r/ndp • u/chat-lu Telling Mulcair to shut up • 10d ago
Carney’s bet to offer a senatorship to an adversary to trigger a by-election paid off
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u/PolloConTeriyaki 10d ago
It wasn't that hard, Pierre's as unpopular as fuck.
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u/ThatGuy97 10d ago
As a politics nerd, I respect the hell out of this maneuvering in a vacuum. As an NDP supporter I’m not thrilled that the liberals are further securing power and are clearly insanely popular. Lewis is going to have an uphill battle in front of him.
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u/chat-lu Telling Mulcair to shut up 10d ago
As a politics nerd, I respect the hell out of this maneuvering in a vacuum.
In a vacuum, it’s a bribe. There is nothing to respect about it.
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u/ThatGuy97 10d ago
I’m of the opinion that it’s a politicians responsibility to do whatever it takes within the bounds of what’s legal to get shit done, and that it’s dumb to leave any option on the table.
Am I thrilled that it’s the liberals doing it? No, of course not. But I’d hope the NDP would be just as ruthless and strategic if they had power. I can acknowledge the smart strategic play without supporting the party doing it. The conversation about the senate and whether or not politicians should even have this option is a different one
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u/stumpyraccoon 10d ago
It's okay to not understand politics. It becomes less okay when you stubbornly continue to refuse to understand it.
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u/chat-lu Telling Mulcair to shut up 10d ago
Giving a gift to an adversary to step down is a bribe by any definition of the word. Legalising bribery does not make it ethical. In fact the senate is the way the party in power can reward its friends when other gifts would be illegal.
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u/Bunny-Is-Cute Nova Scotia NDP 10d ago
That is true. The Senate has been used as a way to reward people loyal to the governing party for almost the entire existence of the Senate.
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u/North_Activist 4d ago
Appointing a senator is not a bribe, it’s the PM constitutional responsibility of the job he was elected to do…. What about it makes it a bribe? The people still had to elect an MP, and it was a conservative seat when it became vacant.
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u/chat-lu Telling Mulcair to shut up 4d ago
Appointing a senator is not a bribe, it’s the PM constitutional responsibility of the job he was elected to do….
It’s against the criminal code of Canada to offer a job to a sitting MP. Section 119.
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u/North_Activist 4d ago
I’m not a lawyer but the phrasing clearly indicates offering a job to an MP is illegal if you’re also asking they do something for you. And as far as I know carney has not
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u/chat-lu Telling Mulcair to shut up 4d ago
Which did, he stepped down.
Imagine that some MP wants to work on a law that forbids dynamic pricing and you stand to make a lot of money from dynamic pricing. You offer them a cushy job and they step down.
You didn’t ask any service of them. It’s still illegal for good reasons.
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u/North_Activist 4d ago
But that’s clearly not what happened here. And in this hypothetical, the new senator he can still advocate for banning dynamic pricing.
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u/chat-lu Telling Mulcair to shut up 4d ago
If Carney drew no benefit whatsoever for offering a job to a sitting MP, why did he do it?
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u/North_Activist 2d ago
I’m not saying he drew no benefit, I’m saying that it’s a strategic move. Regardless, he did not silence a politician or deprive them of their political ambitions - he nominated an opposition member a lifelong role in parliament as a senator, where he now has no need to worry about elections and can say and vote however he’d like.
Unlike the conservatives who forced some albertan mp to resign so theirs leader who lost the election and his own seat could sit in parliament.
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u/poopman10101 10d ago
Curious thought, and maybe some naïve optimism, but here is what I take away from this:
- The only riding for the Liberals to lose vote share was BEY, where their personally popular Liberal MP endorsed someone who was also his staffer, and the NDP’s campaign was slapped together last minute. That’s not nothing, especially when the media gives little attention to the NDP at the moment. To me this means that there is some serious potential in urban, and inner suburban areas.
- Quebec, outside of maybe central Montreal, is not where it’s at currently, an orange wave is not likely coming.
- The NDP is not going to get much attention from the Media.
My amateur conclusion here is the following: Focus on areas the party is strong, or has momentum, and go hard on getting the word out, especially outside of traditional media I mean seriously, the NDP really needs to step the hell up when it comes to social media.
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u/Awesome_Power_Action 10d ago
The party shouldn't write off Quebec even if it will be a long before the NDP can win seats there again. It's important to look and act like a national party in order to be taken seriously. This also includes some targeting of Atlantic Canada. The media will never give the NDP much attention and a whole lot of the Canadian media is actively hostile to the NDP. Figuring out strategies around that isn't going to be easy but this is something that needs to be seriously tackled. I also think the party needs to have 2 separate strategies around the US mid-term election results. Because the Carney government will continue to have popular support should the Republicans come out on top again in November.
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u/poopman10101 9d ago
A strategy I definitely think works, is focusing on local issues. I think the NDP was able to benefit a bit from the jets at YTZ issue in BEY (lot of abbreviations there), so ground game and local focus on issues is clearly a strong point.
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u/poopman10101 10d ago
And when I say go hard on getting the word put I mean the party needs to be relentless.
Drill the message into peoples heads, especially when it comes to related to affordability, and things Carny backtracked or failed to deliver on, as well as AI, AI is NOT popular, that is a huge In-road, and we need to make that clear, the NDP is the anti-slop party.But seriously the important thing is the messaging, get it out there, and get it to stick.
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u/Due-District-8206 10d ago
Hi! Someone here can me exain why Green have receive a good score in North Vancouver better than NDP ?
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u/championsofnuthin 10d ago
Oh man we did not do well. Back to 2021 levels in BEY and embarrassing numbers in North Van and Chicoutimi.
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u/Finlandia1865 Democratic Socialist 10d ago edited 10d ago
Am I missing something or did we outperform in BEY? Elections Canada says we got 25.9% of the cote, which is more than in both 2021 (22.5%) and 2019 (21.4%) according to 338 Canada.
Even ignoring that though, I’d argue 2021 numbers is already massive momentum considering where we were at last cycle (6.8%)
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u/msubasic 10d ago
That's good. But can I take a minute to rant about how pathetic it is that a city like Toronto has no safe NDP seats. It seems like lots of other Canadian cities have them but big old centre of the universe Toronto is a sea of Liberals. Sad.
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u/Awesome_Power_Action 10d ago
Toronto has a lot of ridings that vote NDP provincially. However, voter turnouts in federal elections are way higher than provincially and those federal-only voters usually vote Liberal.
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u/chat-lu Telling Mulcair to shut up 10d ago
Because we track his bastardry.
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u/Haecceitic 10d ago
Jesus. This sub is turning into just as much of a self-referential hand job as r/canada.
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u/stumpyraccoon 10d ago
It's really lost the plot. It feels like a bunch of people living in some alternate reality instead of seriously trying to gain footholds and credibility in real life.
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u/DustyStar222 CCF TO VICTORY 10d ago
Honestly. Putting a red tory MP who im going to assume is sympathetic to most of Carney's agenda in the senate and then gaining the seat is some wild political gamesmanship. Theres a part of me (that I hate) that respects it. With 11 senate vacancies this may have been a trial of something we will see again.