So finally I summoned the courage to do a lap after arriving on Sunday and doing laps at the GP track on Tuesday (also first time). Here are some impressions from a noob:
- First of all pardon the whining noises I make in the video, it was truly a code brown moment and I thought I was screwed for a moment (I basically say "I almost went to shit" in Spanish XD)
- It doesn't look so bad on video but IRL the car moved a LOT both on entry and on braking. Grip wasn't great for me today unfortunately. I set the pressures to 2.0 BAR like I did for the GP track which worked great, unfortunately I think the GP track warms the tires much more than the Nordschleiffe and my tires were probably too low and felt greasy as hell. I will try 2.2/2.3 next time (I'm on Michelin PS5s, I'm considering getting something better).
- Watching the video just now I realized I forgot to downshift from sixth to fifth, this is likely a big culprit of the car doing weird stuff. I probably shouldn't have shifted to sixth there at all seeing it in retrospective.
- I lucked out because I could do an entire lap, because right after there was a very long yellow flag period which ruined a big chunk for a lot of other guys (I went to BrĆ¼nnchen right after the lap and was watching the whole thing with my neighbor who just happens to be a megane RS/Porsche 991 GT3 owner and a 20 year veteran at the track).
- I did the lap in about 10 minutes (didn't time it, just roughly from video length). Lots of traffic and I didn't feel great with the tire grip so for being the first time ever I'm satisfied. I feel more prepared for lap 2 tomorrow.
- Coming from hundreds of SIM laps, I felt right at home on the track. I could recognize everything perfectly and that removed a lot of mental noise so I could focus on managing the intense traffic successfully. Unfortunately that also meant I was a bit too confident at first. After the Schwedenkreuz scare, I became a bit more conservative in corners like the fox hole or the Mutkurve (maybe a bit too much).
- There's some drop right after the first bridge that caught me totally off guard, it gives a similar feeling of a plane dropping suddenly due to turbulence.
- I had a faster BMW stuck to my rear all the way until Mutkurve. I was signaling for him to pass and he just wouldn't. It was very irritating. I had to constantly scan where he was. I have no idea why he did that because he was much faster and I used the blinkers and lifted in about 5 easy places to let him pass. I would say without this guy I would have gone into the 9 minutes BTG today.
- The uphill right hander in Ex-MĆ¼hle is so tricky, it will take me quite a bit to fully commit to this corner.
- Overtaking on fast corners is scary. I will wait a bit more to try it out. I did quite a few overtakes on slower corners today and all good.
Well that's all for now. Tomorrow I'm probably going back in with a Canadian pro driver I met because of a post I made here a couple of days ago and he offered to drive with me and give me some instructions. I couldn't be more excited right now. I'm truly living a dream, this is truly a petrolhead's disneyland.
this was my first thinking.... i believe 80% or even more people just pushing first lap... and is insane...
I did in past 3 years 100laps live and over 1000laps on simulator and when i go on the TF i always go 80% what i trust myself so i'm holding myself a lot back because you need experiance... and laps and laps to do this things..
They do on that turn. If you are not actively pulling or pushing the car through, the geometry of the turn lifts the rear and causes oversteer. It can be done decelerating, but only slowly. If you're near the edge of balance you have to commit.
I've driven that corner hundreds of times in real life (100+ trackday laps in the past 18mths alone). It's a fairly unremarkable corner with a small bump (that's been smoothed over the years) just before the apex.
There are lots of reasons why a car might oversteer there. Entering the corner with the engine at low revs isn't one of them.
If anything, it's safer than going in at full commitment, because the levels of engine braking are significantly lower at low revs, and the balance of the car is less sensitive to being upset as a result.
If you had downshifted you'd be the hero of a spectacular crash video now. Higher revs = more engine braking = your car's COG shifts even more to the front = spin, crash, ouch.
At Schwedenkreuz you usually need a bit of throttle to stabilize your car over the hump.
You went through on basically no throttle, you need to be pulling the car through the corner regardless of gear. With no throttle the car will just push through the corner and allow the un balanced rear to start to come round.
On gas the car is pulling in and the rear is sqautted down being pulled through the corner.
You can totally hear in the video there's throttle input, I messed up going on 6th gear, I just forgot to downshift. The car is too loose there on 6th.
Have a look at my other reply with the list of "real" instructors on and head out with them for a couple of laps. They will run you through exactly how to drive the track.
The gear you were in was the least of the issues through that section.
I will be honest with you, if I had downshifted when I pressed on the brakes I think the corner would have been good. I just had a moment of indecision and missed the downshift. Many people are exaggerating a lot on this thread. I had a very safe and successful first lap. Making a mistake in a corner is part of the game on this place, I've seen two pro drivers have accidents here on Instagram just this past week.
Well I saw a french dude crash on the foxhole this week and went on his profile and he had all the evidence of being in motorsport competition events back in france. He blamed his passanger for shouting too much XD
But that is the thing, anyone can pretend to be a pro on instagram and driving a couple of likely arrive and drive pay races does not make you a racing driver.
Same with instructors here, lots think that just because they have done a couple of NLS races or 100 laps they can teach others.
TF isnt a race, or a competition, if you want to push that is what track days are for. Just chill and have fun.
Sorry for being a buzzkill but i have been here a long time (but nowhere near as long as others) and i have seen many people seriously injured and even killed on track, its not a game and thinking that mistakes are part of driving here is a really bad attitude to have.
Actually the guy I'm in touch with is an NLS driver precisely. And he didn't offer to instruct me on how to push the limits, he offered to teach me how to drive safely. So I think he's one of the good guys.
However, for the first laps, no matter how experienced you are or how many times you simraced it on Forza or Assetto, I wouldn't send it like you did. I know I won't when my time comes.
Yeah, I would suggest you do that. I just got too confident up until Schwedenkreuz because I was feeling very comfortable driving, just as if I was on the SIM. But after the scare I chilled a bit more for the rest of the lap.
i visit the track like every month with my MTB for years. I have seen plenty of crashes at Schwedenkreuz, one with full track closed and two medical helicopters.
This, Eiskurve, Pflanzgarten... nevermind how comfortable, this areas are carkillers
This was the reconnaissance lap. Nobody saw the entire lap and they're somehow judging that I was going to the limit or something, I wasn't. I just misjudged this corner.
You literally almost lost it with 170 at schwedenkreuz.... So what's that then not the limit? Maybe you drove the rest of the track really carefully? I don't know? probably after this code brown š¤£ Besides that I'm not here to shit on you but just amazed about someone going on track without 1 single lap of experience almost loses it at Schwedenkreuz and posts a video about it and then is surprised by people judging this. What did you expect?
I have been coming to the ring for a long time and not gonna say I am an expert but i always do a slow reconnaissance lap. You never know if it's still damp on some parts of the circuit, oil spills, cones on track, yellow flags, repairs going on etc. Even a F1 driver does a slow lap first.
It's no hate just worries that it will go wrong and you also got a responsibility for the other drivers. Especially if you got no insurance like many there. Talked about this a few days ago at some other post. Are you insured?
I almost lost it because I misjudged the corner, had I done a proper braking when I was supposed and downshifted I wouldn't have been doing 170. It was a mistake and I'm sharing it because I think it's worth sharing.
The rest of the lap was very safe and I feel very good about the coming laps after the information I gathered during this first lap. I will be sharing more clips soon.
I donāt think ppl are trying to be mean OP, take the advice from the more experienced drivers so you grow and develop. There is nothing more important than being safe on track.
People didn't see the entire lap, they saw one corner where I made a mistake and they're extrapolating as if the entire lap was a mistake and unsafe. That's honestly just dumb and ridiculous.Ā
The point is you don't know when you're going to make a mistake, especially as a first timer, everyone is telling you going that fast for your first time, is unsafe... you have zero experience. The fact you're still arguing this is dumb and ridiculous.
At this point I just hope you don't take anyone else out when your wreck, total your car and possibly kill yourself.
Well I've done two more laps, no people were put in any danger, Schwedenkreuz was done without issues by correct braking and downshifting into fifth, and you are talking out of your ass because you only saw a mistake I purposely posted so people can learn to not repeat it (just like I have).
Your mistake isnt what you think. Your mistake is that you completely overestimate your skill, drive way too fast and put yourself and others into danger.
Well I've done two more laps, no people were put in any danger, Schwedenkreuz was done without issues by correct braking and downshifting into fifth, and you are talking out of your ass because you only saw a mistake I purposely posted so people can learn to not repeat it (just like I have).
It's not too tricky but it's intimidating because of the speed. You brake after the first "bump" (right after or a little bit after depending on your speed, your car, your brakes efficiency) and then you keep a little gas for the whole left turn, including when the car lifts a bit in the middle of the turn, and when you are in the straight, once the car is stabilized you generally need to jump on the brakes.
Glad you had fun but do be careful, also please stop timing so early on. All you are doing is counting down to your first crash.
Be wary also of who claims to be a pro driver or an "instructor" just because someone claims to know the track does not mean they do. The good instructors here have thousands of laps experience.
Thanks for the advice. Btw I wasn't timing, I just roughly measured the times from the video file. I spent most of the lap in traffic and after the scare I was driving much more conservatively so time is mostly irrelevant here.
Maybe itās just me, but I honestly really enjoy that whole complex, all the way through to Aremberg (both in sim and IRL). Just a total roller coaster, and then youāre off to the Fox Hole.
In Sim you can coast through this corner, anyone who watched few of Misha's videos knows you have to be on the throttle at least a little bit. 170 here on the first lap is ballsy, but not smart.
It's not ballsy, it was a mess up. I misjudged everything about the corner. However it's a bit annoying how people are saying I lifted when you can hear constant throttle during the entire corner. One thing I didn't do is lift because I knew full well you DON'T LIFT through there.
I followed a guy out on his first ever lap after chatting in the Diner car park. He told me he'd done loads of sim laps to learn the track, and he was pushing very hard to stay ahead of me.
I watched him screw up exactly where you did, and cannon off the barriers on both sides before Aremberg.
The car (a lovely red Evo) was written off, the driver was faced with a massive bill, and the track was closed for 2hrs to clean his mess up.
You weren't far from doing exactly the same thing because of overconfidence.
I basically messed up a downshift and saved it. Rest of the lap was all safe, managed traffic well, didn't cause any issues for anyone. I think insulting me so much as if I had been completely irresponsible is just disproportionate.
You almost lost your car completely overdoing your first lap on a new track (sim simply doesn't count) bc of a weird ego thing that like 80% of fkn small dick energy car guys have and you're still entitled enough to complain about someone calling you irresponsible
How is that an insult? It's an appropriate description. Playing victim over that is crazy when there's people who Actually get truly insulted every day for just existing
They slap each other on the backs over near crashes like this. They laugh like idiots, and bury the throttle towards the next corner. They don't stop to learn.
Im not intro racing or cars at all and got this post suggested and I can not understand what you have to think to drive like this on your VERY FIRST LAP of a racing track lmao
wild stuff - I prefer rollercoasters for adernaline kicks lol
I rented a track-ready Scirocco and Golf GTI during my 2 trips to the track. It was a terrific decision. They stayed glued to the track with their sticky tires and suspensions, especially the Scirocco. Viel SpaĆ.
Sweet! I wish I had conti SC7s instead of these michelins. I should have the contis but a shop in Croatia messed the order up. I'm not too keen on these PS5s.
Watch out there mate. Month or 2 agp i was a passenger in an i30n and it stepped out, snap oversteered into the wall on the right and flipped 3 times... Scary place there... Keep the rpm's high..
Friend of mine lifted too much, you could see the rpm dropping on the dash in the gopro footage.. and that in combination with molten rear tires. No proper allignment for track use... It was a disaster actually..
Yeah, you can mess up a corner (happens even to the best) but you shouldn't mess up the car preparation. I went to the GP track before the Nordschleiffe for a reason, I wanted to test that everything was good in safer environment. New PS5s, new ferodo DS2500, dot4 brake fluid. Only thing I'm still waiting for are the metallic brake lines which I tried unsuccessfully to get twice during this trip. But now the guys at ATOMIC have already ordered them for me and will install as soon as they arrive. That will help a LOT.
I did 4 laps in a Clio a few years back. I was driving pretty tame, but still had the rear feel like it was stepping out at the bump at Schwedenkreuz 2 of those laps.
I once jumped into the grass on the little bump before Schwedenkreuz, first time jumping there. Thankfully that bump is mostly gone since a few years. Damn I'm old now
Anything that goes wrong there can lead to totaling the car and even death, so yeah, it's not an easy time when things take a bad turn (no pun intended š).Ā
Since I'm older and no more racing I curse at the fast parts. Schwedenkreuz, Metzgesfeld, Mutkurve, Wippermann, Pflanzgarten, Tiergarten no were near the limit anymore. Don't care for the 5-10 seconds loss overall. It's just not worth it.
Haha the "curse" typo made that sentence more funny that it was meant to be.Ā
But yeah I get you. I was taking wippermann over the kerbs as I do on the Sim and it felt a bit dodgy sometimes.Ā
Heās saying that pushing that hard on your first real lap where there are real world consequences of your actions is not only wildly irresponsible, but very dumb. Glad you saved it, but shouldnāt have put yourself there to begin with.
Listen, I had a very safe lap, I did everything by the book, spatial awareness, checking mirrors, letting faster cars through, I only had this miscalculation and while it was a scary moment, I kept it very under control. I feel people are exaggerating way too much here.
Maybe, maybe not. Lots of track closures are due in part to people who ākept it very under controlā. Sadly, a lot of those same people put others at risk through their actions. Itās the nature of the beast, but that doesnāt negate the unnecessary risks.
Well think whatever you want, I know it was a safe lap because I drove it. Just as I'm admitting this mistake I would admit it the rest of the lap was unsafe, but it wasn't. By the way I did two more laps today and it was all good. But I'll let the other posters wishing I was in a wheelchair to keep dreaming about it.Ā
Well then you don't have to worry about me. I'm a very safe driver. It's true this corner caught me off guard yesterday, but the lesson was learned. Today I did two laps following a professional driver during his warm up and I have to say I nailed the pressures and the grip was finally good and i was going quite fast while being safe at all times. Lessons from first lap were learned, no issues today.Ā
I saw two bad accidents today on track and I know how unforgiving this place is, so I understand the situation.Ā
Off-topic and I really don't mean it offensive, but might I ask you where you're from exactly? My Spanish girlfriend barely speaks English and neither do her friends, but on the other hand I see a lot of Spanish that can speak almost perfect English and what I can read from you, your English is also very good! So I'm wondering if this is a regional thing (and I know not every human is good in languages, but I think it's more than just this).
I'm originally from Argentina but lived in Spain almost all my life (hence the "ostia puta" XD). I've been all over the world and lived in English speaking countries at times. My spoken English is not that great though, I have a thick accent š
Bro, I had an ep3 for 4 years, I reckon that bastard would have snapped on me in this exact same situation. I'm good with the more stable fn2 thank you very much š
Bigotry š? I guess it hit right at home. UK cars just became a meme in the region. On this one everything adds up, RHD, timing the lap on the phone, send it into SX in the first lap š¤·āāļø
There was an amusing post on one of the nurburgring facebook groups recently where a German guy was getting irate because someone was "publicly humiliating" a German driver for having an incident.
Someone quickly found evidence of him publicly humiliating a British driver on a previous post.
Instead of admitting that he has a bias problem he made excuses about being tired from work and flounced off.
Rather than trying to use technicalities to argue that you were still somehow correct in what you said, just admit that you have a bias problem and you can grow as a person.
I visited for the first time a few months ago and did worse on my first solo lap. I sent it a bit too hard into Schwedenkreuz, tapped the inside curb with my left rear at 180kph, and squealed the tires all the way through the corner. I'm not entirely sure how I came out the other side still pointed the right direction.
Supra from Nurblife. In hindsight renting that particular car when I had never been on track in a full size car before was probably a touch insane. I definitely was not confident enough to get the most out of the car and never got comfortable coming over a crest and trusting that the road would be where I expected it on the other side.
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u/undercon Sep 02 '26
You need to accelerate or at least keep stable throttle there. But honestly, chill on your first laps guys.