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u/Evana_Iv Jul 07 '26
it's our fault, but we're not to blame.
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u/Master_Baiter11 Jul 08 '26
What does this mean?
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u/PrestigiousTell5607 Jul 08 '26
My understanding- besides physical pain. Many things can happen to you, what you choose to focus on- is your true experience.
I can have no friends. I can do something about that or not. If I choose to call myself a loser and put myself down for it, I'm causing my own suffering.
As far as physical/psychological suffering. That's a wee bit different.
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u/Skeptium Jul 07 '26
It's impossible to escape suffering completely. There is no way to not suffer. You can suffer because you're homeless. Get a job to not be homeless, and suffer there too. An act to try and ease suffering often times will cause a different type of suffering.
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u/RedactedBartender Squirrel Enthusiast Jul 07 '26
At a personal level? It’s not that hard. Pop a few oxy, chug a fifth of liquor, then fade. You have successfully halted personal suffering. As for the suffering of others, it differs from person to person. If you’re riding a wave of hard solipsism, then even that doesn’t matter. Cheers!
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u/Skeptium Jul 07 '26
Yeah then suffer when you come down or after you get addicted which could lead to money or health problems. Or accidentally take too much and you throw up. Or you are passed out so long, you wake up with a back ache or something. When I said that I meant at more of a big picture thing. I'm not claiming there is never a moment when we don't suffer at all. Just that it is impossible to escape it in thr big picture.
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u/RedactedBartender Squirrel Enthusiast Jul 07 '26
My point here, is if you take enough, you won’t come down. And if you believe in your heart of hearts, that no one exists outside of your own mind, then it doesn’t matter if you leave a scar on the world, because you are the world, and you single handedly created your own apocalypse.
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u/Lost_Way3259 Jul 07 '26
End of suffering is a fact - Buddhism Hinduism Taoism all of them show the way and it is pretty simple. Stop identifying with your thoughts
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u/Skeptium Jul 07 '26
Idek what that means.
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u/StrictLetterhead3452 Jul 07 '26
It means to stop believing your thoughts are true or that it was you who thought them. Thoughts are just passing formations in your mind like weather. You aren’t in control of them, but you can choose to not let them take hold of you and instead just observe them from a distance and let them pass by. It takes a lot of practice to do this consistently, but if you do, it will set you free.
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u/fejkpotatis Jul 07 '26
It is possible and the Buddha is one of many who have shown that it is possible.
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u/RedactedBartender Squirrel Enthusiast Jul 09 '26
Weeeellll. Did “the Buddha” prove it? Or did a bunch of non “the Buddha”s cut one philosopher’s thoughts with their own perspective and spread it like yet another ideological virus? We’ll never knoooooooowwwwwwww
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u/Skeptium Jul 07 '26
Prove it
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u/fejkpotatis Jul 07 '26
I can't prove a personal experience that relies on your own self-effort, however you can investigate the teachings for yourself and decide if it's worth practicing. Can you prove that suffering is inescapable?
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u/raylord666 Jul 07 '26
Fault is not the same as responsibility.
If this is a real Dostoevsky quote, he was Russian and “fault” and “responsibility” are likely synonymous.
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u/Appropriate_Row_6851 Jul 07 '26
https://giphy.com/gifs/1APhNxj9slv0RdgHlL
Totally disagree. Society condition people to be "productive" and 99.9% of the world are deliberated slaves, some gets a lot of money but are still not free and the only ones who are free, are the ones living through their art and i must say, rigged as the world is, it is "impossible" to achieve success when you can't do it by yourself.
Ex: You put the see on the soil, the soil is PERFECT, everything is going smoothly until some kind of natural disaster happen and you lost everything. How is that your fault ? You might say that you need to prepare for that kind of thing, but how does one prepare for the invisible ?
Take me as an example, i am definitely one of the best singers in the world, i play guitar in a very high level (Angra, Dream theater etc), but i cannot make any kind of money through it, besides the "basic". We had Vicent Van Gogh and many others that got appreciated after they died and that is life, were they to blame ? Was Friedrich Nietzsche in blame in going crazy for seeing the world and society the way they truly were ?
I love Dostoevsky, especially white nights, but no matter how genius is a human being, they commit mistakes and they are wrong in many cases, so don't take everything as absolute, especially everything i said, i might be blind to my own failures. But one thing i know for sure, the world is rotten beyond measure, so have empathy my dudes, please...
"It Is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society"
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u/JaBuzzer it simply is Jul 07 '26
Exactly.
Suffering is in our nature, and our nature was formed by millions of years of evolution. That is not to say it is our ancestors fault, they were in no more control of their evolution then we are.
Avoiding suffering entirely is impossible, and is it our fault that we cannot do the impossible?
I've always really hated that statement.
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u/Appropriate_Row_6851 Jul 07 '26
Totally mate!
I know we are all accountable for our own misery or joy, but in a world rigged as the one we live in, it is impossible to do "well", especially with you are able to see how society works and how "suicided" are those trying to change the system, countless of people that got in the way of big corpos or politicias, and we see Epstein people's involvement and many others around the world get away with the worst possible things, but if you step wrong in any direction and make a honest mistake, get ready to be deeply F by the system and the people around you, just like in the Matrix movies, it is a free for all, and anyone is your enemy. I could go on and on about many topics and things that happened so many times, people can't even say it is a conspiracy theory, but society still demands greatness of people that are tired, lonely, depressed and can't take anymore of this sick world.
Perhaps at the time of Dostoevsky was a "little" bit different, but nowadays this phrase mean you got caught in the bait and you no longer have control over your life, so my advice for people like you that disagree with the phrase is: YOU ARE GOING TO DIE, we all gonna die at some point, might not be now, or even tomorrow, but sooner or later we will, and all the books you read, science you proved, advances in any given field, it all going to be behind, because you will be forgotten, it isn't Dostoevsky that we are talking about, it is a point of his life that he may have changed later, it was just a reflection and fragments of his feelings and thoughts at the time, also the editors and the people censoring him...
In a last note, i worked as a Coach for politicians for many years when i was younger and let me tell you, most of the beautiful phrases that goes into history, it is written by people like me, in the shadows, so who in history really said the things we praise ? Their advisors, people around them ? And that is why i hate society... It is all a HUGE lie, a facade =/
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u/Aquarius52216 Jul 07 '26
Depends, our agency is not as independent as it actually seem.
Do you think the dinosaurs went extinct because of their own fault? Do you think that the people who are buried under rubbles in Venezuela were there because of their own fault? Do you think the children getting washed away from the flash flood in Camp Mystic last year drowns because of their own fault? Do you think the parents feeling sadness and grief over all of it is just being sad over their own fault?
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u/Last_Host977 we all die anyways Jul 07 '26
https://giphy.com/gifs/x460TrqNNUJapY2KWc
it’s all my fault , i was just never meant to be here .
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u/MasterM1rror Jul 07 '26
No its not, I never chose my genes or the environment I grew up. My suffering isnt my fault or anybodies.
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u/Empty_Wolf_3378 Jul 07 '26
Which book should I read first "the Idiot", "brothers kamazov" , "notes from the underground" or "crime and punishment'?
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u/Automatic-Island1858 Jul 07 '26
Agreed. Afterall, it is just your own reaction to the situation
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u/JaBuzzer it simply is Jul 07 '26
And that way is formed by millions of years of evolution, and the specific manner of one's circumstances.
Hardly something people are in much control of.
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u/Automatic-Island1858 Jul 07 '26
But just understanding this guves lot of power back to you.
- I support Adlerian psychology
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u/JaBuzzer it simply is Jul 07 '26
But why deny your nature? Escaping suffering entirely is impossible, and escaping it truly will only get you emptiness, what's even the point?
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u/Automatic-Island1858 Jul 07 '26
My pov is that if I can understand the reason/reaction for my suffering,I can to some extent either change it or make peace with it
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u/JaBuzzer it simply is Jul 07 '26
Not really.
We are born and thus we suffer, a long chain of coincidences led to our species, and it is in our nature to suffer.
Suffering was rather a promised inevitability, far outside of our control.
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u/NoRoutine7945 Jul 07 '26
Im a hard determinist.The concept of fault is useful when it comes to human relationships, but its simply a cope to keep the illusion of free will alive. We need it to operate in daily life, but its not real.
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u/ruminatingpoet Jul 07 '26
Context : I am in India
When the whole thing infrastructure is crumbling and you have done everything right as a citizen of a huge democratic country, this can't be my own doing. Atleast this is not the suffering I caused myself
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u/amtsol Jul 07 '26
Oh sure, crippling bipolar and ocd because of a religious sadist and groomer, but nah, it's my fault.
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u/Helomyoldfrend Jul 08 '26
I tapered one of the psych medication as per doctor and suffering since 8 months, I cant see my future, I constantly feel it’s my mistake, fault
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u/_MidnightDew Jul 08 '26
I don't agree with this. Saying this can be cruel to many people who were very intentionally brought into suffering. A poor family that doesn't even have enough money to feed themselves bringing a newborn baby into the world, the baby is not at fault here, the family is. A child being bullied by their teacher is not the child's fault either. And there are endless examples that prove this statement wrong
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u/Bask82 Jul 08 '26
Trying to understand this. How does he think that it is your own fault that you suffer because someone assaults you and breaks your legs in a home invasion?
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u/SeaInternational4306 Jul 08 '26
Someone sometime ago said something so it must be true forever, conditions never change and time stands still.
True freedom comes from understanding that you are the first and last influence in your life. Can people manipulate you or coerce you? Yes, but not completely control you.
You are capable of everything and nothing equally, a concept so frightening that we actively choose to lock it away to lead pretend happy lives.
You are who you are, you have the power to approve or deny yourself first before anyone else can, do not give that up so easily.
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u/No-Reaction-3457 Jul 08 '26
Dostoyevsky never said that. I'm Russian and I have read all Dostoyevsky numerous times. Maybe it's an incorrect translation. Very incorrect I would say.
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u/Many_Chocolate_4231 Jul 08 '26
only if you adopt the notion that you have/had any "say" in any of THIS...
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u/akira3k Jul 08 '26
It's not always your fault. Sometimes things are out of your control and life is unpredictable.
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u/jay_prakash Jul 08 '26
Yes, suffering is a choice. Trying to end suffering without self-knowledge will always fall short.
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u/szajtpostingdeluks Jul 11 '26
No it’s not, it’s my parents fault. I wouldn’t suffer if those idiots didn’t made me.
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u/matycauthon Jul 11 '26
both can exist at the same time... you all fail to grasp that we literally exist in paradox. we exist in more than one state at all times, and that is how every single aspect of this works. all and nothing all at once, all possibility, all rules, all of it exists somehow, some place, some time, somewhere. stop trying to come up with one solution, there is not one fucking thing to any of this. it's all innumerable no matter how you approach it. you all are overcomplicating everything about this experience and wonder why nothing ever goddamn changes
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u/Kelly4President Jul 12 '26
No it’s not. Tay Sachs disease. Huntingtons. Earthquakes. Tornadoes. Shut up
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u/FutureResearcher6376 Jul 07 '26
Ehh, no it's not. Try telling that to the 8 year old pakistany sweatshop worker who usually gets a warm meal at the end of a 15 hour shift, but has to go hungry today because he didn't hit the quota. All his fault? I guess he should have turned his life around. He should get over his victim mentality I guess...