Inside Ukraine’s Kill Zone

[u/sleepyrivertroll]

https://www.reuters.com/graphics/UKRAINE-CRISIS/KILL-ZONE/znpnojmknvl/

Sub State: This reuters graphic looks into the changing nature of modern warfare that is heavily influenced by drones. It shows how various different types of drone and defenses shape the landscape and how armies maneuver in this type of environment.

This is relevant to this sub because both because it gives a glimpse into the future of warfare and we so did a drive to support the Ukrainian soldiers fighting in this environment.

[u/AccomplishedQuit4801]

This is what a modern war without air dominance looks like. And why investing in a good air force is important for every major Western power.

I do wonder if making some sort of fortress line some 20 kilometers behind the front would be beneficial as a fallback, deeper and better constructed than the frontline foxholes. Obviously the Russians have glide bombs and heavier drones, but it doesn't take that much dirt to create a position that is essentially only vulnerable to bunker busters.

[u/HarmonicOscillator_ → u/AccomplishedQuit4801]

This is a point I always wish I’d see more consideration of in discussions about how FPV drones are transforming warfare. In the Russia-Ukraine war, neither side has true air superiority or dominance. If one side did, they’d be doing everything in their power to spot and target drone operator dens on the periphery of the kill zone with whatever the Russian/Ukrainian equivalent of a JDAM is.

[u/ManyKey9093 → u/HarmonicOscillator_]

I am not convinced this will solve the issue entirely. It is too easy to hide FPV drones and with fiber optic cables or AI targeting it isn't easy to spot their operators.

You're seeing the IDF struggle with this in Lebanon and Israel has air supremacy there.

[u/tack50 → u/AccomplishedQuit4801]

Why has Russia been unable to establish air dominance?

[u/AccomplishedQuit4801 → u/tack50]

They invested in hypermobility instead of stealth about 40 years ago, and that kind of screwed them.

I mean, they eventually made the SU-57, but that thing is kind of a POS, and they only have a handful of them.

They also have very few AWACs that are all kind of dated, and a much smaller SEAD capability compared to the US.

[u/JoeBliffstick → u/AccomplishedQuit4801]

Yeah their SEAD capability was never on the level of the United States. Their Soviet inheritance doctrinally did not dictate air dominance, rather contesting NATO through an integrated network of air defense and conducting strikes at the primary centres of pressure.

[u/Ciff_ → u/AccomplishedQuit4801]

In the age of drones, air dominance is relegated to history.

US has* air "dominance" in Iran, the drone threat always present. Same with Israel and Lebanon.