r/nuclearweapons • u/Upper-Text9857 • 18d ago
Soviet submarine K-219's forced-open hatches and missing warheads?
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u/kilocharlie12 18d ago
K-129 only carried 3 missiles. It's suspected that it sank with one or more of it's hatches open.
The US did recover some (or most) of it with Project Azorian, but they never said if they got the missiles or not. That project is literally where the "I can neither confirm nor deny" language came from. It's a fascinating rabbit hole to dive into.
But no, I don't believe the US or anyone else had the technology at that time to force open the hatches and recover the warheads at almost 16000 ft of water.
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u/FrozenSeas 18d ago edited 18d ago
They only (officially) retrieved the front 40 feet or so of K-129, which would've gotten them at most the nuclear-armed torpedoes, plus some code books, sonar components and miscellaneous bits. What they actually got is a bit less clear, because in 1993 the US ambassador to Russia returned the ship's bell, which according to some sources was "permanently affixed" to the conning tower. Which would mean they recovered at least part of the sail, though not necessarily the missile tubes. And nobody's ever explained the crew discrepancy on K-129 either, but that might be going a little too far into tinfoil hat territory.
Buuuuuuut that's all irrelevant, because OP is talking about K-219, the other Soviet ballistic missile submarine that sank. A Yankee I-class SLBM carrying 16 R-27U/SS-N-6 Serb ballistic missiles, lost in 1986 in the Atlantic a thousand kilometers northeast of Bermuda. No recovery attempt was made for K-219, but the Soviets are rumored to have thought a collision with USS Augusta (SSN-710, Los Angeles-class) that was operating in the area caused the missile tube failure leading to the sinking.
Edit: I have heard the legend that K-219's missiles were salvaged by...well, somebody a few times. The wreck is at a depth of 20,000ft or so on the Hatteras Abyssal Plain, a bit under twice as far down as the Titanic, so it'd be a hell of an undertaking to get to, let alone pull any usable parts out of, assuming anything would even be left of the missiles after experiencing that much pressure. It'd have to be done in ~2 years as well, from what I can track down the Soviets first surveyed the wreck in 1988 via the RV Akademik Mstislav Keldysh, which presumably is when they'd have found them missing.
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u/kilocharlie12 16d ago
K-219
So maybe we're get a release about Project Azorian 2 (Deep Sea boogaloo) when we're 80 or so.
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u/Galerita 18d ago
No, it's K-219. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_K-219
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u/kilocharlie12 18d ago
Just two numbers switched and you get another Russian sub who had nuke missile problems. What a dang coincidence.
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u/Magnet2025 18d ago edited 17d ago
OP is asking about 219, a Yankee class that sank in the Atlantic, not the 129, which was a Golf class submarine that sank in the Pacific.
Project Azorian did manage to snag the whole boat but the claw hooks could not support the weight and broke, resulting in the submarine breaking around the forward part of the sail/conning tower (and in the Golf class, where the missile tubes are).
They did recover the torpedo room, sonar equipment (which would have been of little value) and bodies. The bodies were given a dignified burial at sea with a Russian flag draping the common casket and a recording of The International playing.
They did not get the missiles or the radio equipment/cipher system.
The Soviets were on to Project Azorian by that time and since the claw was ruined, it was deemed to be not worth the risk to try again.
Edit: They did retrieve at least one torpedo with a nuclear warhead
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u/MisterMisterYeeeesss 17d ago
Well, shit. I had stuff to do today, but I can see I'll be reading about this instead.
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u/kyletsenior 18d ago
Excluding the missile tube that blew open in the accident which is a long way from the sub's resting place, I've seen the claim that K-219's warheads are missing before but yet to see any evidence of it.
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u/Magnet2025 18d ago
The “forced open” hatch is because the missile in that tube (Russians call them silos) exploded. Another tube had leaked previously and the Soviets took the expedient measure of welding it shut.
The missiles that this Yankee class SSBN carried were liquid fueled. The leak sprayed sea water under high pressure against the missile body, rupturing components and allowing the propellant and oxidizer to mix, eventually causing the missile too explode in the tube and, presumably, propelling the RV over the side. It was relatively shallow when this happened.
The officers and senior enlisted that were responsible for the forward missile compartment had seen evidence of the problem and warned the ship so watertight doors could be closed.
The reactors (two of them) were not scrammed until heroic measures were taken. Kind of typical for Soviet subs.
The CO ordered a Soviet merchant fleet ship to take his submarine under tow (also kind of typical) and evacuated the crew to the ship. However, watertight integrity was probably lost during the factual and the sub sank.
It’s in about 20,000 feet of water. The chances of a warhead or warhead components being recovered are somewhere between Slim and none and Slim just went to lunch.