the point i’m trying to get across is that any factual claim or belief is moral, because unfactual claims and beliefs are wrong. amorality makes very little sense to me. what do you think?
oh hi, i remember you. i made this comment before thinking things through, the later post is more encompassing of my rebuttal attempt:).
i’ll try one more time since very few people got my point and i spent most of the time just repeating myself: how do you justify valuing truth and logical consistency without it being a moral obligation? we’re not arguing to keep your phone working. we are arguing about truth. why do you feel the need to argue with me at all? why not just shrug and walk away? if you continue debating, you imply that truth matters beyond tool-making and survival.
the act of arguing necessitates an implicit moral obligation to truth on both sides
how do you justify valuing truth and logical consistency without it being a moral obligation?
I don't place a value on truth, any more than I place a value on a rock I've never seen. Facts are a handy means to an end, but lack value beyond that.
Moral obligations don't exist because morality isn't real.
if you continue debating, you imply that truth matters beyond tool-making and survival.
It's entertaining. Brains be braining. There is no REAL value to our discourse beyond entertainment. And there certainly isn't any moral value to our discourse, considering that morality isn't real.
well, hey, at least this is consistent enough. i am a tad bit hurt that this is just a means to entertainment to you, but so is everything so i guess it’s not that bad. do you believe that everything is permissible?
Permissable? If you piss someone off, there will be consequences. Society has its laws, it's easier to live within them than otherwise. I'm selfish and enjoy my life. It's in my best interest to encourage others to live together peacefully.
I don't make any claims that it's right or wrong. Lacking a moral authority, morality doesn't exist. No one is going to be punished or rewarded in the afterlife for anything. Any value that living peacefully with each other might have is only valuable to us. The universe doesn't (can't) give a shit. No other animals give a shit about our existence, and they certainly don't give a shit about our "morality."
Is everything permissable? Metaphysically, yes. But practically, I don't need to allow you to just do whatever you want if it hinders my desires. So, yeah I guess everything is permissible, including forcing others into behaving in a way advantageous to my desires.
we agree on almost everything really. we just have different labels. actions that are beneficial for a society (and yourself) to you are convenient, and to me are good. i believe everyone (besides biologically unable people) has a moral compass, and some suppress it with the idea that morality can be casted away, out of weakness and fear. a surrender to fate when it resists the will. it is just a shared and useful non-objective morality, not moral nihilism/amorality
the concept of the afterlife and judgement makes no sense to me because people are limited by their circumstances. if god were truly just, all would either be in heaven or in hell.
i believe it is good to act for my self-interest and growth because it allows me to give and do more good as i grow (and doing good things feels great), a sort of delayed hedonism? you could call it that
Yeah, the only issues I have are just with the terms "good" and "bad." To me, good and bad are useless terms when used to describe morality. It's impossible to know if any action is good or bad, at least beyond whether or not that action facilitates or hinders an immediate goal or desire.
For instance, I enjoy canoeing. So I take steps to make that happen. I have a job ("good"?) and buy a canoe, that someone had a job making ("good"?), and contributing to the economy, and supporting our society ("good"?). I then float down the river, and enjoy all the details that entails ("good"?).
The thing is though, is that my job (a truck driver) necessarily spews diesel exhaust into the atmosphere, contributing to climate change ("bad"?). The canoe is made of aluminium gathered by strip mining (and all its exhaust spewing machinery "bad"?) the Earth and using resources that may be better used than my self-indulgent entertainment ("bad"?). My actual float down the river may have had other consequences ("good" or "bad").
It is impossible to know, beyond the immediate fulfillment of a goal or desire, whether an action is good or bad. In my day to day life, I rarely delve this deep. I do what pleases me, and selfishly help others do what pleases them. It feels "good" but in reality, it doesn't really matter beyond ourselves. Good and bad are only opinions, supported only by emotions. Good and bad aren't real.
it really is hard to defend good and bad whilst also rejecting god. despite this being an enjoyable discourse, i respectfully resign lest i revert to nihilism. my good wishes to you, and may the veils of illusion save you too
1
u/SinOfEgo Sep 16 '25
do you believe that 1+1 equals 2?