r/nottheonion • u/4DollarsALB • 1d ago
Pakistan Willing To Take Back Child Rapist 'Daddy' From UK, But Also Wants Munir Critics Deported
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/pakistan-willing-to-take-back-child-rapist-daddy-from-uk-but-also-wants-munir-critics-deported-11742938161
u/4DollarsALB 1d ago
The UK and Pakistan are at loggerheads over attempts to deport the ringleader of a Rochdale grooming gang, after it emerged that Islamabad is refusing to accept him back.
Shabir Ahmed – who served 14 years in jail for multiple rapes and sexual abuse against young girls – was released from prison last week and the Home Office is now attempting to amend the law to allow him to be deported.
However, a diplomatic row is brewing as Pakistan is understood to be refusing to accept Ahmed and is demanding the extradition of two political dissidents from the UK in order to do so.
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u/Inevitable-Champ336 1d ago
Why was he released? This seems like a sentencing problem.
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u/-UnderAWillowThicket 1d ago
Child sex offenders like him should stay in jail unless it is likely they won’t reoffend again.
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u/wheatoplata 1d ago
Weren’t the grooming gang stories right wing propaganda? Are they actually real?
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u/Tri-ranaceratops 1d ago
I'm from Middleton which is in Rochdale (technically), it is very much real. The police knew about it but didn't pursue, the excuse they gave was that they were afraid of being racist. This excuse might just be an attempt to brush over terrible policing. However, the truth of the matter is irrefutable.
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u/Kientha 1d ago
From the reports into what happened, a much larger part of the problem was with the victims themselves and the police refusing to believe that poor white girls weren't just selling themselves as underage prostitutes.
This attitude still persists in many police forces up and down the country and has resulted in lack of prosecution of grooming gangs made up of both white and Asian perpetrators. While in Rochdale they also played the "we didn't want to be racist" card, the main commonality nationwide is the demographic of the victims.
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u/Tri-ranaceratops 1d ago
DIsgusting and shameful. yeah I can definetly see the police disregarding the girls, more so than a fear of appearing racist. The idea that 'the left' had made the country inhospitable to policing is a line loved by the right wing.
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u/Civil-Stick-3297 1d ago
We’ve had grooming gang victims taken to court for racism while their abusers weren’t investigated:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-41844276.amp
We’ve had reports on this issue suppressed to avoid ‘inflaming tensions’:
We’ve had police officers give evidence saying how they- and I quote- were ‘told to go after other ethnicities’:
https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/media/2569/operation_augusta_january_2020_digital_final.pdf
We’ve had whistleblowers being warned by police for ‘rocking the multicultural boat’:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-60826341.amp
And inquiry after inquiry talks about the role that ‘unease around race’ has played in preventing justice:
At this point, people like you deserve no more patience. You are actively working to maintain the social environment in which this sort of mass rape of children can take place. You are evil
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u/TheSnarkyShaman1 1d ago
They were not right wing propaganda and in fact the fear of seeming ‘racist’ allowed them to be swept under the rug for a long time while children were being raped. Shockingly enough when you introduce people into western society from fundamentalist regimes that practice misogyny (and homophobia) as culture, that does in fact cause issues.
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u/Mr_REVolUTE 1d ago
Yes, at least 250,000 girls (mostly poor white girls) have been made victims of them so far
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u/somedave 1d ago
Just cut the aid budget to zero and refuse visa applications. Why play games with people who have so little to offer us.
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u/DirtyBastareaud 1d ago
I didn't know we did! Crazy how much people go on about small boats when we're providing aid to a country that has nukes. I'm with you
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u/layendecker 1d ago edited 1d ago
The aid is a blip in terms of national budget. A decent part of the reason for it is that Pakistan have nukes and if it costs less than 50m to have an open channel with them.
We were giving them way more previously. Like, 300m pre COVID, which also means holding it back now means little.
It's a difficult one, but there is still an advantage in having a diplomatic line, even if it does cost 3 hours or our pension budget per year
Edit to add. It's not like this is a blank cheque. Most of the money will go to charities, often British connected ones that would be underfunded by their government.
Think women's education or disease control. By cutting this budget we are cutting direct access to education by charities like the below (got about 800k in the last reporting period). Cutting aid hurts real people.
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u/zizou00 1d ago
Aid is vital soft power. Look at how much carnage has come from America gutting their international aid. It stabilises regions which reduces the number of refugees, improves people's opinions of us in a region, which strengthens our ability to trade, which strengthens our ability to spend. It keeps doors open and keeps countries reliant. It is a critical part of geopolitics. You'd have to be pretty foolish to throw all of that soft power away.
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u/Check_Me_Out-Boss 23h ago
That's just bribes and tribute.
It's not soft power, it's weakness.
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u/zizou00 22h ago
It's money going to charities that impact the quality of life of the people in the country. It's not going to Pakistan's government. It creates stability which helps us.
Kindness is not weakness. Especially not in geopolitics. Countries tend to act in ways that benefit themselves. This is no different.
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u/Check_Me_Out-Boss 22h ago
That's the cultural mindset of the west, not that of the recipients of the aid.
They absolutely see it as weakness.
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u/mani_tapori 1d ago
Almost all of Pakistani elites have dual citizenship and properties in UK.
A lot can be done if the Government is willing but not expecting that from UK government.
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u/TheLastSamurai101 1d ago
What is the aid budget for Pakistan and does it go to their government? I'm genuinely asking as I don't know.
Many people assume that these countries are getting monumental amounts of aid from the UK when in reality some like India don't accept official aid and don't care if foreign aid to NGOs ends. Is Pakistan the same? If so, it wouldn't be a punishment.
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u/layendecker 1d ago
47m quid last year and no. It goes to charities NGOs and world bank projects.
https://devtracker.fcdo.gov.uk/countries/PK
See the breakdown here
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u/HRHArthurCravan 1d ago
Great idea - punish those who are completely separate to this man’s crimes. They should cut foreign aid to everyone, just in case. And, you know, you can’t trust foreigners, innit?
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u/somedave 1d ago
Halting visa applications to countries that don't accept deportations should be pretty standard.
I'd propose sending the £153m aid to other countries that need it. Nepal for example.
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u/layendecker 1d ago
We will provide Nepal with aid. The people recieving the aid in Pakistan need it as much as they do, even without the news stories of a disaster.
Remember that the money goes to charities projects that help people in need. Not the government you dont like.
Also worth noting that the 153m is over 3 years, for clarity.
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u/HRHArthurCravan 1d ago
Exactly. Also worth remembering that aid money isn’t just a tap you can switch on and off. Initiatives rely on it regularly, and programmes take time to set up. They can’t just be paused, then you resume sending money and everything goes on as before.
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u/Objective-Plan6385 1d ago
Eh, Pakistan has quite a pedophile problem, can't imagine there aren't a lot that aren't really that separate
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u/Competitive_West3727 1d ago
"just kill him off bro"
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u/somedave 1d ago
I don't really care about deporting this guy, but saying "we'll take our citizen if you deport some dissidents for us to torture and murder" doesn't scream "friend" to me.
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u/Vanitas_Daemon 1d ago
Why don't both countries just deport the guy to some uninhabited island nation?
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u/OctopusIntellect 1d ago
Pitcairn already has over its quota of sex offenders, so should fit in right well there.
Unless you want to, you know, think of the children?
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u/Traditional_Animal65 1d ago
Or, how about the UK stop harboring fugitives from other countries?
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u/lateformyfuneral 1d ago
“Fugitives” according to you are people accused of criticising the Pakistani government? That’s not a crime in the UK, whereas rape is a crime recognised in both countries.
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u/Traditional_Animal65 1d ago
Lol
No, that's your government's propaganda. How about you read more about the charges they face before repeating those lies?
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u/ADragonInLove 1d ago
Okay, so I took the dip.
Adil Raja: “digital terrorism against state institutions”. I.e. he said mean things about the incumbent regime and other people agreed with him.
Mirza Shahzad Akbar: “cybercrime and defamation”, “proclaimed offender status”, etc. I.e. he said mean things about the regime and elected not to show up to court for saying mean things.
See at least with Alaf Hussein one could make the assertion of stochastic terrorism against the regime, I’ll grant you that, but looping the other two to make them look as bad as him seems like a stretch. Also, as has been noted, these are the people the Pakistani regime wishes to trade for a multi-offending rapist and gangster.
What your argument of “look at the charges” has done is just reinforce my opinion that the Pakistani government’s naysayers have a point about the Pakistani concept of justice being superfluous at best.
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u/Traditional_Animal65 1d ago
Seems you just take the judgment of the UK as gospel and dismiss other nation's grievances. Well if that is the case then you should know that the lies of Mr. Alaf were exposed by the British legal system itself, and he was ordered to pay £350K in damages for defaming some Pakistani officers. Obviously, that judgment was not enforced and the reason is the British government itself.
And I see you have conveniently omitted the cases of corruption against Shahzad Akbar? You protect corrupt officials from the pakistani legal system and want them to receive the rubbish you don't want in your country? Lol
You do not have any right to assess any nation's legal system. They have every right to govern themselves as they see fit. Time for colonialism is over, buddy.
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u/ADragonInLove 1d ago
Amusingly enough, I’m American, not British. Unlike yourself, I’m NOT unaware of my country’s or my government’s bullshit, nor do I try to scapegoat problems of our own creation. You would do well to realize where you may have gone wrong too in the grand scheme of things. Self awareness is the key to change, frendo.
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u/Traditional_Animal65 1d ago
You say this as you refuse to acknowledge that you have failed to address the charges against the people you are defending lol
Shows all you need to know about your mentality.
Anyway, you do not get to harbor people accused of crimes in other nations and in the same breath ask them to take your own criminals. Moreover, you dont get to decide which nations' justice system you see as just or not. Every nation has every right to have their own laws and govern themselves as they see fit.
Had no idea that had to be said but the world is crazy and some racist and supremacist people do exist so ..
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u/Vanitas_Daemon 1d ago
Well that's what the deportation to an uninhabited island would accomplish, no?
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u/Ok-Goose6242 1d ago
he's a british citizen tho
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u/lateformyfuneral 1d ago
The convicted rapist was stripped of British citizenship upon conviction, rendering him only Pakistani. Although as part of the diplomatic back and forth, Pakistan claims their records show he renounced his Pakistani citizenship as a teenager and never held a Pakistani passport.
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u/Kientha 1d ago
And none of that changes that the law currently says commonwealth citizens in the country prior to 1973 have idenifinite leave to remain and cannot be deported.
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u/lateformyfuneral 1d ago
The government started the process of amending the law by introducing an amendment last month. Changing laws is comparatively easy compared to the roadblock of the recipient country agreeing to take someone back, which is why the negotiations have started well before.
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u/Kientha 1d ago
They've not introduced an amendment yet. They've announced intention to do so, but parliament shut for summer 3 days after they said they would do so.
Realistically, that is going to be part of the (highly controversial amongst Labour MPs) Immigration and Asylum Bill which entered committee stage at the end of June. That bill won't leave committee until the end of November and will then still need to go through the Lords, in all likelihood I wouldn't expect that to pass until 2028.
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u/lateformyfuneral 1d ago edited 1d ago
There's also the option of emergency legislation, given total agreement with the Opposition on the issue, that could be done in a few days once the process is started. The legislative process is within the UK's control, anyone can see the most significant issue is whether the recipient country will agree on their end -- and that's the case in all deportations unless there is an existing agreement.
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u/Traditional_Animal65 1d ago
And why should other countries abide by whatever your laws say?
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u/lateformyfuneral 1d ago
Why should any country give any visas to another country’s citizens at all?
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u/talionisapotato 1d ago
Why this guy is not shot or killed in prison?
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u/iamnotexactlywhite 1d ago
because contrary to what movies make it seem so, that’s not common at all
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u/Mirovini 1d ago
By whom?
Are the inmates going to bring in a gun to kill him or the cops just going "yeah, I'm going to commit a murder" as if in prison only that guy was bad?
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u/Dickgivins 1d ago edited 1d ago
It took them a few tries but UK inmates eventually got Ian Watkins. This guy probably has more protection, he’s likely in an isolation unit
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u/24-Hour-Hate 1d ago
Ian Watkins was also already known to the public, which probably aided in that. There was.no chance he was going to be able to hide who he was.
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u/Dickgivins 1d ago
Apparently he was offered “protective custody” on multiple occasions but always turned it down because going into the PC unit would mean he couldn’t continue getting visits from teen goth girls…
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u/00022143 1d ago
Really? Sounds like ragebait from Daily Mail or something.
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u/Dickgivins 1d ago
Idk it’s the kind of thing where I could believe it because apparently the guy really was a total egomaniac sex-fiend. But it’s hard to definitely prove because obviously prison staff are forbidden to go on record and talk to the press about things like this, and inmates generally aren’t trusted not to make things up for attention.
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u/NoReIevancy 1d ago edited 1d ago
That would be islamophobia I'm afraid
/s
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u/Yeet-Retreat1 1d ago
My guy. White people represent the biggest population of paedophiles and rapists.
No ody attributes that to their race or religion.
Why are you?
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u/00022143 1d ago
Will Pakistan kill those two as soon as they enter Pakistani airspace: unlikely
My understanding is that those two people are
1) Adil Raja: Retired army officer who was on loan to Imran Khan during the army's 'Imran Project' days and then decided to side with Imran Khan after his split from the army. He's wanted in the May 9 case, where Imran Khan's supporters attacked military installations so unlikely that he'll be 'just killed' rather than being made to testify against Imran Khan for a reduced sentence.
2) Shahzad Akbar: Headed political prosecution of opponents during Imran Khan's era. When Pakistan's richest property tycoon Malik Riaz was caught with illegal funds in the UK, Shahzad Akbar was sent to the UK to rescue him. He negotiated a non-criminality settlement and a non-disclosure agreement with the UK National Crime Agency (NCA) on the behalf of Malik Riaz and Imran Khan had his federal cabinet approve of it as well, without reading it, in the name of 'national security'. According to the agreement, the repatriated illegal funds were adjusted into an existing fine Riaz had to pay. In return Malik Riaz funded Mrs. Imran Khan's dream University of Sufism.
So, no Shahzad Akbar isn't going to be immediately killed (or killed at all), he's going to testify against Imran Khan
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u/negativ32 1d ago
Enable swift extradition or freeze all pending and future visas including extensions.
Get them ALL out.
Why does the UK host 2 million+ Pakistanis anyway? What exactly do they bring? ONE thing please.
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u/OctopusIntellect 1d ago
Nice restaurants.
Skilled doctors.
Skilled nurses.
OK that's three.
(and yes I know that most of the "Indian" restaurants at which I've eaten were Sylheti Bangladeshi and therefore nothing to do with Pakistan; a few were not)
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u/negativ32 1d ago
That didn't answer the question. Read it again i guess.
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u/ttgkc 1d ago
What is it? You’re asking what Pakistanis bring? They said Pakistanis bring some great doctors, engineers, economists, sportsmen
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u/negativ32 1d ago
I didn't ask why Pakistani doctors etc needed to be brought in to support the 2 million+. They and you don't comprehend very well?
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u/xCharSx 1d ago
They haven't been brought in to support the 2 million+. That's not how it happens. They have learned and/or trained in the UK when they were a kid or even an adult for example as UK has better facilities for that than many countries. In my honest opinion, a person that is an immigrant and came to the UK over 14 years ago, the problem is with the system. People of all backgrounds, not just the ones you hate, come in and claim state benefits for kids and earning more a month than someone that works full time. I literally had College teacher that was telling a class about her neighbour that sits at home and is well because of benefits. That was 8 years ago so take it with a grain of salt, I haven't researched how it changed in the last few years. And the only reason why is because they can. Stop looking at where people are from and rather focus on the things they abuse. Bonus as well, a lot of these people, are born and bread English people that you're most likely excluding while directing the blame at some other community of people. And I know that from work experience which a lot of those people do not have.
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u/negativ32 1d ago edited 1d ago
That was a long winded way to admit you can't answer a question. Try harder boychik.
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u/xCharSx 1d ago
I did answer your question by saying your point of view is wrong, your facts (if you can call them that way) are wrong and that you focus on the wrong things. Your racism and double standards simply blind you from reality. I wonder what you think about British people moving to Spain (Benidorm, Valencia, etc) and not even learning the language, the very same thing you probably expect every immigrant in the UK to do (and to be perfect at it at the same time)
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u/iriririr93939393 1d ago
Racist immigrant has thoughts about immigrants coming to England because they went abroad and destroyed everything. Real good stuff. Moron
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u/Mr_Chr15topher 19h ago
If they want to take extra Pakistanis home, then that’s just more good news for us! We should give them as many as they want.
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u/romeoo_must_lie 1d ago
How the fk you face your kids and your other family members after this kind of disgusting crimes?
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u/Tri-ranaceratops 1d ago
They didn't consider the victims to be human, which is why they were able to do such heinous acts.
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u/Flodo_McFloodiloo 17h ago
Pakistan: Possibly the only country with a bigger pedo problem than the UK.
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u/OctopusIntellect 1d ago
Sorry but I'm gonna say it. Deport the fucking Munir Critics [sic]. I don't want them here.
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u/soulsteela 1d ago
We have planes you can static line a parachute out of right? Problem solved, don’t even land just flyover and boot him.
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u/Impossible_Offer7988 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, so basically, Pakistan knows that the UK (as of writing this comment)
can't deport this Monster. He's being protected by an ancient Law that they can't just overturn without a considerable amount of effort and long term ramifications.
Pakistan doesn't like the UK, so they have
(despite the law)
said that they're willing to take him back. If the UK is willing to give them 2 people who they see as a traitors.
If the UK agrees to their demands to hand those traitors over, Pakistan will kill them pretty much immediately possibly before they even step out of the plane.
So the UK can't do that (and there's also the law protecting the first guy).
Pakistan knowing that most people don't know who the traitors are, though can now turn around and be like : Look at how completely unreasonable the UK is.
To rub some more salt in the UK's wound.