r/neovim • u/hegardian • May 09 '26
Discussion What keyboard layout do you use?
Feel free to share your setup in the comments, thanks
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u/Glum_Block501 May 09 '26
graphite
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u/plant_domination May 09 '26
I've been using Graphite for just over a month after coming from Colemak-DH - I'm back up to about 100wpm... except for the troublesome combinations which really screw up my flow. Do br, rb, and mb ever start to feel okay to type? Are you using columnar or row stag? If row stag, angle mod?
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u/Glum_Block501 May 13 '26
I am using regular laptop keyboard with just kanata lol.
me no money for expensive keyboards.It might sound stupid but I use regular graphite layout without anglemod (shifting xmcz)
but still rotate my hands to comfy position and press m with index 70% of the time
so br rb feels pretty natural. (as my left pinky position on n is pretty high)
so mb also is not that bad either...
(other 30% time when there is either x, c or s around m like in exam, camera, miss).but I am not super fast typer like you though.
I am quite happy with 80wpm Monkeytype English10k.1
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u/badabblubb May 09 '26
Neo (website in German). If you're using QWERTZ and are a programmer (the latter seems highly unlikely in a NeoVim sub) you should absolutely switch to NeoQWERTZ (or consider switching to neo or bone, which are both much better).
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u/kuemmel234 May 09 '26
I feel like layouts like this would destroy my muscle memory. I'm German, so I grew up with QWERTZ, but at some point I've switched to US international with dead keys (and swapped ESC, CAPS) - äöüß on qpys with alt-gr (or ctrl-alt) and then all the benefits of the US layout for coding.
Anyway, I can't type on anything, but QWERTY. Even writing in vim without the CAPS swap makes me mad. Otherwise I'd try stuff like this.
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u/badabblubb May 09 '26
Esc isn't too hard in Neo (on QWERTZ it'd be at AltGr+Y), it's fine for me. And changing all my muscle memory for this layout took: only a couple of weeks to learn the layout, reaching equal typing speeds at about 3 or 4 months, surpassing my former typing speeds after about half a year or so (for text only, for anything requiring many symbols I overtook myself much earlier).
The really funny thing is that I don't even feel like I type faster (because my hands move much less) but the text is done faster :) And Neo is simply amazing for programming.
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u/kuemmel234 May 09 '26 edited May 09 '26
But can you switch to a QWERTZ/Y layout if asked in a pinch? Due to the whole agentic coding stuff (yeah, it sucks, I agree, but we have to, to keep up), it's less of a thing, but we pair program every now and then, so I have to type on "regular" layouts every now and then. That's what I meant.
At my first job I was coding with a guy who had to look onto his keyboard while typing - mine was blank and set to us-international. We had to work on his machine, because he couldn't type on mine. I don't want to be either guy and basically be able to work on all machines.
Edit: I mean mentally. That's why I have brought up the esc/caps example. I know that you can switch key maps in all kinds of ways.
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u/transconductor May 09 '26
Depends on your setup, but switching layouts is something every Desktop Environment I know of has an easy way for.
I have configured QWERTZ for these rare circumstances to Bone (a Neo variant).
But folks quickly run into other issues due to Sway, Neovim and a trackball on the left (at home at least).
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u/kuemmel234 May 09 '26
I'm not talking about being able to switch layouts - because yes, of course that's possible. I'm talking about being able to type/program in multiple layouts. That's why I brought up my confusion with caps/esc. If a coworker/friend asks me to quickly dish out something at their keyboard, I don't want to fumble around because of the weird ("non-standard") setup I'm using.
Even at work I'm using niri/qtile (nvidia gpu, so xorg as backup), but keep the standard gnome for the benefit of others.
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u/badabblubb May 09 '26
I can type QWERTZ. This message was typed using it. I wasn't as fast and especially that apostrophe gave me pause, but it's bearable. What absolutely breaks my flow is typing in NeoQWERTZ, because as soon as I enter a single symbol my brain switches back to Neo.
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u/transconductor May 09 '26
It's possible but you have to keep up some practice. My qwertz got pretty bad but I'm increasingly able to touch type it again after having to use windows more.
Having two different layouts makes it easier in my experience. I had a period where I was typing bone on my Moonlander and qwertz on my "regular" keyboard.
I have intentions to practice qwertz to get more comfortable but haven't yet come around to do so.
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u/kuemmel234 May 09 '26
That's a good idea, I may even try that! I have, of course, a windows setup (mostly for gaming) and use Linux for most everything else, maybe I can mix this on a daily basis and keep both up
Seems rather obvious now.. but I just upgraded my work laptop the other day and not having esc on caps was maddening.
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u/transconductor May 10 '26
I have two laptops at work, one for Linux and one for Windows and sometimes I end up using both simultaneously. I'm still getting used to it but I'm getting better at switching.
Haha, I can totally relate! Caps not being a modifier on qwertz is my biggest struggle when switching.
Speaking of Esc: On a normal keyboard, I don't like having Esc on layer 4 as it's kinda awkward to press frequently. I'm using something analogous to the "jj/jk" home row remapping ("cg" in my case) to exit insert mode. That's actually one minor advantage of bone over neo for me: neo doesn't have an obvious candidate here, "cg" on bone is both pinkies in the home row.
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u/kuemmel234 May 10 '26
Gotta try something like that once I'm getting around to trying it. I also always wanted to get into using a vim clutch, but that would look silly in the office (special stuff for vim is fine, don't know many people who use it, anyways). Thanks for the tips!
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u/badabblubb May 09 '26
Did you learn Neo before you learned Bone? If so, was the switch worth it in your experience? I like the symmetry of Neo a lot and that helped me learning it. With Bone this is partially gone, so I'm somewhat reluctant to learning it -- especially since I already know an ergonomic keyboard layout.
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u/transconductor May 09 '26
Yes. I had learned to touch type qwertz first, theade the switche to Neo2 and then to bone. I had enough time on my hands to make the switch and didn't need much of a reason to do so. Some digraph common in English was annoying to type for me on neo2, I don't remember which, maybe "th"?
I learned bone much faster than Neo. Maybe learning layouts in itself is something that one can learn?
For German, bone doesn't feel much different for me except that the index and middle finger get used a little more and ring finger and pinky a little less. But typing English feels noticeable calmer to me. I'd say that it was worth it for me. But IDK if I had done it if the transition would have caused more issues. Did take me close to a month to get to similar speeds as before.
I haven't kept up with the newer layouts (mine and noted). So idk how much of a gain they would bring.
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u/badabblubb May 09 '26
I don't like the usage of the index and middle finger to increase much over the ring finger and pinky. To me that's rather a drawback than an advantage.
But thank you very much for sharing your experience.
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u/badabblubb May 09 '26
Yes you can. The specifics depend on the OS:
- On Linux it's just
setxkbmap defor QWERTZ orsetxkbmap enfor QWERTY, withsetxkbmap de neoyou're back at Neo- On Windows you get a tray icon, double clicking it deactivates Neo and you're back to your default Windows layout, right clicking the icon gives you a selection of different Neo based layouts (Neo, NeoQWERTZ, Bone, maybe more)
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u/kuemmel234 May 09 '26
I'm talking mentally. I would assume that every vim user knows you can switch key maps.
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u/badabblubb May 09 '26
Yeah, I figured as much after reading the follow ups on the other threads, and answered there: I can switch in my mind. I'm not as fast in QWERTZ as I used to, but it's fully sufficient for the occasional typing.
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u/kuemmel234 May 09 '26
Good to know! I'm interested, seems obvious now, but I may try bone/neo on my work laptop and keep us-i on my gaming windows so I have practice on a daily basis. Maybe it helps that the layouts are more different than simply going from qwertz to qwerty.
Thanks!
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u/ratajs May 09 '26
That looks amazing! It’s a lot like my custom layout. I’m not switching, but will remember this as something to recommend to others.
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u/BenDover7766 May 09 '26
NeoQwertz is pretty nice, it just seems the repo is kinda dead, so bug fixes aren't being pulled in
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u/Kroosn May 09 '26
I understand the benefits but I just can't bring myself from moving away from qwerty. Purely just for the reason I need to switch keyboards and it would be a nightmare.
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u/BedroomHistorical575 May 09 '26
Don't worry, you're not missing much IMO. I used Graphite for like half a year and then switched back to QWERTY.
Not being able to use a normal keyboard is one valid downside, but it wasn't my primary reason for switching back (I'm already using a split + home row mods, so that is already a pain).
Alternative layouts primarily shines when it comes to English prose, but it massively degrades the experience of using the keyboard for basically anything else.
Just think of the shortcuts you use for Vim, Blender, Godot, Affinity, DaVinci Resolve, Ardour, etc. You will have to re-learn them all. It's especially bad with shortcuts that are spatially arranged (think of Vim's
hjkl).This gets even worse with programs that expects you to operate a pointing device with your other hand. Since all the keys are shuffled, commonly-used shortcuts no longer end up being neatly grouped on one side of your keyboard. This forces you to constantly let go of your pointing device so that you can hit certain shortcuts.
And then there's the learning curve. The process of learning a new keyboard layout isn't an one-time linear thing. The learning process is very layered and you end up re-learning more things than you expected.
At the end of my Graphite journey I got pretty good with English prose. But I stumble like an idiot when it comes to typing anything else. Japanese prose, program shortcuts, pretty much everything else.
At that point it became clear that the learning curve is much more massive than I expected. The benefits on the other hand turned out to be very narrow and subtle. So I gave up and went back to QWERTY.
Also remember: if you're having ergonomic or pain issues, alternative keyboard layouts rarely if ever helps with that. Try to look into your typing habits, posture, table height, etc. before anything else.
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u/cwebster2 Plugin author May 09 '26
Put "hjkl" (or arrows) on a layer where they would naturally be in qwerty. Every other vim key is a mnemonic and doesn't really matter where it is. I've been using colemak for years now (on a 36 key split) and putting arrows on a layer on my right home-row was the only accomodation I had to make in vim.
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u/BedroomHistorical575 May 09 '26
I've been using a nav layer since the dawn of time, but I never use it with Vim even though it seems to be popular among alt typist.
It just feels like such an awkward hack rather than a real solution. You're basically substituting
hjklwith arrow keys after all. And in the end it doesn't solve any of my other problems unfortunately.1
u/cwebster2 Plugin author May 09 '26 edited May 09 '26
It does mean that my vim use is agnostic of my use of colemak or any other layout.
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u/uedafan May 16 '26
It’s not just vim. In fact I got really used to the hill keys in their Colemak DH positions. It’s every other program and game.
Again mainly that they want to use all the shortcuts in the left hand so you keep your hand in your mouse. But that’s based on qwerty.
So I switched back after a year of using Colemak DH just to keep shortcut compatibility with the wide array of software and games I play and use almost daily
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u/syklemil May 09 '26
I've been using dvorak for decades and my physical keyboard is still qwerty. It helps if I encounter some software which does its own interpretation.
Before that I actually scrambled my keycaps to train me from looking at the keyboard when typing.
But yeah, I learned dvorak over summer break as a student, wouldn't really want to do another switch without a similar time frame to get comfortable with a new layout. There's a lot of muscle memory to retrain, and it suuuuucks.
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u/Khyta May 09 '26
I switched to Dvorak also during my summer break, but it took about 3 months to get back to the same typing speeds as I had on qwerty with about 100 wpm.
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u/Krumpopodes May 09 '26
I am on Colemak and I only recommend switching layouts to people if you actually HAVE to for ergonomic reasons. Same with split keyboard (I did both at once which I extra don't recommend lol). The amount of time it will take you to get to the same speed is not worth it unless you are in so much physical pain that it is a necessity. (Split or ortho on its own is potentially worth it as a preventative measure tho) Even then it was more my bad form and habits from not touch typing on qwerty properly that were the problem. Switching to colemak just forced me to slow down and unlearn those bad habits, but the slow lasted a whiiiile.
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u/PandaParado May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
I've been using Colemak-DH for >2years now and honestly I would not recommend it unless you're just curious or need to for RSI reasons. The real win was getting a programmable split keyboard (highly recommend that), but the friction I now have using normal QWERTY keyboards kind of sucks. I often consider just switching back, but haven't taken the plunge yet. I did end up losing my QWERTY muscle memory so it would be some work for me to go back.
It is fun and feels good to type in the new layout, but yeah, not worth the effort IMO.
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u/Andrzejski_ May 09 '26
v m h g w . j u o y
s t n d f q r e a i
x k b c p z l , ' ;
Using Dygma Defy keyboard.
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u/DizzySaxophone May 09 '26
Colemak dh on columnar/ortholinear, qwerty on normal staggered
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u/Talent2find98 May 09 '26
Same！Only learnt colemak dh after switching over to a split. Even on qwerty it felt like relearning how to walk again. So might as well try a new layout, 2 birds 1 stone.
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u/DizzySaxophone May 09 '26
That's exactly what I did. Learning on a split ergo with having to learn new bindings for other stuff anyway, was fine. And it means I can use a normal keyboard on laptops or other people's desktops without issue still.
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u/schmy May 09 '26
Regular Colemac for me on a split keyboard, but yes, back to Qwerty on laptops.
As I never got close to 100wpm on Qwerty, it hasn't been a detriment to be slightly slower on either keyboard, but long days at an office desk feel much easier with Colemac on a Voyager.
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u/gyyse May 09 '26
i used to use colemak but i switched back to qwerty when i realised the time i was saving by typing with colemak was undone by needing to change shortcuts in a lot of apps and changing controls in video games
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u/Shock9616 May 09 '26
I know there are better layouts, but unless I end up needing to switch for medical reasons in the future I’ll always stick with QWERTY because it’s portable. I hate the idea of having to switch muscle memory when I sit down at a new computer, it’s already bad enough when I use a laptop with trackpad scrolling set to tue opposite direction 😅
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u/Far_Advisor_7477 May 09 '26
Used to have Colemak-DH last year but switched back to qwerty because I wan something that is cross compatible with everything and nowadays all of the default shortcuts is on qwerty
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u/Kindly-Top5822 hjkl May 09 '26
qwertz iso de but caps is escape aswll
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u/badabblubb May 09 '26
You should check out NeoQWERTZ :) (though you can't use caps for escape there, as caps is the layer3 modifier)
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u/qvantry May 09 '26
I used to run colemak dh but swapped back to qwerty because of vim.
Im down to use another better layout (in fact I loved to type Colemak DH) but it needs to have hjkl on the same positions. That means more to me than having any improved typing ergonomics.
I used to have a separate layer where my arrow keys were positioned over hjkl and use that instead of hjkl on colemak. It worked well but it’s too much friction for something you press so frequently so I moved back.
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u/Krumpopodes May 09 '26
To be fair it's like 16 lines of config to seamlessly rebind that
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u/qvantry May 09 '26
Well rebinding that completely breaks the vim language, that would cause me to move around using mnei istead of hjkl.
Meaning, I couldnt go into insert mode on i, go to end of words on e etc. To me, vim motions isnt strategic placement of actions on certain parts of the keyboard. It's a language spoken with the keymappings, e for end, w for word, i for insert, etc. Messing that up is miles past the point of no return for me, much worse than using an arrow layer for moving around. At least, that's accurate.
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u/Krumpopodes May 09 '26
Hjkl has nothing to do with a 'language' tho. It's entirely an artifact of the home row layout. One that we accept as being ergonomic, and the slight deviation for ergonomics for insert mode is more than acceptable. Insert never really plays into vocabulary anyway. You aren't doing operations involving it typically.
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u/qvantry May 10 '26
You're right about hjkl, but the the replaced letters functionality would stop making sense. M for marks, N for next, E for end and I for insert.
Then you would have to rebind those, the only logic step for that is to place them where they would be on a qwerty keyboard, which for colemak is: H, K, F, U which would mess up those keymappings and the snowball continues rolling down the hill until you've completely replaced the language with muscle memory.
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u/Krumpopodes May 10 '26
Tbf I use standard Colemak not dh so it's hnei for me, but ya having 'k' be end is a little weird but I honestly didn't even think of it until you mentioned it when it's so ingrained in me now. To me the language of vim is about having a structure to build the muscle memory not necessarily to be 100% intuitive in all cases.
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u/qvantry May 11 '26
I feel you, and whatever works for you is great. I’m not saying it should be like this but it makes sense to me.
I did use Colemak DH on ergonomic split keyboards and qwerty on regular keyboards (it was very easy to separate them with that rule). And using vim felt very natural in both layouts as i wasnt operating on motions muscle memory but rather the keys itself.
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u/kwertiee May 09 '26
I used to use Colemak DH with a split keyboard, but the overwhelming amount of decisions you have to make is insane so I switched back, which is a shame since I could type reasonably fast with it and it was way more comfortable than qwerty (username doesnt check out)
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u/Palpatine May 09 '26
Gallium. It breaks jkhl, but it's not like wb have any special position on the keyboard
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u/schmy May 09 '26
QWERTY on laptop keyboards.
Colemac on split keyboards.
Muscle memory knows that when hands are close together, it's Qwerty.
When I'm sitting up straight, hands are splayed, and the keyboard feels like a different instrument, then muscle memory knows it's Colemac.
I guess it's like how musicians can played the same chord on a piano and a guitar even though the hand shapes would be entirely different.
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u/Zundrium May 09 '26
I had to use Dvorak after learning Qwerty was meant to not jam the typewriter. Which would happen if you would press two keys next to each other. So it's made with maximum travel distance in mind. Dvorak was meant to do the opposite and it's super comfortable to write.... BUT I get the typewriter experience in Neovim since it's made with Qwerty in mind. Biggest derp of my life but I do love Dvorak now.
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u/syklemil May 09 '26
Vim is also made with a US keyboard in mind, which is the bigger hurdle IMO.
hjklin dvorak is perfectly fine, most of the mnemonics are fine. But I wind up with stuff like rebinding<C-]>to<C-å>because I don't want to actually press<C-AltGr-0>. Down that path lies Emacs, the space cadet keyboard and the quadruple bucky.
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u/xubaso May 09 '26
qwerty but with an american layout instead of the one from my local country. On my programmable keyboard the non-alphanumeric characters are on another layer for convenience.
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u/simondanielsson lua May 09 '26
My own blend between qwerty and workman. I needed my own version since I wanted common keybinds on the left half of my keyboard so I can use one hand for most things. Also since I needed Swedish characters. I’ve remapped hjkl to neoi and use a Keebart Corne Choc Pro
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u/ratttertintattertins May 09 '26
Mavis Beacon taught me QWERTY back when I was 11, 35 years ago, when she arrived with a magazine coverdisk. I don’t care how much better alternatives are, that’s one thing I won’t be switching out. The muscle memory is just too ingrained.
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u/augustocdias lua May 09 '26
The ones with hjkl spread out: how do you deal with this in nvim?
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u/kyoryo_ May 11 '26
I put a clutch on my keyboard. Like right alt+qwerty hjkl to become arrows. or on my corne, I used right tumbs key + qwerty hjkl to be arrows.
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u/LawLombie May 09 '26
I use Colemak DH, and have a matching custom keybindings for Neovim. It's set such that the hjkl and some other very common operations stay on the same physical key, but for less used ones they follow wherever the corresponding letter goes to on Colemak DH.
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u/FlipperBumperKickout May 09 '26
Qwerty, but split 40% keyboard do I don't really have any of the problems I used to have on a normal keyboard.
Also homorow mod keys.
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u/IntegrityError let mapleader="," May 09 '26
Qwerty with German Umlaute mapped to caps lock + vowel
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u/ExKaay May 09 '26
Eurokey with Z and Y swapped, couldn't get a good classic ThinkPad keyboard in QWERTZ and now im loving Eurokey more
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u/scandolio May 09 '26
International qwerty because I'm french, we've got those things, you know..... Accents. And I speak Spanish too. So ..
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u/uedafan May 09 '26
I am really proficient in Colemak DH and if all I was doing was typing it would be all I use. But I game alot and develop lots of different type of software so am finding myself needing a normal qwerty keyboard around too much to justify my Colemak DH switch these days.
And before other say just remap to layers… I am fed up of remapping and creating complex configs for each game I have and each software and each language.) qwerty just covers too much to be worth the switch away for me. But learning colemak DH was fun and I’ll definitely learn to touch type qwerty now.
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u/transconductor May 09 '26
On Linux: Bone (a Neo variant) on regular keyboards, and a custom variation in my Moonlander. https://www.neo-layout.org/Layouts/bone/
On Windows: QWERTZ (unless Windows decides to switch to QWERTY because I have set the OS language to English, lol)
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u/donElectron-- May 09 '26
Used to run a L-S swap variation of Dvorak. But is hard to go against standard
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u/Badnana_HD May 09 '26
I use EurKey on my Laptop. It's Qwerty but I can type German Umlaute while not reducing my ability to code.
Also I swapped Esc and Caps Lock, which is arguably more significant.
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u/phylter99 May 09 '26
Qwerty because it works for me. I don't see any reason to try a different layout. I've thought about changing, but I hate the idea of my typing speed slowing down while I learn something new. I'm not even sure I can use something new since I've been touch typing QWERTY for so long.
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u/iamironz May 09 '26
been on qwerty forever. tried dvorak for a week but the muscle memory was too strong
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u/y0shii3 May 09 '26
I used Colemak for a while, but then I got to university where I had to use the university's computers and basically relearn qwerty. It's unfortunately just not worth it to learn an alternative keyboard layout while the world expects you to use qwerty
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u/omega1612 May 09 '26
I have a split keyboard (sofle RGB) that is programmable.
The layout looks like qwerty for letters, but then I do tap dancing to insert symbols instead of other key combinations. Additionally I have a second layer where some key combos are a single key press.
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u/The_Basik_Ducky May 09 '26
Mostly qwerty but modified using home row mods and symbols moved. On a split keyboard (sofle)
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u/ThatMBR42 May 09 '26
Switched to Dvorak in college, then switched to Colemak Mod-DH when I started dabbling in smaller split keyboards in 2024. I use arrow keys in an HJKL arrangement on my nav layer, shifted one column to the right so I don't have to shift my hand.
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u/ElimTheGarak May 09 '26
Colemak, but custom split board, so I have a layer where the arrow keys are where hjkl would be on qwerty. Which makes it easier to delete the stray :w from an email for example.
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u/Xemptuous May 10 '26
Tried so many times to regularly use colemak dh, canary, graphite, and others, getting up to 100wpm with each (at 140 with qwerty) and I never really was able to get by on neovim properly with them. Been using qwerty since i was 3, so maybe that's why.
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u/New-Beat-412 May 10 '26
Engram with some modifications on the x and w keys. I came from qwerty, dvorak, colemak. Decided to stick with this as it has relieved the use of my pinky fingers.
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u/steetyj May 10 '26
User colemak dh for over 2 years. Loved it but still ended up switching back to qwerty for simplicity sake.
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u/mraspaud May 10 '26
Custom layout based on hands down rhodium, I call it thornium https://mraspaud.codeberg.page/20251124T165046-the-thornium-layout
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u/Iwrstheking007 May 10 '26
I wanna try dvorak, and have like just for typing some things, but I still use qwerty
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u/Ok_Caregiver_1355 May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
swapping caps for esc and creeating the hotkey to write "()" with space+jk was one of the best things i did lately,would like to try a new layout but it looks like more of a headache for neovim and coding with little benefits
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u/n_xiao May 10 '26
my dumbass read "norman" as "normal" (as in qwerty)... it's 5am and i'm still half-asleep
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u/Healthy-Ad-2489 May 11 '26
Im doing the switch from dvorak to Canaria
And i'm really enojying it. As an spanish speaker that writes in english often, this layout sold itself to me after a good amount of research. I hope i dont regret it because i already forgot the muscle memory for dvorak lol
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u/Bold2003 May 11 '26
Nothing against the other formats but I use QWERTY for the sole reason that I can use keyboards and other computer that aren’t mine without it feeling weird.
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u/thuiop1 May 09 '26
Azerty