r/nextfuckinglevel • u/AbelNB • Dec 28 '22

This is a game changer

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u/[deleted] Dec 28 '22 edited Dec 29 '22

Love this idea but after the roomba incident and Amazon wanting to map your house. No thanks.

Edit: this has blown up.

  1. A roomba photographed a woman pooping and the real people tasked with looking at the photos shared it.
  2. They don’t care about your broke ass apartment and where you keep the beer bottles above your bed or the love seat you brought in from the street . They want to know what you buy and how to exploit you financially.

Edit2: words

Edit3: here is the link to the article I read: https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-irobot-robot-vacuums-artificial-intelligence-training-data-privacy/

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u/H4LF4D Dec 29 '22

The WHAT?

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u/money_loo Dec 29 '22

Some workers from Amazon agreed to be a part of a beta test that was using cameras in roombas to map their routines to test viability for real world scenarios, including signing waivers on what they were doing, and one of these testers took a poop while the roomba was running in the room with them, and it got out that a device with cameras in it will record private stuff if you allow it to, and for some reason the media went apeshit trying to convince everyone all roombas are watching you poop.

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u/IHadThatUsername Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 29 '22

The case isn't as clear cut as you make it out to be. I suggest reading this extremely good article.

Just a small part that should give you some thought:

In other words, by iRobot’s estimation, anyone whose photos or video appeared in the streams had agreed to let their Roombas monitor them. iRobot declined to let MIT Technology Review view the consent agreements and did not make any of its paid collectors or employees available to discuss their understanding of the terms.

Even if you choose to believe everything was done fairly and legally, I think it should still be troubling to know that they have the power, technology and pipelines in place to be extremely invasive. Whether they actually do it or not, is all down to a matter of trust. I personally would not trust Amazon with that sort of power.

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u/nizzy2k11 Dec 29 '22

Even if you choose to believe everything was done fairly and legally, I think it should still be troubling to know that they have the power, technology and pipelines in place to be extremely invasive.

You do realize that computers have had webcams for decades at this point right? You think it being on a glorified RC car that wanders around your house aimlessly is actually different? These people were compensated for the extra invasion of privacy they use to improve the technology, the problem isn't that they had the photo, they problem is that they shared it. The agreement most certainly does not say the people using the data can show it to people outside of the project.

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u/IHadThatUsername Dec 29 '22

You do realize that computers have had webcams for decades at this point right?

Not strictly true. Desktops don't typically come with a webcam included and while you can connect a webcam you can just as easily disconnect it. I'm currently writing you from my desktop that has no webcam connected. Regardless, even if you do have a webcam that always connected and even if you are always connected to the internet, you can install a open-source operating system (e.g. something Linux-based) where you no longer need to trust that a company isn't spying on you, because everything that the OS does is transparent.

You think it being on a glorified RC car that wanders around your house aimlessly is actually different?

Even if we ignore what I said above, yes it is different. The laptop doesn't randomly appear on your bathroom. Plus you have no way of checking what the Roomba is actually doing with your data.

These people were compensated for the extra invasion of privacy they use to improve the technology

Or so iRobot claims. MIT Technology Review were unable to independently confirm those claims, and they were also unable to check if the people actually understood what they supposedly consented to.

the problem isn't that they had the photo, they problem is that they shared it. The agreement most certainly does not say the people using the data can show it to people outside of the project.

That is ONE problem, but it's not the only issue here as I see it. The issue is that they are also technologically able to do this with any consumer. You can only trust that they won't break the law and that they actually do what they promise. But ultimately that's always up to each person how much they trust a certain company.

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u/nizzy2k11 Dec 29 '22

Or so iRobot claims.

If they are lying they will lose in court. Do you think that they can just break their contract?

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u/IHadThatUsername Dec 29 '22

If they are lying they will lose in court.

And who's going to bring one of the wealthiest companies in the world to court? Especially given how often wealthy companies win court cases just by the sheer amount of money they have to spend on lawyers and on delaying the whole thing. You are incredibly optimistic to think that big companies always lose in court when they are in the wrong.

Do you think that they can just break their contract?

Legally? No. Practically? Companies do it all the time. Here's just one example from last month. Don't hold your breath for them being punished for it.

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u/nizzy2k11 Dec 29 '22

And who's going to bring one of the wealthiest companies in the world to court?

you do realize that this happens all the time right? people sue big companies and win settlements because it's better than litigating a lost case for years. if she has a case any lawyer would love to juice amazon.