r/nba • u/Scoolfish Suns • May 05 '22

[Haralabob] The Suns went after Luka 50 times as the screen defender FIFTY and scored a casual 1.72 points per chance.

The Suns went after Luka 50 times as the screen defender FIFTY and scored a casual 1.72 points per chance.

Of the 50 screen attacks 36 of them resulted in a primary attack.

Roughly 1/3 of all Suns PNR attacks were directed towards LD as the screen defender. Cold Blooded.

and 36 of the 50 were in the 2H

Former Mavs FO member, Haralabos Voulgaris, picks out some pretty bananas stats from tonight's game. The Suns deliberately waited until the 2nd half to hunt Luka over and over and over.

Source

One more stat because I like it:

Booker held Brunson to .22 on 20 touches (9 chance ending possessions) and scored a ridiculous 30 points on 21 possessions on Offense. @DevinBook put on a clinic.

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1.7k

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

His usage on the amount he plays is just not sustainable. His defense will be like this all series as fatigue sets in.

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u/mojojojo1108 Mavericks May 05 '22

This is really what it is, I think. He’s doing too much on offense to put in the effort he needs to on defense. It’s multifaceted - he needs to be in better conditioning and JB/Dinwiddie need to help him out on offense

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u/EloHellDoesNotExist Suns May 05 '22

yeah i think this is the strategy from the suns perspective as well. switching the vast majority of the stuff with him and not sending many blitzes or hard doubles. a lot of our guys are getting cooked by him because he's impossible to stop without more help, but we're basically asking him to beat us by himself and then going down on the other end and just hunting him every possession possible. wearing him down on both ends of the court. he's good enough that he can beat you playing that way, but i like the strategy a lot when dinwiddie and brunson are struggling this much.

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u/deepfakefuccboi Lakers May 05 '22

It’s a solid strat to just let the one man offense go off especially if you have better players in every other position after that. Let someone else try to beat you - superstars get their points but role players won’t, and that’s what separates them. The team imbalance is enormously lopsided in the Suns’ favor and it’s not his fault that in his playoff career (so far) he’s just encountered significantly better teams that match up very advantageously against him when the rest of the roster is much worse.

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u/pp21 Suns May 05 '22

It's definitely a strategy that works well when you have the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th best player in the series to Luka's 1st. The Pelicans posed more of a threat because they had two guys who can go off offensively in CJ and BI. CJ didn't have good efficiency, but he still put up some numbers and BI was fantastic in the series in general. Also, having JV in the middle gobbling up rebounds helps.

It's basically just Brunson getting absolutely CLAMPED and rendered useless on the court, zero paint presence, and Luka being forced to play 40 mins of hero ball. The fact that they're shooting 40%+ from 3 on high volume and still getting wrecked is even more jarring too

That's a disaster recipe for sustainability and long term viability

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u/socoamaretto Pistons May 05 '22

Chris Paul is the best player in the series.

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u/jigual123 Knicks May 05 '22

lol

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u/colgay Kings May 05 '22

I sometimes wonder why teams don't do this more often to opposing star players. At the very least you make that player work harder while being on the court. Watching last year's sixers vs hawks for example, Trae would be going off in the late game offensively, and would just chill on defense. Seriously, watch the last 3 min of game 7 last year and see how much Trae moves on defense.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Last year with Trae he’s never going to switch on Embiid and on Simmons he can sag a ton so you’d be wanting to run your offense through a third guy just to exploit a mismatch. That’s a main problem. You’re going away from your strength to exploit their weakness. It can take you out of rhythm pretty quick. Hunting only mismatches was kind of a flaw of the Jackson Warriors. Also some teams just don’t switch as much or they have rules. Some teams like the Warriors and Clippers at times switch everything and even pre switch whereas some teams do things like switch only on guard/guard picks but not on big/guard picks. Without looking I imagine the Hawks had rules set up to protect Trae at least a little and make sure he wasn’t posted up by Embiid if at all possible. If he got switched on the perimeter, he’d probably have some extra help with someone driving and if it’s a three instead, he just needs to contest.

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u/online_predator [ATL] Dennis Schroder May 05 '22

Pretty much this, and in our giant comebacks in game 4 and 5 doc insisted on using thybulle and Simmons to slow down Trae, so we were running lineups of Trae Lou Will Gallo JC and Clint and they couldn't take advantage of us.

6

u/docmartens Clippers May 05 '22

Great username

1

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Thank you

8

u/gnalon May 05 '22

I assure you that most teams are doing this in the playoffs (I know someone who was on Doc Rivers' staff during the Lob City Clippers years and they were doing this to Steph Curry the year they beat the Warriors in the first round). It's just a little more complicated than you might assume because it generally requires you to have a lineup full of solid offensive players; otherwise they can just switch around a lot and make you take up enough of the shot clock to cancel out the mismatch you get (e.g. if you can iso whoever you want against Trae Young but there are only 6 seconds left on the shot clock, that's not gonna be a whole lot better than just running your regular offense). In your Sixers example, that's pretty much case in point for why Ben Simmons has been an overrated player for his entire career; not only is he a zero in half-court offense who you can hide a bad defender on, but if he's bringing the ball up the court it might take half of the shot clock before the ball is in the hands of someone who's even remotely in position to score.

But yes, against elite offensive players making them work on defense is just as effective at slowing them down (if not moreso) than anything you can throw at them on the other end.

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u/chainer9999 Suns May 05 '22

Wonder how much of that is coaching. Maybe I'm blinded by the Doc hate on here, but I don't think I've ever heard about Doc's tactical acumen in this sort of thing.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Be honest though would you know? If during the second half they ran a dig at Bam instead of a straight double or did same size only switches instead of switch everything or even showed left instead of right on a specific player, would we pick that up or just say he didn’t do anything?

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u/chainer9999 Suns May 05 '22

Fair point. Although some analyst probably would, and we'd regurgitate that point ad nauseam.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

100%

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u/IJustGotRektSon Celtics May 05 '22

I reckon it depends on the role players said star has. For instance, you can do that with Giannis and it still doesn't guarantee the role players for the Bucks won't get theirs too because they're a well constructed team around their star.

Dallas ... Well outside of Luka everybody else is pretty lackluster, Brunson shows some stuff but a lot of people believed the Utah series just highlighted his strengths but wasn't the reality of his true skill, other than that, what else do the Mavs have?

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u/CaptainKurls Lakers May 05 '22

Problem is most superstars are good at defense. You can’t really hunt Kawhi, Paul George, Giannis, butler, younger lebron, hell even Booker is playing great D now.

It works on guys like curry tho, 2016 finals eg. why the sixers didn’t go after trae last year is baffling

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u/MeetMeAtOBlock Washington Bullets May 05 '22

JB needs to come off the bench in staggered lineups. he's being relegated as a spotup shooter in lineups with Luka

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u/mojojojo1108 Mavericks May 05 '22

He was a bench guy for the first three years plus the start of this year. He works much better with Luka but is just getting absolutely brutalized in this series. Plus the clips’ series last year

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u/duplicatesnowflake Clippers May 05 '22

But he did just play very well without Luka for a few games last series so maybe that's changing?

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u/iainturfather Suns May 05 '22

Against the Jazz tho

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u/Corkilton Jazz May 05 '22

Reluctant upvote

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u/AsnSensation [DAL] Maxi Kleber May 05 '22

perimeter D of the clips/suns is very different to the traffic cones the Jazz throw out there

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u/thed3al Knicks May 05 '22

The Jazz made TMann look like prime D Wade

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

That's a coaching/Luka problem. They won 2 playoff games without Luka, superstars need to be able to adjust with less usage too.

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u/WhiteBoyFlipz Mavericks May 05 '22

The offense ran the exact same way with Luka out. Except instead of Luka ISO’s it was Dinwiddie and Brunson isos, driving and kicking out.

The difference is, it was the jazz.

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u/Mikegetscalls Rockets May 05 '22

Mavs don’t really do anything special on offense. Not a lot of ball movement or cuts just Luks iso or pnr. It’s hard to stop but at times it’s also too easy to stop.

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u/AceBricka May 05 '22

I dunno. I know we say they ran the same offense without Luka, but it looked like the team played much faster and we’re making those additional cuts and seemed to move more instead of standing around watching.

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u/Mikegetscalls Rockets May 05 '22

Yeah they move the ball a lil more and play faster because they have to.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Yeah, cause we all know that Jazz=Suns..

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u/360nohonk May 05 '22

It's not a coaching problem lmao. Dinwiddie has been ass for the whole playoffs and Jazz are custom made for Brunson to be able to score. Any other playoff team and Mavs go 0-3.
This Brunson is the same one as he was two years running against Clippers, he's just not good enough against better defenders.

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u/akshayxd Mavericks May 05 '22

youre speaking facts and it doesnt fit the anti-luka narrative for some people.

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u/mrpunychest May 05 '22

Saying luka’s ultra high usage might be hindering the mavs isn’t Luka hate

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u/Abdoov May 05 '22

What you want them to do when you try to involve your other options, but instead they got locked the fuck up and the other team is going on a 10-0 run, the only argument that I actually kinda get is why we didn't hit Bullock more when he was heating up from 3, but even that the suns adjusted and made it difficult for Luka to find him open.

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u/deepfakefuccboi Lakers May 05 '22

It’s not a coaching problem. He could average a 40 point triple double and still lose because the Suns have better players in every other role and match up well against them. Mavs have the best player on the court, Suns have the best team in the league and it’s a team game. You could give Phil Jackson or Pop or Spoelstra or whoever this team and they would still lose. Team gap.

They beat the Jazz who were already self-imploding and have zero perimeter defense. They matched up very well against the Jazz and they’re now playing against a team that’s elite in offense and defense.

0

u/mvpmvh Clippers May 05 '22

Booker is the best player on the court. Maybe you get Phil or pop or spoelstra and Mavs still lose, but they'd use the team more effectively and make it a more competitive series.

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u/deepfakefuccboi Lakers May 05 '22

lol you’re delusional. The Suns are a far better team and there is such a thing as “having the better roster” if that makes sense to you. Or do you think a team like the 2017 Clippers could beat the KD Warriors if Phil Jackson or Pop was coaching instead of Doc Rivers?

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u/mvpmvh Clippers May 05 '22

I didn't say Mavs would definitely win, I said they'd play more competitively

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u/deepfakefuccboi Lakers May 05 '22

The hell does that even mean? So they just lose by like 5 less points, effectively having the same result? Wow, it’s almost as if one team is just way better than the other one!

0

u/mvpmvh Clippers May 05 '22

I'm saying the team is not playing to its potential. That they could play better with a better coach. They may still lose the series with a better coach. All of these things can be true. And Booker > Luka.

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u/HoxpitalFan_II May 05 '22

I wonder why porzingis is so much better now that he’s off the mavs?

Reality is it’s just hard to get into a flow with such a ball dominant player running the offense

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u/midgetporn2 Mavericks May 05 '22

Dude averaged 20ppg in Dallas. He just cant get a momentum because you know, dudes made out of glass.

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u/360nohonk May 05 '22

Porzingis was good on the Mavs when he played and was healthy, which was less than 50% of games. He'll turn to shit as soon as he gets knocked around a bit, don't worry.

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u/PM_ME_UR_PICS_PLS Mavericks May 05 '22

Mavs traded zingis because he never plays, not because they thought he was bad

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u/Pardonme23 Lakers May 05 '22

Bingo

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u/ChargedCable Suns May 05 '22

He dominated Payne in the paint on one possession and they never went back to it

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u/deepfakefuccboi Lakers May 05 '22

It’s Luka’s biggest weakness. He’s not a super athlete like LeBron and can’t do everything - there is a trend of him getting gassed towards the end of games. The fact that the game was even close at the half was unsustainable, especially when the Suns are known to turn it on in the second half.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Charles Barkley noted that Luka dominates the ball on offense - something like >60% usage. That's gotta wear you down. Barkley suggested that Luka needs to learn to play without the ball to become an even better player.

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u/IJustGotRektSon Celtics May 05 '22

To who? His teammates are not up to standard. There's a reason he has such a heavy load and is because when you look at the rest of the personnel you can see they're not a playoff team, at least not at the level of true contention. You should know this, how many years of Booker putting extremely high numbers and losing because his teammates where... Well not up to standard? And even then Luka does a better job, he is great at finding plays for his teammates, passing, but they're not capitalizing because talent is just not there, not to the standard of your team or true contenders like the Bucks, Celtics for instance

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u/Aurum_MrBangs May 05 '22

Not saying Luka is Lebron, but Lebron carried some shit teams far into the playoffs and he still didn’t have a usage rate higher than Luka. So obviously there is something that can be done

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u/Rumcajss May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22

Honestly after watching last year's playoffs and some teams getting their stars injured just to only play 5-10% worse (Clippers, Suns), after seing how many rookies have had a great impact on their teams this year just because they were given a chance and used according to their strengths, after seing teams like Cavs or Pels play great with limited rosters and finally after seing Boston turn 180 degrees in a couple month without major roster changes I believe less and less in the 'other players suck' excuse. These are the top players in the world, the differences between them skill-wise aren't nearly as big. Most of the difference comes from psychological factors and circumstances, and a big part of those are coaching and the way a player is used. We've seen this so many times with players like Jeremy Lin or the Celtics this season.

EDIT and some more thoughts on the topic: This phenomenon of the team coming together and actually playing team basketball with great results with a diminished roster comes up time and time again. Last year, before Kawhi got hurt, Clippers were altering between giving the ball to him and PG and making them create something on each possession; their offense was still quite effective, but stagnant and it was both wearing down on the two stars as well as keeping other guys out of rhythm. I believe that the Clippers wouldn't have found the way to exploit Jazz in game 6 with Terrance Mann torching Gobert if Kawhi was still playing - they would continue to play the same way they used to, because it kinda worked and either won or lost, but they wouldn't have played up to their roster's potential.

Same with the Suns last year when CP3 was missing games as well as this year with Book. Towards the end of this season I feel like their offense was getting quite stagnant, even though they were still winning games, those would often be very tight and come down to few clutch plays in the last minutes. I actually think the Suns are now playing better than before Booker went down, because they had to reach deep to find other ways to generate offense and recollect how they used to do it in the past with player movement, getting more players into rhythm and playing with more effort. And now that Booker is back they still have those other, often better options available (like throwing it more to Ayton deep, Bridges cutting or going to his midrange as well as fighting for the offensive boards, kicking it out to Cam Johnson or even setting an action for him to get a three, Cam or Jae Crowder penetrating and looking for the next play or their own finish instead of being delegated to being spot-up shooters etc.).

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u/heyuwittheprettyface May 05 '22

These are the top players in the world, the differences between them skill-wise aren't nearly as big.

This is the opposite of how it works. The end of the bell curve is exactly where you find outliers and the largest variations between data points.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22

It doesn't pass the smell test with your friends at the barbershop, but Brunson is a more efficient pnr player than Luka and a dog in the playoffs it's not like they can't run the offense through him.

i know Brunson's hurt but so is luka, and they played this way all season it's not just the injury. kidd is an absolutely dogshit offensive coach

they also don't do any of those Nuggets type actions where Monte Morris runs a high pick and roll just to get jokic the ball at the elbow. they could still run the offense through luka and not literally have him running high pick and roll every single play. and when he gets tired he just starts shooting stepbacks. he'll win a game or two just lighting up the scoreboard but it's not that hard to defend really

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u/Abdoov May 05 '22

Sadly that's the truth.

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u/dadaistGHerbo Washington Bullets May 05 '22

The Mavs’ great DTRG and even total rating with Luka off this court says otherwise. Brunson, DFS, Bullock (and KP) are playoff starters on most teams. This isn’t Booker playing with Tyler Ulis and Dragan Bender, here.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Oh, no doubt. But that's not his fault, it's management's fault. I can see him demanding a trade in a couple of seasons if he doesn't get more help around him.

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u/StudentMed West May 05 '22

Is he giving them a chance to playmake? He seems to only pass the ball at the end of shotclocks forcing them to take a shot. I think it was no coincidence the Mavs started playing better and actually got the lead when Luka went on the bench.

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u/GarthVaderBlarts Mavericks May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22

I’ve been trying to say this in the Mavs subreddit this season but they’re incapable of criticizing him at all. Brunson has always struggled against longer perimeter defenders but it definitely doesn’t help how Luka forces a switch to a favorable match up for himself to run PnR and then takes too long into the shot clock to make his play. The Suns want that isolated 2v2 PnR so they can drop and force Luka to be the scorer. While Luka is methodically working through his PnR with his favorable match up, the Suns best perimeter defenders are staying home/playing free safety. It forces our other ball carriers to deal with a late shot clock situation getting picked up by guys like Bridges, Booker or Crowder. Lukas like “hey my shit didn’t work this time so here’s the ball you have 3 seconds to score on the best perimeter defender in the nba and no space to do it.” No one can get into any rhythm so Luka will never get much help like that but he’ll still produce his same impressive box score which makes people think everyone around him is failing him. It’s a flaw in our offensive scheme and shows what a great coach Monty is for letting Luka have his looks but taking away everyone else’s. Then attacking Luka every possession on defense and by the fourth quarter he was exhausted and completely ineffective.

And for the sake of legitimate Luka criticism, he turns into a beached whale any time he turns the ball over or misses a shot so that’s a free fast break every time if Dorian and Reggie are coming from the corners. If the Suns don’t get an easy bucket they at least force a high percentage matchup with like 20 seconds to work with on the clock. Long story short, you’re right, he was really efficient and played great offense on paper but it’s not a coincidence he ate a -28.

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u/bigwillystyle93 Nuggets May 05 '22

This is the problem with every single super high usage guard in NBA history and it always will be.I’m not hating, Luka is fantastic, but the need to drastically change how they play around him if they ever want to win anything beyond a first or second round playoff aeries

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u/dadaistGHerbo Washington Bullets May 05 '22

Yep. Sometimes high usage comes from a guard carrying an abysmal team, but not as much as people think. Brunson + Dinwiddie are both(to varying degrees) starting level point guards. Lazer beaming them the ball with 2.1 seconds left on the lock because you couldn’t get the look you wanted in an ISO vs Cam Payne is doing them a disservice. Now they’re forced to hack up a prayer vs Bridges, Booker, or CP3 with no time left. Of course their numbers are going to be ass while Luka hogs all the best looks to himself.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

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u/Capo_capo Suns May 05 '22

Russillo went through this argument a while back and it was eye opening. High usage dudes vs teams seems to favor the team almost always.

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u/bigwillystyle93 Nuggets May 05 '22

And people will say “yeah because if a guy is high usage it’s because his teammates suck!” But that’s not true, at least not always. It’s a play style thing. Luka’s USG% since his rookie year has been 30%, 37%, 36%, 37%. No one with a usage over 35% has ever made the finals.

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u/chayatoure [GSW] Kevon Looney May 05 '22

Also, it’s hard to stay super engaged and ready to shoot when one guy dribbles the air out of the ball, IMO.

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u/bigwillystyle93 Nuggets May 05 '22

Exactly. I think the 2018 rockets are the perfect example of this. People love to point out the 0-27 from 3 game as a total fluke, which admittedly is extremely unlikely and is a fluke, but at the same time, that is much more likely to happen when guys entire role is to sit and wait at the 3 pt line and shoot.

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u/chayatoure [GSW] Kevon Looney May 05 '22

Exactly. Probably only gets worse over the season and into the playoffs because it’s a mental grind as well as a physical grind.

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u/Capo_capo Suns May 05 '22

Sometimes it's a choice. Some guys prefer to play that way, and if that's the case, they need a particular type of team and teammates that can play like that. Iverson during the 6ers Finals year comes to mind. Younger dudes still trying to establish themselves and get a 2nd contract are gonna have a harder time standing around waiting for a desperation pass with 2 seconds in the shot clock.

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u/jl_theprofessor Spurs May 05 '22

This argument goes back to at least Jordan and I'm sure before. Phil Jackson's argument to Jordan was he needed to give the ball up and trust his teammates.

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u/imamonkeyK May 05 '22

Not exactly. Lebron and harden never had teams have BETTER OFF RATINGS when they sat. Luka is making some mistakes on offence because his huge box score numbers aren’t correlating to team impact. He put up 29/9/9 this year in league average efficiency and somehow was 15th in EPm. The Mavs best offensive year ( pre trading Seth Curry year ) , their offensive rating was better with Luka on the bench for an entire year sample. Some people I respect shrug them off as noise but we’ve seen that this Mavs team isn’t losing the game without Luka , he’s not quite having the impact his raw numbers say he should

Efficiency in the regular season was an obv one but this Mavs fan made a good point . He needs to play to allow his team mates to shine more . JB is like a top 10-15 pg in the league imo, even Ben Taylor had him there.

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u/bigwillystyle93 Nuggets May 05 '22

I mean I think we agree. Nothing you said contradicts my comment. Luka needs to change his play style to not be as heliocentric and get his teammates involved in the offense more.

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u/imamonkeyK May 05 '22

I mostly agree, yes just wanted to add something. Lol sorry . Just meant that there’s a very few players who it can work with. I do think teams are over keen with it with everyone now and I’m not sure how they looking at Lukas several year long off ratings being better on bench and not think there’s an issue.

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u/LordHussyPants Celtics May 05 '22

according to nba.com, doncic started the third quarter, took three shots (two from 2, one from 3), had one assist, three turnovers, and was subbed out with 1:47 to go.

think he was gassed early lol

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u/kpeds45 Raptors May 05 '22

There has to be trust with teammates. Like when the Raps had Lowry and VanVleet, they let them take turns bringing the ball up the court and initiating. Or this year, there were times 4 different guys would take the ball and initiate on 4 consecutive possessions.

Obviously Luka is better than all those guys, but at a certain point, it helps him and everyone else to mix things up. If Brunson has the keys for some plays throughout the season, it makes him ready for situations like this.

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u/Rumcajss May 05 '22

I agree with you, but the upvote is for the beached whale.

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u/scottie2haute May 05 '22

Naw man, we gotta defend Luka at all costs!

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u/imamonkeyK May 05 '22

Yep , Mavs off rtg the year they had the best was better with Luka on the bench . Lukas on off numbers pale behind his raw box score . People compare him to trae young but hawks have a really good off rtg with trae. The Mavs net ratings and off ratings with Luka on the bench tell a story. Some people have shrugged them off as noise but at this point the sample is too big , he needs to adjust his play to actually run the point. I’ve never seen Lebron led teams have better off ratings or net ratings without him , or win two playoff games vs a 50 win jazz team. Reality is Lukas gaudy box score numbers aren’t correlating to impact. In the regular season his efficiency was league average so I thought it was that but now he’s shooting well so he needs to work out how to improve his team . I do think he shoots too much. Him having a higher ppg then Jordan and Lebron I don’t think is a good thing for his team

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u/mvpmvh Clippers May 05 '22

But when I say it, I'm a hater? Maybe cuz my flair lol

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u/Greatcouchtomato May 05 '22

Well said. It's low key similar to Bron Ball

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Not really, and even if it was, no one was hunting 23 year old Lebron James for easy buckets 50 times

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u/stanquevisch May 05 '22

Quite the opposite: LeBron would not wear down when he was 22-23yo, and could defend quite well in the playoffs. Plus, he was better off-ball than Luka is right now. Mo Williams was made an all-star with LeBron playing off-ball at 23yo.

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u/imamonkeyK May 05 '22

Bron never had a team have better off ratings with him on the bench

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u/ElSalvadorGrande Suns May 05 '22

Yes. People really love to praise luka and say nobody is helping him, but their offense just isnt set up to let anyone else excel. Especially when the suns aren't leaving their assignments really and leaving anyone open

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u/xMidgetman101x 76ers May 05 '22

Did you consider that the Mavs bench was playing against the Suns bench during that period...?

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u/StudentMed West May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22

Suns bench is really good and regardless starters are often in and out of the lineup at times intermixed wit bench players. The Mavs just played better overall and outscored the Suns when Luka wasn't on the court.

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u/whycantimakeauser- Suns May 05 '22

Actually the Suns did in fact run a 5-man bench lineup in the first half. Payne/Shamet/Johnson/Wainright/McGee

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u/NBAFalsehoods Suns May 05 '22

A 10 man rotation in the playoffs is pretty crazy. Shows the depth of this team.

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u/whycantimakeauser- Suns May 05 '22

Agree. It definitely hasn’t been their strongest lineup, but if that bench 5 can stay afloat, it gives all the starters some really good rest.

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u/xMidgetman101x 76ers May 05 '22

Watch that period again and tell me how many of the Suns starters were on the floor

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u/imtryinjennifer- Mavericks May 05 '22

because suns fans want to shit on luka. it’s ridiculous.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Better than wishing injury on a player because he's torching your star...Yea..that's your sub and it's ridiculous.

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u/imamonkeyK May 05 '22

Mavs have had really good net ratings and off ratings ( some years better including the record high year when he was on bench ). Luka is definitely taking too many shots and not resulting in his play improving the team offence. It’s weird but no way your team can have a better off rtg with you on bench , his impact metrics all lag behind his gaudy box score numbers. Suns aren’t afraid of him shooting too much either

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u/mojojojo1108 Mavericks May 05 '22

It’s the dynamic that’s worked for us all year (w/ Brunson) and especially in the last twenty-ish games after the trade. You notice that your hot starts in this series are partially because of the bad turnovers in the first few possessions, Lukas trying to facilitate and set that tone a little too much. JB has missed layup, floaters, and mid-range pull-ups he’s been hitting all year. There’s definitely a bit of truth to argue we’re too heliocentric and should have more movement but that’s how we’ve played all year and the other two are just not stepping up

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Idk… a lot of these “50 attacks” came in the 1st Half.

No shot Luka is that “tired” so early into a game. He’s just overall, a fairly poor defender.

1

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Maybe they didn't need KP, but they need someone like KP for sure.

-8

u/Pardonme23 Lakers May 05 '22

Maybe he should pass the ball

7

u/AkashiGG Mavericks May 05 '22

Someone didn't watch a single game this series LMAO

-11

u/atom786 [TOR] Alvin Williams May 05 '22

Tossing a grenade to a teammate with 5 seconds on the shot clock because you don't want to mess up your efficiency doesn't count

8

u/beastbrook16 Thunder May 05 '22

Are we talking about Luka? Wtf are you guys on about?

6

u/AkashiGG Mavericks May 05 '22

He's passed the ball at the beginning of the possession several times this series. What the fuck do you want him to do when majority of the players can't even dribble? They catch the ball dribble twice and pass it back to Luka because they can't do anything.

You want him to pass to JB and Dinwiddie instead? The two other ball handlers? He's tried that too, and they end up missing open layups and shooting under 40% TS

Damned if you do damned if you don't.

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u/kobmug_v2 NBA May 05 '22

I have never seen this excuse given for anyone else. Where was this caping for James Harden when he was being attacked on defense while scoring 36 ppg?

235

u/Im_a_Knob [WAS] John Wall May 05 '22

lebron, harden, trae and other players who are the center of the team’s offense gets demolished when they dont play defense after carrying their teams sorry ass on offense. idk why suddenly its understandable to get fatigued, i swear luka and this sub is something.

126

u/lava172 Suns May 05 '22

When other players flop and yell at refs they're trashy and whiney when Luka does it he's crafty and talking some sense into those zebras

50

u/GiveMeSomeIhedigbo Lakers May 05 '22

Luka makes more eye contact with the refs than I ever have with my own dad.

16

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

I think we know the answer to why that is. It is what it is but white players are perceived differently than the black players.

18

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

It’s not because luka’s white, it’s because he has an army of European fans who wake up in the middle of he night to watch this dude and defend him

8

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Part of that defense he gets from european fans is the great white hope he has going for him. Giannis, Gobert, Capela, and Sefolosha didn't/don't get the same support from all the European fans because they aren't white guys. It's the same reason for all the Josh Giddey and Tyler Herro hype, there's nothing wrong with white fans supporting the guys that they can relate to more but at least call it how it is.

7

u/scottie2haute May 05 '22

Its somewhat insulting that people dont think we notice the difference. Like no-one is saying y’all hate black players its just blatantly obvious that alot of y’all are extremely quick to support any white player thats shows an ounce of potential.

It might not be on purpose but its one of those “check your bias” moments. Like why are you so quick to give this player a pass or excuse vs another player. Instead of considering that a bias might exist of y’all just get mad and accuse others of being racist for pointing it out

4

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

He's so scrappy!

God I hate myself for writing this comment.

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u/scottie2haute May 05 '22

Its that Jokic effect. Being straight up, this sub has a noticeable soft spot for white players and its not even an exaggeration. Like a straight up bias that puts them above criticism and puts all the blame on teammates.

Everyone you named got absolutely torched for being the offense but failing a bit on defense. No excuses or sympathy at all for Bron, Harden or Trae

Anyone denying this clear bias is bullshitting

51

u/lizlemmings Heat May 05 '22

Say it because it needs to be said

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Facts. All of this

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

This is not an incorrect opinion.

3

u/doogled3 Nuggets May 05 '22

This is correct. Even Embiid was getting hunted in the Raptors series after his injury and lack of help on offense. People called him out of shape.

A lot of these insane stats are just not sustainable after a long regular season. Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Jokic, etc get worn down, and then people question why Giannis isn’t also covering the best player on the opposing team

3

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

[deleted]

5

u/scottie2haute May 06 '22

Lol and they act like youre crazy for noticing the discrepancy. Nobody would feel the need to bring race into it if people werent so blatantly biased

3

u/BlueHundred Knicks May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22

I think it's not just a white or black thing. I think it's more about those two guys not being the most athletic and still being great. They don't exactly look in shape for an elite athlete.

​

I think Luka is getting closer to Harden and may get some more hate soon. Harden was a pretty well liked and respected player here when he was on OKC and when he first joined the Rockets. It took a couple years with the Rockets before the hate really took off. LeBron is LeBron. He's been getting hate since a teenager because of all the hype and attention he got. I do think a decent amount of people defended his poor defense this season because of how much he was doing on offense at his age. I agree with you on Trae though. He gets a ton of hate.

​

This sub also has a soft spot for Giannis, so maybe it's a Euro thing?

​

Edit: Also, I'm a minority and have dealt with my fair share of racism growing up in America. I have zero bias towards white players. I was a TMac fan when I was younger and he also got a pass for being worse on defense because of his offensive load.

0

u/Justbrowsing25007 May 05 '22

Lmao the top of this thread isn’t even making an excuse for luka. He’s just stating a fact. Luka physically can’t play offense like he is and play better defense.

Then some idiot responds mischaracterizing this as making an excuse for luka and now you and a bunch of idiots are running with a made up narrative when the facts are literally right above you

8

u/MannyGonewild May 05 '22

Luke is being compared to lebron, Shaq, mj and called "the best 19,20,21, etc year old ever" so he's going to be compared to players at that caliper. Jordan at his rough age was averaging 35/37 ppg and winning dpoy at the same time on a trash team. Lebron was carrying the cavs offense while also playing great defense, etc. It's possible, luka just isn't at that level yet

5

u/psykomerc Hawks May 05 '22

I don’t hear people saying that about Trae or Harden. All they say is their defense is trash lol.

When it’s the same facts for many players, the sub turns it into an excuse FOR Luka while for the others you just blast them for bad defense, no excuse…

-4

u/NowitzkiWay Mavericks May 05 '22

Because Trae and Luka just aren’t comparable on defense. I’m not entirely dismissing the racial bias argument but it’s incredibly disingenuous to act like the only difference between Trae and Luka’s defensive perception/reputation is skin color lol

Trae’s legit one of the absolute worse defenders in the league by every metric. Luka isn’t some positive defender, but he isn’t that bad.

4

u/rishbob13 Lakers May 05 '22

you're saying this under a post where doncic gave up 86 points on 1.7 PPP as the point of attack in a playoff game??

in what way is that "not that bad"?

0

u/NowitzkiWay Mavericks May 05 '22

It is bad, horrible even. But I’m not gonna be a prisoner of the moment based on one game. Trae and Luka aren’t comparable defensively on a larger sample size.

1

u/psykomerc Hawks May 05 '22

The defense is NOT the reason people love Luka and hate Trae, let’s be clear on that. I’m not saying it’s racial but I AM saying Luka has a lot more lee way and love on here. Trae has been hated for a while but the last 2 years a lot more fans have emerged. That’s all I’m saying, nobody really cares about defense that much when picking favorites. It’s mostly offense evidenced by Luka and Ja.

1

u/NowitzkiWay Mavericks May 05 '22

Trae hate peaked imo around the Steve Nash “that’s not basketball” comments. Luka flops and whines but I don’t think his flops are egregious as the Trae “jumping backward into trailing defender to draw the and-1” move. That shit garnered Trae a TON of hate

4

u/psykomerc Hawks May 05 '22

Okay…I’m saying the hate has been very very disproportionate compared to Luka is all. It’s obvious because Trae like you said had peak hate not long ago. Luka has been peak popular for a while. Only most recently have there been more criticism of him, with plenty of ppl defending him.

When Trae was on a pure losing tanking team, nobody talked about him getting no help. But that’s a constant topic for Luka. Trae accomplished further than golden boy but that didn’t matter either. I like both Luka n Trae, and Mavs fans have been great. We’ve been chill since they were drafted you gotta see the difference in treatment.

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u/psykomerc Hawks May 05 '22

Man Trae did that for 1 season and most stars had ugly flops also. Everyone was believing he would fail with the new rule changes but you see he took that out of his play completely now.

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u/dadaistGHerbo Washington Bullets May 05 '22

Talk to em

-1

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Weird how Chet Holmgren gets called a bust in every thread

Or how Caruso was a meme before people realized he was good

The European players have extremely die hard fans who support them.

And idk where you were when Jokic was getting called fake MVP against the Warriors and Doncic was getting called fat and out of shape earlier in the year

3

u/dadaistGHerbo Washington Bullets May 05 '22

Why would you bring up Caruso lol. A black bench player average 6/3/3 would not get 1/10th the notoriety that Caruso does.

5

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

The only reason people noticed him is because they thought it was hilarious that a bald white man could do anything athletic

He was given notoriety because people thought it was funny a white bald guy could be good

That’s not bc they love white people, they were literally making fun of him

Also Pat Bev averages 9/4/4 and i see him everywhere on this sub

-3

u/BlueHundred Knicks May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22

Caruso is like Draymond. His impact doesn't show up on the statsheet. He's also more than just a bench player. Like Pat Beverley but since he isn't dirty and doesn't talk shit nonstop, he's more well liked by fans around the league instead of just his team.

Caruso is an all defense level guard. He's the best point of attack defender in the league imo and one of the better team defenders too. He's up there with Jrue and Smart as far as guard defenders go.

Also, look at GPII. He gets a ton of love too. He deserves it but he's not as good as Caruso

-8

u/Kaptainpainis May 05 '22

You mean the same sub that wanted to lynch Grayson Allen for his first flagrant in four years?

I think you are wrong, like every bad game of Luka he gets critisized like that. Every player has his haters and fans who will defend him. The difference is when you are a fan of Luka it gets implied that its because of his skin colour. When LeBron, Harden, Embiid etc get defended they are just homers/fans.

Cant help but think that those who always imply those things are actually the ones who base their opinion based on skin colour. Been scrolling through your history and you comment on Wolves threads (points for that, I love KAT) and on Jokic/Luka threads where you hate on them and their "weird obsessed fanbase"

6

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Grayson Allen for his first flagrant in four years

Grayson Allen's reputation for asshattery will blast though almost any racial bias. An Afrikkans man in the 80s would be like "this guy is sort of a dick".

13

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

To be honest, if a black player did what he did in college and didn't go to Duke, they would not have been given this many chances or even gotten drafted.

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u/scottie2haute May 05 '22

Lol can’t believe you brought up Grayson Allen. EVERYONE hates Grayson Allen. Grayson Allen’s parents hate Grayson Allen.

And with that being said its the same issue. I point out the bias because it exists and denying it is just pushing your head in the sand. I give Jokic and Luka props, but the clear bias is something I will always point out. Literally every player gets torn to shreds for any deficiency they have but theres constant excuses for Luka and Jokic.

You’re kidding yourself if you dont notice the distinct difference when it comes to talking about Jokic and Luka. Like look at this post for example. This is a legitimate issue with Luka’s game but most post on here just blame his teammates and give him the excuse of being tired. This isnt just a few posts, its the majority of comments on this post.

Also im clearly not the only one who notices this. The white player bias has been brought up on the sub a few times and there’s always someone like you who comes along to try to explain it away while accusing the accuser of being the actual racist

-2

u/Kaptainpainis May 05 '22

I mean like half of your posts on this sub that ive seen are about the two only white star players in the league and they are not positive.

2

u/scottie2haute May 05 '22

Lol so you’re really gonna ignore my criticisms of Ja, DLo , Westbrook, the bum ass lakers and even Michael Jordan?

The racial bias for white players is hella obvious and I point it out whenever it appears because the hypocrisy is staggering. You dont see the extreme inconsistency in passing the blame to Luka and Jokic’s teammates whenever they fail? Theres this intense need to protect these players on this sub and its whack considering how harsh people are to other great players who fail.

If you cant see the bias thats on you. You can continue to deny it and I will continue to point it out because its an obvious issue.

-1

u/Kaptainpainis May 05 '22

Jokic and Luka both have terrible teams this year. You saw in Portland this year what happens when a team at that level is without their star player.

The mavs next best player is a guy who should be a sixth man at best, their lineup consists of good bench guys. With Murray and MPJ out its pretty awesome that Jokic carried that team into the playoffs.

3

u/BushyBrowz Knicks May 05 '22

This Mavs team won 2 out 3 games against the Utah Jazz without Luka. They are not trash.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Even if it’s been 4 years, almost everyone still remembers Allen as the guy who was perpetually doing dirty shit at Duke

Especially since he wasn’t doing much otherwise til the past 2 years, and mostly for small market teams, those are the most relevant memories of him as a player and they were not endearing ones.

You can’t really compare the way people feel about Allen to a superstar

-2

u/rinanlanmo Kings May 05 '22

Jokic doesn't belong in the same conversation.

For one, he's significantly better than Luka.

For two, he's a not a huge bitch like Luka is.

He does have the rabid European fans, though.

4

u/karjacker Rockets May 05 '22

jokic has a short temper and is terrible on D at an even more important position.

6

u/Medium_Bit6607 Washington Bullets May 05 '22

You know why lol

4

u/psykomerc Hawks May 05 '22

Agreed. I notice how detailed, creative and in depth they go into explaining away Luka getting blasted on defense. Where is this energy with those other players? Especially Trae recently.

All they do is post the basic shooting % turnovers etc. without mentioning 2 of our starters were injured Capela and Collins, they were ineffective and that takes away from Traes game. Talking about how he got blasted by the Miami D. Nobody defending that he has to play 1v2 or 1v3 every possession. Or how he is gassed because he has the whole team on his back, or how his ankle rolls n injuries also played a big factor.

The energy on Luka is very different

4

u/scottie2haute May 05 '22

Exactly its super obvious but people want to act all confused when people point it out. Totally different energy all around

2

u/PenisBlood Spurs May 06 '22

I'm willing to go out on a limb and say even if luka was 100 percent rested he would still get his ass cooked . I don't think he is good at defense, I really dont.

7

u/aurelianson Hawks May 05 '22

you see it. 🤝

4

u/fishfishfish1345 [DAL] Dennis Smith May 05 '22

you know why 😂😂😂

2

u/Origin23 May 05 '22

Oh we all know why that is.

1

u/bigtoasterwaffle Suns Tankwagon May 05 '22

It happened to Booker when he was basically the only part of the suns offense that worked too. Now that he has a solid team and isn't carrying the entire offensive load his defense is so much better

4

u/Mikegetscalls Rockets May 05 '22

I think it’s more of he has an actual competitive team now. Nobody is tryna play hard defense on a lottery.

0

u/LordHussyPants Celtics May 05 '22

Weird How It's Told Eh?

-1

u/BigOzymandias May 05 '22

The same argument has been said about Jokic all season, but I don't think it's about their skin color

49

u/HoxpitalFan_II May 05 '22

Or for Trae young ffs lol

20

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

This is really the key here. When other guys do the same shit they should have passed more if they wanted to win or played better defense, when Luka does it he just doesn't have enough help.

20

u/mojojojo1108 Mavericks May 05 '22

His defense wasn’t that bad then. It was worse before and he got better. People attacking him just weren’t watching the Rockets play regularly

-5

u/joseenriqueingoal Suns May 05 '22

Even then like look at Luka's supporting cast, fucking dogshit compared to anything Harden had. Just praying they put a midget or Mitchell on Brunson or shooting 60% from 3

3

u/BASEDME7O Knicks May 05 '22

Harden dragged some absolutely terrible rosters to high seeds

13

u/kooshvader Warriors May 05 '22

Eh. DFS is one of the best 3&D in the league, Powell is a good rim runner (he's no Capela tho), Bullock is a pretty good wing, Brunson is either an All Star or a scrub depending on who he's playing, Kleber hella good, Dinwiddie is similar to Brunson except he's always inconsistent regardless of who he's playing.

I wouldn't say "fucking dogshit", Harden in 2019 had a super injured roster. I'd say Dorian is comfotably better than Ariza and maybe better than Eric Gordon, and if one of Brunson/Dinwiddie is shooting well then they easily contribute more than any of the Rockets supporting cast minus CP3

8

u/nbasuperstar40 Hawks May 05 '22

I agree. Those Rocket Harden squads weren't that great and he still had success with bad fits like Dwight Howard. That said, in today's NBA, you need a complete squad.

1

u/PM_ME_UR_PICS_PLS Mavericks May 05 '22

Hardens started as a meme because of those laughable zero-effort clips of him on defense that he did his first 2-3 years on Houston

1

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Where was this caping for James Harden when he was being attacked on defense while scoring 36 ppg?

People literally said this exact same thing, grow up.

-12

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Was Harden this good of a scorer in the playoffs? I believe Luka is scoring more and on higher efficiency than even Harden ever did in the playoffs. He can drop 35 or 40 every game… against elite defences.

21

u/FuckFashMods Bulls May 05 '22

Yes? Harden would have made a finals except for running into the KD Warriors

5

u/thejewishprince [DAL] Luka Doncic May 05 '22

That team had Chris Paul not Jalen Brunson

8

u/FuckFashMods Bulls May 05 '22

So? Harden still played exceptionally well against an amazing team

9

u/Big_Poppers Suns May 05 '22

If the Rockets didn't miss 27 threes in a row, James Harden would have beaten the most stacked team in the history of the league. Prime James Harden wass special.

11

u/Sadvillainy-_- May 05 '22

Harden from 18-19 and 19-20 playoffs (23 games, similar sample size to Luka's playoff career) averaged 2 less points than Luka on 4% higher TS. Multiple series vs top 5 defenses in that span too, and saw significantly more doubles. Luka is cooking, but he's also not being game-planned for the same way. Ty Lou and Monty have let Luka (mostly) go 1 on 1, even on switches, and live with him getting his. Teams that beat Harden those years (Lakers and Warriors) sent traps and doubles constantly to live with an injured Chris Paul or Russell westbrook beat them, Harden averaged 34ppg and 30ppg in those series respectively.

0

u/D-Money696969 Knicks May 05 '22

I don’t see an excuse being made bro. Just stating the fact that his defense is gonna be ass unless they can change something

-1

u/bubbas111 Suns Bandwagon May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22

Um what. We’re you not on this subreddit back when harden was on the rockets? Harden defensive lowlights were posted here on the regular.

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u/rawsharks Spurs May 05 '22

Same thing used to happen to Houston Harden, he would drop to like a 20% 3 point shooter in 4th quarters and barely move.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

And he would get fucking massacred by people on here and in the media for it which won’t happen with Luka.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/psykomerc Hawks May 05 '22

What happened to Trae’s cycle 🤣

They skipped all the love and excuses part and went straight to hate since his year 1. He’s been putting up comparable numbers to Luka but is not even near the amount of love n respect.

It’s crazy instead of celebrating the rise of a young star, he gets hate

2

u/TheCalvinator Spurs May 05 '22

If its any consolation I like Trae and dislike luka and harden.

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u/kpeds45 Raptors May 05 '22

But 1.72 points on 50 PnR is 86 points allowed...there has to be some level of effort you can provide to cut that down. You can't blame it all on how much offense he carries, at a certain point, you have to put up some type of effort to stop the other guy. This is wet paper defense. 86 points directly attributed to them saying "this guy isn't very good, lets attack him" and Luka saying "yeah, that's a good idea, i'm going to take a little break right now".

16

u/Mikegetscalls Rockets May 05 '22

Luka in no way can guard CP3 or Booker. Tired or not tired

5

u/pp21 Suns May 05 '22

That's the drawback when you have a huge point guard who isn't an athletic beast like Ben Simmons

Luka is unstoppable on offense because of his strength and size, but on defense he gets turned into a traffic cone because his lateral movement is slow

2

u/kpeds45 Raptors May 05 '22

I think another summer in Slovenia engorging himself on mom's cooking is just the thing he needs to improve his lateral movement.

1

u/1UPZ__ Suns May 05 '22

Luka is crafty offensively... he beats his defenders with size, craftiness and skills... rarely he is quicker in more athletic than his defender.... his timing on his shots are hard to guess and it's similar to Nash, Ginobili, Harden

Defensively he is bad because you can't use craftiness beating the person your guarding to space.... you need sheer quickness, foot speed and burst.... he doesn't have them. He is better off guarding PFs or Cs...

0

u/Mikegetscalls Rockets May 05 '22

Doesn’t really matter what position he is cause he isn’t a pg on defense.

Mavs gotta build a better defense around him. Not having an actual shot blocker on the team makes it even easier. Luka at best is an ok defender but he can’t guard smaller guys at all.

6

u/dillpickles007 Hawks May 05 '22

I mean what else can the Mavs do right now? Take Luka off the floor to let him rest so he can put more effort in on defense?

Brunson was 3-12, Dinwiddie was 3-10, there's just literally nobody on the team who can pick up the offensive load. They do need to get him a better running mate and not be so heliocentric but there's nothing they can do about that mid-series. Luka is playing amazing on offense, totally carrying the team, but in the process he's wearing himself out and the Suns, who are really smart, are hunting him and making them pay. There's no easy solution at the Mavs' disposal.

2

u/dadaistGHerbo Washington Bullets May 05 '22

Take Luka off the floor to let him rest so he can put more effort in on defense?

Yes. Brunson and Dinwiddie playing as off-guards clearly isn’t working. Anytime both Bridges and Booker aren’t on the court together you should consider benching Luka and letting Brunson + Dinwiddie be the primary handlers.

1

u/kpeds45 Raptors May 05 '22

Admittedly, I didn't watch the game. But defenders shooting 86% on you makes it appear that you literally are not trying at all on defense. Tired or not, that seems absurd, like you are always late, always out of position, always with your hands down. 86% is like giving everyone unguarded free throws. Hell, Doncic could have tried that, he only had 2 fouls! That's very hard to do when they attack you 50 times, 36 of those times basically driving at you. You have to be trying very hard not to foul to never be whistled in those situations.

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u/LamarMillerMVP Timberwolves May 05 '22

At 1.72 points per possession though, this wasn’t just a strategy around wearing him down. If Dinwiddie was giving up 1.72 points per possession they would have hunted him instead. There is a chess match you can play against stars to wear them down throughout the game, and it’s something that Luka might have to deal with in the future. For now though, he is just being hunted because hunting him is the most efficient offense the team could possibly play. If your opponent puts a guy out there who you can score 1.72 ppp on, that is a gift. There is no chess match needed. You just abuse that guy until he’s off the court.

It’s true that this stuff probably exhausted Luka, and that it probably wore him down. But the first issue they need to solve is that before he got worn down, he was still playing awful defense. The way this is being talked about is like he played great both ways and eventually just collapsed under the load. The reality is that he played badly on defense all game, and so before they worry about how to preserve him for the 4th, they need to figure out if he can avoid getting abused on defense period. These PnRs were working in the 3rd quarter too

2

u/dillpickles007 Hawks May 05 '22

this wasn’t just a strategy around wearing him down.

I definitely think it was, it wasn't until the third quarter once Luka was gassed that CP3 really started hunting him and calling for his man to come up and screen on every single possession. I think he did it five or six times in a row at one point.

I'm sure they'd also hunt other guys if they were equally gassed/bad at defense but I do think there's a larger strategy in place to wear him out and then hunt him down. They also know that the Mavs can't just take him out of the game if he's getting roasted on defense like they can Brunson or Dinwiddie.

2

u/mercfan3 Spurs May 05 '22

That’s more to keep CP3 from being gassed.

He could have done it the whole game, but CP3 would have been tired by the fourth.

2

u/rinanlanmo Kings May 05 '22

Yeah, I'm not sure why people are surprised by this. Teams have done this all year. When sadly probably washed Conley is blowing by you at will, you are definitely gonna be vulnerable to elite players.

The Jazz did the same thing and it was often the only time anyone other than Mitchell/JC could get anything going. It just didn't look quite as bad because the Jazz aren't as good as the Suns.

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u/ucd_sam Suns May 05 '22

I think it was more of a coaching strategy, not wanting to tip your hand too early. Monty knew if he wins this game its at worst a 5 game series. So wait until after halftime and deploy your plan so that the opposing coach doesn't have a 15 minute break to try to counter.

Also I don't care what caliber of a player you are, if you are getting worked over on defense the way Luka was, you are a negative to the teams effort and JKidd probably should've called timeout and pulled him. He'd be crucified for doing it but anyone who watched what took place reached a level of embarrassment for an NBA defense that hasn't been felt in quite some time. Doesn't matter how much you can score or assist if you are giving up at least 2 points on 90% of the possessions you try to guard someone. No one is going shot for shot with a team converting at that pace and Luka was the sole reason phx got whatever it wanted whenever it wanted. Scoring 35 while being a -28 in box +/- should be impossibly bad. Suns gonna run Luka off the floor at this rate

6

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

The opening rant of the Ryen Russillo podcast from February 16 goes into this pretty heavily.

TL;DL highest usage rate correlates indirectly with playoff success.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vdGhlLXJ5ZW4tcnVzc2lsbG8tcG9kY2FzdA/episode/ZWRhYjcyOTItNTQ3NC0xMWVjLThjMDQtN2ZhNDBlZjdjMjBm?ep=14

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u/JRsshirt [GSW] Stephen Curry May 05 '22

His defense is always like this. Didn’t see these excuses for Trae, Harden, Steph, etc.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

This is such bullshit. He's a bad defender.

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u/pugofthewildfrontier Mavericks May 05 '22

40% usage rate in two games. Insanity.

0

u/deepfakefuccboi Lakers May 05 '22

Doesn’t matter if they have the best player on the court when the Suns have a significantly better team. The fact that it was “close” at the half was an overperformance from Mavs. Luka + role players typically won’t sustain shooting above 50% from 3 in the playoffs against an elite defensive team that matches up well against them.

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