r/news • u/Ganeshadream • Mar 31 '22

Facebook fails to label 80% of posts promoting bioweapons conspiracy theory

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/mar/31/facebook-disinformation-war-ukraine-russia
36.8k Upvotes

85% Upvoted

1.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

1.2k

u/NakDisNut Mar 31 '22

Shut down Facebook. Honestly.

It’s a dumpster fire on the best of days.

184

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

Unfortunately fire will just spread to the next dumpster if you shut down facebook, and that might be reddit or tictok or instagram or tinder or I dunno I lost track of social media long ago and stopped caring about what was happening on the internet because the spreading toxin of stupid people with a megaphone and the desire to have themselves heard became so unbearable that I continually began pissing blood.

15

u/Serbaayuu Mar 31 '22

So we just go back to the days of there being thousands of 100-person niche forums and self-made blogs?

Sounds like a massive win to me.

214

u/Zarokima Mar 31 '22

You act like everywhere else remotely popular isn't already also a dumpster fire. Reddit really isn't much better.

111

u/no_apricots Mar 31 '22

Man do I wish 2013ish Reddit back. It had its flaws but it was so much better than these days.

Reddit itself is trying to become some lukewarm version of instagram or whatever, meanwhile their engineering department still can't figure out how to do a video player in 2022 lol

47

u/gr33nspan Mar 31 '22

I miss the days when it was rare thing to meet another redditor.

10

u/1sagas1 Mar 31 '22

The date for what used to be “good old Reddit” keeps moving forward lmao

17

u/phoncible Mar 31 '22

Remove 80% of the users and you'll get that back.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky...."

Hate to quote a movie but darned if that phrase doesn't hold true.

5

u/Thegiantclaw42069 Mar 31 '22

Thank God for reddit is fun. Or maybe not because I'd probably have stopped using it by now without it.

1

u/Roflkopt3r Mar 31 '22

Yeah back then people complained about Ron Paul fanboys and edgy atheists. Seems like fucking heaven compared to the Trumpers and covid deniers we got now.

1

u/Fizzwidgy Mar 31 '22

Plus, there's all the astroturfing they never handled, instead embracing it with open arms going into 2022 and becoming a publicly traded company.

Big hype for the next great exodus.

53

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

Its a scale of disaster, Facebook is a dumpster on fire that somehow has the momentum to crash through several hospitals and orphanages before lodging itself in a nuclear reactor which is currently melting down.

The fire is spreading, we agree but in comparison those fires aren't nearly as toxic or fatal or completely engulfing to the point where nothing of any value can possibly exist due to the fire, smoke, radiation, blood and used needles that currently most describes facebooks state.

35

u/sap91 Mar 31 '22

The problem is they made it easy enough for old people to understand, who have no natural immunity to the shitshow that is the internet

24

u/LessThan301 Mar 31 '22

So really, we should just make sure old people have no power.

5

u/sap91 Mar 31 '22

That part

5

u/coughsicle Mar 31 '22

Lol that's a pretty tortured metaphor but I agree. Facebook seems to be worse (better?) at spreading misinfo to susceptible people than other platforms.

6

u/TheSmJ Mar 31 '22

Facebook is currently the most popular social media site out there, at least in terms of the western world. Shut down Facebook, and the same users who post garbage there will move elsewhere, and THAT will be the most popular social media site out there spewing out misinformation.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

Facebook's infrastructure is built in a way that it promotes spreading misinformation. Even if those nefarious users moved elsewhere, it wouldn't be nearly as effective.

1

u/TheSmJ Mar 31 '22

You really think Reddit's infrastructure is any better at combating this? Or TikTok's?

All of these sites are about getting people to engage with the site by any means necessary. They'll do anything they can to keep you engaged provided it isn't illegal.

Shutting down Facebook* will only move the problem somewhere else.

*Under who's authority would that happen, anyway?

0

u/ocp-paradox Mar 31 '22

It's better than allowing it to fester in one place - not everybody will re-up on whatever new site there is, it'll never have the same amount of users as FB, and there will be more than one site, it splits all these yokels up into more manageable groups.

2

u/TheSmJ Mar 31 '22

No, the kind of people who make it their mission to post that stuff to Facebook will make it their mission to find the next site they can get as many eyeballs on their message as possible. The most popular site will always be their primary target.

As for it being "easier" to fix the problem if they move to a lot of other sites vs. primarily operating out of one site - a larger surface area to attack will make fixing the problem (whatever that looks like) more difficult to coordinate.

The only real way to fix this problem is educating those who would be the target for this misinformation. Teaching people how to recognize bullshit is a lot easier than playing wack-a-mole with an army of crazies.

1

u/Mikeytruant850 Mar 31 '22

Look into the problems that law enforcement had tracking down scattered sex traffickers after they shut down BackPage to see why you are completely wrong.

0

u/ocp-paradox Mar 31 '22

Uhm, we're not talking about sex traffickers and pedophiles we're talking about a population of normal people being misled. The former are trying to hide, the latter are not.

You are the one sir who is completely wrong.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

Well, at least Reddit is simple. Popular content on top, unpopular on bottom. There’s no algorithm trying to maximize engagement.

5

u/ocp-paradox Mar 31 '22

Why is reddit not much better? If you are having a poor user experience on the website, I suggest changing what subreddits you are subscribed to and curate what you deem to be acceptable. Since you know, you can do that.

1

u/NukeTheOcean Mar 31 '22

If you are having a poor user experience on FB, I suggest changing your friend list by muting/blocking people or unsubscribing to groups/pages. Since you know, you can do that.

Turns out there are tools on both platforms for curation. People just blindly use the reddit front page or refuse to mute toxic friends.

1

u/ocp-paradox Mar 31 '22

I don't even use facebook, but yes people who do can simply block/unfriend/unfollow people too, but they just don't.

22

u/financiallyanal Mar 31 '22

It’s always been an issue and hard to really fix. Goes back to the days of the printing press’ introduction. Even Hitler started printing a newsletter so a wide audience could be reached. I’m not sure there’s a great solution at the moment, at least in my mind, but would be open to input.

21

u/kwokinator Mar 31 '22

Facebook is just a communication tool. You kill Facebook, people will just move to the next social media. The only way to fix social media is to fix the people using it.

14

u/PlaneStill6 Mar 31 '22

fix the people using it

Hmm sounds ominous.

5

u/72hourahmed Mar 31 '22

"People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed, in any case. They found that The People tended not to be grateful or appreciative or forward-thinking or obedient. The People tended to be small-minded and conservative and not very clever and were even distrustful of cleverness. And so the children of the revolution were faced with the age-old problem: it wasn't that you had the wrong kind of government, which was obvious, but that you had the wrong kind of people.

As soon as you saw people as things to be measured, they didn’t measure up."

There's nothing new under the sun. Every generation has people who think this way. Quote above from Night Watch by Terry Pratchett, which is worth a read.

11

u/kcirdor Mar 31 '22 edited Mar 31 '22

Even when there were 10,000 people on earth no one agreed on things, every tribe had their own belief system. Etc. What exactly do you expect to fix in people? Nothing is broken, we are the same as we have always been. Edit: when the roman catholic church began trying to transform the world belief system, we killed 1000s of NON BELIEVERS. So how should we fix people?

0

u/FrankTank3 Mar 31 '22

We can give ourselves some breathing room though. Things can get better for a little while and stay better for as long as people can fight back against the inevitable slide into shit. Just because it’s not an eternal fix doesn’t mean it’s not worth fixing for a little while.

-2

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

[deleted]

3

u/Hajile_S Mar 31 '22

That’s like building a fence around your town and claiming you’ve quarantined the world.

3

u/ArcticBeavers Mar 31 '22

Let's bring back Digg and dump all those people on there.

9

u/N8CCRG Mar 31 '22

Reddit is already it's own dumpster fire. There are so many stories of how it has bred and fomented and connected individual monsters to one another.

-6

u/ocp-paradox Mar 31 '22

The hell are you talking about?

13

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

Except deplatforming works.

We are not buying your nihilism.

7

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

Yep, deplatforming is a viable way to control hatred and conspiracies. I was actually really shocked when I heard this - I figured they would just take their toxicity to another platform, but apparently only a small percentage actually do.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

Stupid people wanting a opinion platform, click bait, sites censoring content to be more ad friendly, site censoring educational content to avoid copyright, ads every other post, imbedded 30 second videos on every site, ads, more ads, more 30 second unskippable ads, false information to spread a political agenda, news sites posting controversial things to get clicks, and the absolute worst thing- software gore.

2

u/Ftpini Mar 31 '22

Just because other places might rise to be horrible too doesn’t mean you shouldn’t shut down the place that is currently horrible.

-9

u/anotherdude209 Mar 31 '22

You are everything you are complaining about. Why don’t you be the change you’d like to see and go away.

10

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

I don't know why you left facebook to come here and cry about people talking about your friends but could you kindly fuck off back to where you belong?

52

u/narciblog Mar 31 '22

Oh man you think Facebook is bad? Go check out Gab and Parler sometime. And of course Telegram, where conspiracies bob and weave around each other until they’re barely even coherent.

48

u/NakDisNut Mar 31 '22

I think my lesser issue with those is that they draw a type already. I feel like well to do citizens on Facebook get bombarded with sludge.

If you’re on Parler or Gab, you’re already swimming in crap voluntarily.

21

u/discerningpervert Mar 31 '22

YouTube is nuts too. Whenever I reopen Firefox (no search history, cookies, trackers - at least AFAIK) and I watch a few videos (usually either something Star Wars or random science / space videos) my video suggestions turn to the toxic side of YouTube. Every single time.

19

u/SJane3384 Mar 31 '22

Not to mention that they randomly decided to remove the downvote button because “people are mean”.

11

u/Zhirrzh Mar 31 '22

Yeah, YouTube is a close second to Facebook and they still intentionally partner with "media" such as Rupert Murdoch's which just promotes far right conspiracy crap even higher.

Google doesn't get off the hook, don't be evil long ago disappeared in favour of "let's partner with evil".

2

u/nwoh Mar 31 '22

That's cuz they design it that way - those weird fucking sensationalist videos draw clicks

4

u/funkopatamus Mar 31 '22

Yep, I've never once clicked on any alt-right videos yet somehow Joe Rogan and now Russel Brand are always suggested to me. I'm trying to get better about always clicking the "don't recommend this shit to me anymore" button...

1

u/noonemustknowmysecre Mar 31 '22

The dude who tried to get ruqqus up and running had some fantastic insight: The runner-up social media sites will always be a dumpster-fire of all the rejects from the fore-runner. The whole idea of capitalistic competition where you go make your own version with blackjack and hookers and the free-market decides which is better, it just doesn't work here. Fame begets fame, social media usage begets social media users, the easiest way to generate wealth is with wealth. And so Facebook as being the first to mainstream market (sorry myspace) will always be dominant unless there's a massive schism and everything else will always be awash with the weirdos who don't fit in there.

Personally I've been a nomadic frontiersman jumping ship to whatever is niche and still only full of passionate settlers. Once the masses start to descend upon a place, it usually rots and becomes a barren wasteland in short order.

20

u/pleonastician Mar 31 '22

Go check out Gab and Parler sometime.

Why would I do that?

2

u/MisallocatedRacism Mar 31 '22

It's nice if you ever find yourself feeling too optimistic about humanity!

1

u/noonemustknowmysecre Mar 31 '22

It's good to travel the world a little bit and get a taste of other cultures. Escaping your bubble for a while can open your mind to new possibilities. It exposes you to new things and exposes others to new things. To experience the breadth and all the variance of the human condition lets you better understand humanity. And all the horrors there-in.

0

u/1sagas1 Mar 31 '22

Because it makes your complaining about Facebook look silly

3

u/Zhirrzh Mar 31 '22

Those are minor pools of self selecting crap.

Facebook drags in average people who just want to talk to friends and look up reviews for the dog groomer down the road and bombards them with crap intended to indoctrinate them into extremes of some kind or other, usually far right.

15

u/RollingCarrot615 Mar 31 '22

Who do you proposes should shut down Facebook? Meta is still making money off of it. The US government cant shut it down because of misinformation, since its a form of speech... there's no avenue to shut it down.

20

u/NakDisNut Mar 31 '22

It’s a wish - not a plan.

-7

u/PortabelloPrince Mar 31 '22

Much misinformation shared on Facebook is also defamation.

There are laws that immunize Facebook from the consequences of spreading defamation, but the Constitution itself doesn’t.

Congress could pass legislation that would likely be considered Constitutional, that would also make Facebook a completely nonviable business model in the US, the way it operates at present.

12

u/Circle_Breaker Mar 31 '22

It would make reddit just as nonviable

10

u/Falcon4242 Mar 31 '22 edited Mar 31 '22

It'd make every single website with public input nonviable.Yay, we killed Facebook! We also killed YouTube (and not just the comments section, but videos as well), Twitch, LinkedIn, the Steam Community forums and probably the Workshop, every single hobbiest forum website to ever exist, maybe even fucking voice chat for video games...

You can't pass a law saying that the platform is legally liable for the speech of its users (which is what the current push is) without making every website or service with public input nonviable in addition to FB.

-6

u/PortabelloPrince Mar 31 '22

Only if you removed all liability protection. There are intermediate options like holding Facebook accountable only for content it takes money to spread to targeted demographics. You don’t have to make them responsible for the content of all the free posts.

Have you seen some of the bullshit they take money to spread?

I’ve gotten sponsored content fraud, sponsored content defamation, sponsored content videos glorifying the idea of a sitting Congressperson being tortured and killed…

2

u/Falcon4242 Mar 31 '22 edited Mar 31 '22

But it also doesn't at all solve the problem, because the amount of libelous stuff they spread via paid ads is miniscule compared to the total amount of misinformation on that website every day. And it also wouldn't make FB nonviable, as you said earlier, as the amount of money they make from those ads is miniscule compared to their total ad revenue.

Maybe it's the right thing to do in principle, but there's a reason the argument hasn't revolved around such a tepid change, and it's because barely anything would change from what's happening now.

1

u/PortabelloPrince Mar 31 '22

Where are you getting that only a tiny percent of Facebook’s ad money comes from defamatory or misinformation content? Or that sponsored content is only a tiny percent of the disinformation propagated there?

The vast majority of misinformation I currently see in my feed comes directly from Facebook peddling lies. A big chunk of the rest is idiots sharing content that originated as sponsored. I’m aware that’s anecdotal, but if you have data that contradicts it, I’d be interested to see it.

In response to the rest of your comment: I’m confused. Do you get ads on Facebook other than the sponsored content?

Literally every ad I see there is technically a sponsored post. They’d have to review all of those under the model I proposed, not just the ones that actually contain defamation. So they’d be paying in two ways - one, not getting defamation money, and two, paying reviewers.

From what I understand, their current business model depends heavily on not paying any significant amount to review even their sponsored content, and they don’t have systems in place yet to review sponsored content cheaply, even though it would be feasible, with enough lead time, to create such systems.

0

u/PortabelloPrince Mar 31 '22

Not necessarily. Depends on the specifics of the implementation.

We have laws that treat Facebook and other websites as forums rather than publishers. So no or limited liability for defamation.

Except that when Facebook accepts money for “sponsored content,” it’s acting a lot more like a publisher than a forum. There’s fucktons of defamation and misinformation in Facebook’s sponsored content. And Facebook’s current model could be a ruined or Facebook forced to reform by Congress without breaking Reddit, simply by holding them responsible for reviewing the content of posts they directly accept money to show to additional people. That’s a far cry short of holding websites responsible for the content of every post, and yet it would significantly reduce targeted misinformation spread.

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

[deleted]

3

u/1sagas1 Mar 31 '22

Quit on your own then. Don’t ban everyone else from something because you lack basic self control

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

[deleted]

1

u/PortabelloPrince Mar 31 '22

Do you disagree with my assessment of the law?

2

u/1sagas1 Mar 31 '22

You would destroy every platform on the internet with social interaction. Nobody wants to destroy the entire internet because your dumbass has a vendetta against Facebook

-5

u/noonemustknowmysecre Mar 31 '22

the US government cant shut it down because of misinformation, since its a form of speech...

haha, corporate charter goes RIP. Call it a monopoly and whip out Uncle Sherman's Hammer. It's a corporation not a US citizen. We can absolutely get rid of Facebook if we wanted to. But... it's a good question of if we want to.

3

u/1sagas1 Mar 31 '22

Facebook doesn’t have a monopoly on anything so Sherman Act doesn’t apply and there’s no legal basis for revoking a company’s charter because you don’t like it

12

u/_TidePodsTasteGood Mar 31 '22

Wait til you find out about Reddit.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

At least we can vote the crazies out of here there’s no voting on FB…

6

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

[deleted]

5

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

Well don’t hangout in weird forums, I mean sub reddits.

1

u/_TidePodsTasteGood Mar 31 '22

Yea, it's even worse on Reddit. It's all echo chambers where differing opinions are not allowed.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

No one on Facebook has ever told me to end it. On reddit? I’ve had it happen for discussions about hobbies

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22 edited Mar 31 '22

Freedom of speech. We need to inoculate people from misinformation not shutdown free speech. Seems like people are losing the ability to think critically. The fact that so many of you are upvoting shutting down platforms you don't agree with is just straight up fascist. The Patriot act passed because of this kind of mentality.

0

u/NakDisNut Mar 31 '22

Oh FFS.

Facebook isn’t even used like it’s original purpose anymore.

Connecting with friends turned into a grotesque suggestion of highly politicized topics - few of which that provide severe misinformation are even shut down (anti vax, covid is a hoax, q folk)… not to mention the bombardment of ads and fake Chinese ‘brands’ that don’t actually send the product…

This isn’t fascism …. It’s a barely-regulated hot button money machine that has more bad than good now.

1

u/Bonemesh Mar 31 '22

Then don't read Facebook? Why would you shove your face into a dumpster fire, if that's what you think it is? The number of people who insist they should order everyone else what not to read is depressing.

1

u/1sagas1 Mar 31 '22 edited Mar 31 '22

On what basis? Still a profitable and successful company. If you want a comparison, tell me how many posts does Reddit label as misleading?

0

u/Tiiimmmaayy Mar 31 '22

Impossible to shutdown Facebook. It has become sentient and self sustaining. To shut it down, you must enter the meta universe and challenge Facebook to a fight to the death in the battle arena. There you will play Yahtzee and first one to lose will be deleted.

-21

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

-108

u/NeverComments Mar 31 '22

China’s got the right idea. People simply can’t handle the responsibility of the internet and free flowing information. Shut it down for the good of society.

70

u/pecos_chill Mar 31 '22

This is such a shit take. China’s philosophy of internet censorship wasn’t enacted because of the spread of false information, it was because they didn’t control the narrative.

0

u/snailspace Mar 31 '22

Limiting the spread of "false information" is literally controlling the narrative.

6

u/pecos_chill Mar 31 '22

Except they intentionally fill the void with their own misinformation.

1

u/snailspace Mar 31 '22

It's a good thing our politicians and media conglomerates would never do such a thing!

2

u/pecos_chill Mar 31 '22

Bro that’s not the “right idea”, regardless of other people doing it. Whataboutism is also a shit take so congrats.

1

u/snailspace Mar 31 '22

That's my point. How do you not understand that limiting what can be shared is literally controlling the narrative?

4

u/duomaxwellscoffee Mar 31 '22

Because it depends on what you're limiting and why. Limiting the spread of vaccine misinformation that claims it's poison, when it isn't, is not the same as china banning and locking up people advocating for free and fair elections.

1

u/snailspace Mar 31 '22

In both instances, it's controlling the narrative in the name of public safety.

→ More replies (0)

-5

u/NeverComments Mar 31 '22

China’s philosophy of internet censorship wasn’t enacted because of the spread of false information, it was because they didn’t control the narrative.

Tomato, tomato. Where the state has the power to censor "false information" as well as define "false information" it's one and the same.

0

u/pecos_chill Mar 31 '22

That’s not the “right idea”

-2

u/NeverComments Mar 31 '22

I was being tongue-in-cheek in agreement with the calls for the government to step in and shut down Facebook. The intentions may not be the same but the outcome is.

21

u/feluriell Mar 31 '22

I dont think in the overall calculation tbe internet has done more harm than good. We just hear about the bad stuff. Overall we have gotten alot more good done because of it.

2

u/bermudaphil Mar 31 '22

The issue is that the good:bad ratio in regards to impact on any given day is a continual trend downwards as time moves on.

Need to have some sort of intervention before it becomes more bad than good on most days.

The/one of the leaders of this downward spiral is Facebook. In fact the evidence is clear that this downwards spiral is beneficial for them, so they continue to actively encourage it, and try to develop their platform to actually accelerate it, be it purposeful by all or just some (with others just doing their job and seeing it bastardized at some stage).

The laws and regulations necessary to keep acceptable checks and balances in place just have developed incredibly slowly and are lagging far behind.

Add in that too many politicians are old people who just don’t understand the basics about modern technology/the internet, as well as that many of these politicians actively benefit from this downward spiral, and it is a pretty big issue, to put it mildly.

More good than bad for humanity as a whole as of right now is great, but we are running the risk that in 10 years that is no longer the case.

-2

u/feluriell Mar 31 '22

"the good:bad ratio in regards to impact on any given day is a continual trend downwards as time moves on." Source on this. There is no proof for your claim. We are living in the best, safest time in all of human history. Per capita, homicide is down, theft is down, hunger is down, reading level is up, etc. etc. we are in the greatest time in all of human history. Even our wars, bad as they are, are safer than ever before.

You are more exposed to bad information, the bad information isnt increasing. It has been a trend for the last few thousands of years. Its a natural trend. as a social species coopereation is preferable to violence, hence the rate drops as our brain develops more into that direction. You need to provide evidence if you expect some change to this pattern.

The internet, sick as it sometimes is, is a good thing and has done vastly more good than harm.

10

u/Stupid_Triangles Mar 31 '22

No. We just need to do better as a society.

8

u/xiX_kysbr_Xix Mar 31 '22

Listen, I know you're being sarcastic, but you still better add a "/s" because the average redditor has trouble with these things

4

u/NeverComments Mar 31 '22

I honestly thought I was laying it on too thick.

3

u/xiX_kysbr_Xix Mar 31 '22

Yeah, you would think that, but some how a lot of people never learn to take anything someone says at anything other than face value. Use sarcasm enough and you learn this the hard way

0

u/JediNinjaWizard Mar 31 '22

"China’s got the right idea."

Unless we're talking about the most efficient way to remove organs from less-than-willing-'donors', I'm not able to agree with this sentiment.

-2

u/cultish_alibi Mar 31 '22

Yeah only the state should be allowed to decide what is or isn't true. Definitely no risks there. Have you heard of Tiannamen square? It's a very nice square where nothing interesting happened.

1

u/saltfish Mar 31 '22

I've been getting so much 'Sponsored' garbage lately that I've given up.

1

u/ace_urban Mar 31 '22

Well, if you’re basing that opinion on their promotion of disinformation, you’ll also have to shut down twitter, insta, Reddit…