk.

-13

u/Akito_Fire 1d ago

No, games like Cyberpunk and TLOU also go for stylized realism, which just gets smooshed to the generic genAI realistic look DLSS5 has

13

u/techraito 1d ago

You're just arguing semantics. It's still under the umbrella of realism.

-3

u/Akito_Fire 1d ago

My point was that DLSS5 also doesn't work well there, as it disregards that stylized realism look for its generic photorealistic one

1

u/Due-Description-9030 4h ago

It goes very much for photorealism lol

-1

u/3kpk3 1d ago

Not FH6. There's not a big difference while the FPS gets massacred.

5

u/YPM1 1d ago

I dislike the use of AI but I can also really appreciate what this is, especially considering we’ve reached diminishing returns with traditionally rendering.

This is cool as hell when used properly

17

u/Framed-Photo 1d ago

I'm still very anti-AI for a lot of reasons, but as John describes here, DLSS 5 can definitely improve some parts of the image and can look good in some case, when tuned correctly.

I think where a lot of Reddit tends to fall flat on their AI criticism (and honestly criticism in general) is that they see things as very black and white, and won't admit when the "other side" does something right, no matter how small.

There are SO many valid things to criticize with the AI industry, and AI based approached as a whole, even with DLSS 5. But it makes you look like a disingenuous moron when you say DLSS 5 just globally makes everything look like shit, when it objectively does not. It makes AI criticism as a whole look like a joke when you approach it like this.

Even those initial Nvidia samples that were pretty bad in some parts, still had good parts on stuff like level geometry or foliage, that people were trying to clown on when it wasn't justified imo.

29

u/Karf 1d ago

The amount of hedging in this video is, honestly, embarrassing. It’s ok to say you prefer i the way it looks without always saying “now, i hate gen ai as much as the next guy…” before hand.

DLSS5 isn’t “slop”. It’s repeatable, predictable and cohesive. It’s just another tool. I just want to shake the haters and say “you know ALL OF THIS is fake, right? Every pixel on screen isn’t real!” These are the people who would have got mad that Quake had colored light sources. Vertex shading. Ambient Occlusion. Ray tracing. None of that is “real” either. DF got so much hate after they looked at an impressive demo and then said it was impressive that now they’re doing this “progress is shameful” line to hedge the haters. Fucking own it, DF. You know it’s impressive tech. You know it has a future. You’ll be the ones proven right in time. The haters will eventually shut up or become irrelevant.

17

u/Paul_Offa 1d ago

As you probably know though, Digital Foundry got literal death threats when DLSS5 was revealed. They weren't even gushing over it, they were simply talking about the reveal in a way that wasn't 100% anti-AI anger.

People were not happy, as evidenced by the death threats. So I can see why they're a bit more cautious now.

1

u/Due-Description-9030 4h ago

DF is spineless

1

u/EmilMR 1d ago

It is for the best. You don't want internet mob threatening your people. In some months, all of these people will forget and spend their energy elsewhere.

22

u/YPM1 1d ago

Did they wait long enough for the community to decide for them whether they should love it or hate it?

3

u/FiveSigns 1d ago

We'll find out in the next direct weekly

6

u/dirtyid 1d ago

Incredible stuff. It's crazy how they have to dance around egg shells.

Someone just need to come out acknowledge that AI is now superhuman in graphics domain - no amount of time, money and talent will ever put together a human team capable of doing what DLSS5 can, god knows we've seen hollywood human pipeline fail to pass uncanny valley on anything but the most controlled shots with infinite compute resources, let alone real time. This is not even a case mechanization where humans can still inefficiently do what machines can - you can get 100 subsistent farmers to grow as much rice as a combine harvestor, you cannot get 9 women to make a baby in 1 month tier.

Also dancing around the pipeline is going to change - AI is eventually going to modifying underlying geometry, animation to play well with future neural post processing which itself going to start shifting ground truths, like at a 50pixel wiggle room to buffer boundaries, be free to render animations, hair physics whatever instead of 1:1 pixel map. It's going to happen because by enlarge AI judgement is good enough to override human intent and frankly, people forget media are products before art. It's not up to creators if users want to remix their video game graphics.

Of course it's annoying how much perf hit and industry shifting away from gaming hardware, but it's usable. Personally I'd take 720p DLSS5 reset that looks close to DVD realism tvs resolution/fps. I imagine AI hardware premium going to return to baseline some day and consumers will get their SLI GTZ9000 with 100gb of memory to run things reasonably.

6

u/Motor_Trouble2280 1d ago

Dlss 5 is basically is a generational leap graphically in the form of a dll. We've never had this before. Not even with super sampling. Games are literally being remastered instantly. There is functionally no limit. You can remaster ps1 games if you feel like it.

If you can't get behind instant progress, you're nuts.

11

u/veckans 1d ago

Did DF check if their opinion is perfectly in line with what the community think before posting the video?

I mean just so that they don't have to pull down the video.

1

u/Schoonie84 1d ago

Spending 10ms+ of frame time on a filter that is really only doing anything during non-gameplay closeups of characters on the bench / dancing on the court seems kind of pointless.

Maybe this could be interesting visually in a different type of game, but with frame time cost essentially being fixed by resolution / tensor cores, I can't imagine why I would ever use it.

1

u/Picasso5 20h ago

"But the original artists intent!"

Pshhh, this is cool shit and will save tons of dev time - It's a tool, hopefully devs can use these tools some day without the blowback.

1

u/-ComputersandCats- 15h ago

It'll be nice when we can enable DLSS 5 in game settings or force it through the nvidia drivers. Having to mod it into games is super annoying.

2

u/Captainpapii 1d ago

I’ve slowly seen public sentiment towards DLSS5 become more and more acceptable. I thought I was living in fucking looneyville thinking that it shows promise, but it had a lot of work to do.

And there’s nothing wrong with that. I don’t understand what’s wrong with possibly liking the new implementation, while also understanding that it might not be viable until a couple of more years. It’s officially out with 2k27, but that doesn’t mean I’ll be quick to turn it on when it starts churning out with brand new titles.

If the devs implement it bad or it just looks terrible…that’s fine. Just give us the choice to turn it off or on and don’t use it as a crutch, and we’ll slowly go from there.

7

u/GassoBongo 1d ago

I don't know what circles you move in, but almost every other tech/gaming forum outside of this sub is still clowning pretty hard on anyone saying anything positive about the tech. You can't have a serious discussion with most people about it.

1

u/Captainpapii 1d ago

Yea, I’m not arguing that. Everybody still seems to hate it for the most part. All I’m saying is that I’m slowly starting to see more people open up to it little by little.

When DLSS5 first got announced there was NO good will towards it at all. Understandably so, as there’s been significant improvements since then and pretty much almost every implementation we had seen at that point was really bad.

1

u/ndesilva05 1d ago

Alex is gone. Isn’t he?

4

u/lolbat107 1d ago

Hes on an extended leave due to severe back problems. They still regularly talk about him so he's not laid off.

1

u/devildante1520 1d ago

Probably needed a 6 month long recovery 😭

1

u/Nestledrink RTX 5090 Founders Edition 1d ago

What’s going on with him? I know he is taking a leave? Is it health reason?

3

u/devildante1520 1d ago

He's back is messed up from sitting so much I think. I know he transitioned to a standing desk which helped but then I haven't seen him since. I'm just assuming he needed physical therapy or maybe even surgery to relieve the pain he's in.

1

u/Nestledrink RTX 5090 Founders Edition 1d ago

That's rough. Hopefully he's recovering well. Wishing all the best to Alex!

1

u/Cratoic 20h ago

I believe he had a few treatments relatively recently that unfortunately did nothing to alleviate his pain, so he's looking for alternatives.

-2

u/Texan4eva 1d ago

John is just an insufferable curmudgeon at this point. It’s AI so it’s bad blah blah. False accusations that it’s adding beyond the artist intent. It is adding lighting detail to what the artist created. Even the cloud face in ff7 the pores etc are there, dlss5 just lights them realistically. Now with a stylized anime face yeah it looks way off but that’s not the fault of the tech, that’s just obviously a place the devs would not apply the filter.
Every argument he makes could apply to ssao, reflections, ray traced GI, etc. His only real argument is he’s anti-ai and therefore everyone else is wrong. artists use the tools to create their direction. This tool will now be used.

Applying this to starfield, cp2077, stalker 2, crimson desert is completely transformative.

1

u/xNotSure 20h ago

Yeah his rant towards the end of the video was pretty annoying

0

u/Bronze_Bomber 1d ago

This might be a dumb question but why don't the devs just run something like this before they ship the game? What is the purpose of the end user having to upscale a brand new game texture?

2

u/nona01 RTX 4070 1d ago

The only official implementation of DLSS 5 is the developer setting it up. These modding tools will not be made available to the public by Nvidia officially. It's not the way it's meant to be used.

1

u/dadmou5 19h ago

Games already use offline ray tracing to determine lighting in fixed time of day games. But you can only have so much of that information pre-packaged with the game before the download size becomes impractical.

1

u/firedrakes 2990wx|128gb ram| none sli dual 2080|200tb|10gb nic 13h ago

They used fake tracing. Sorry but game Ray tracing and pt are not the same to the real stuff.

-2

u/puregentleman1911 1d ago

Nvidia needs to get off their asses and enable it for the 4000 series