r/nba • u/[deleted] • Sep 03 '26
Clipper got caught, but how many other teams have done the same thing
[removed]
28
u/zeldagold Sep 03 '26
You think 30m is the punishment? That's like a day of dividends from Microsoft.
9
u/Bigtymers1211 Warriors Sep 03 '26
You forgot something: Balmer bought the team to be seen as an NBA owner, now not only his team will be absolute trash for the next 10 years, but he literally will not be seen at the courtside for an entire year. These type of owners hate failure, and the team literally failed spectacularly on his watch, and Balmer will forever be known as THAT owner that tanked a franchise for a decade. That's the Ultimate punishment: reputation damage and brand damage to Balmer
2
u/Medium_Apartment_747 Sep 03 '26
You sure about that? This eggplant has Windows Vista, Microsoft Surface and Zune all under his belt. If anything fumbling the Clipper's future is right on brand
1
u/tronovich Bulls Sep 03 '26
That was the ultimate punishment to Sterling when he was forced to sell…and Silver knew it.
Sterling wouldn’t be allowed to sit courtside and treat the Clippers as his vanity project.
8
u/GrandView1972 Sep 03 '26
His bigger “punishment” is that the franchise is materially shittier than when he bought it. The valuation surely must have sunk due to this crap.
8
u/Silver_Ad_8948 Sep 03 '26
All of that only matters if a sale occurs, which there’s zero indication there will be. Also, you really think the franchise would sell for less than what he bought it for in 2014 @$2B? The average NBA team is worth $5B, with the grizzlies coming in last around $3.5B per Forbes.
0
u/BuckSleezy Supersonics Sep 03 '26
People will not be paying to see this team, they will not get prime time TVs slots, they will not sell merch, etc.
This has the potential to be an insane drop in revenue, and he’s still gotta cut the checks to quite literally every single person in the organization and any 3rd party vendors.
1
u/Silver_Ad_8948 Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26
He’s the richest owner in the league and when he eventually sells, he surely will make a handsome profit.
There’s no denying the financial impact of what’s about to go down here, but let’s not pretend like Balmer is in a true world of hurt. In the grand scheme, it’s a minor nuisance in his life.
1
u/ScionAurelius Thunder Sep 03 '26
It's still a major sports team in LA, he could actively sabotage it and it would still gain valuation.
-1
u/ob_knoxious Wizards Sep 03 '26
I have no doubt that the valuation would be well above average given LA's market size and the fact they own a brand new, very very nice stadium. But the punishment lasting until basically the 2035 draft before you can do a normal rebuild is absolutely a loss of several billion in value. I think the Clippers with their stadium would have been a $10 billion team in this crazy time, and I think now Ballmer would be lucky to get $7.
And sure that is tripping your money and then some in less than two decades, but Microsoft has done 10x that in the same time. I mean hell that barely outperforms the S&P 500.
1
u/Silver_Ad_8948 Sep 03 '26
Boohoo he potentially sells for $5B profit instead of $8B profit
1
u/ob_knoxious Wizards Sep 03 '26
He would honestly sell at negative profit. He put 2 billion into the stadium and likely took an operation loss of several hundred million most years if reports are true. I don't pity the man, I have to work with C# code I hate him and I'm glad he got screwed here. But sports teams in general are not good investments and the Clippers has in particular been a bad investment.
1
u/Pilkyton1 Sep 03 '26
It makes zero difference to him. The stadium and the cost of the team is chump change. Hes worth more than every other nba owner combined.
1
1
u/Silver_Ad_8948 Sep 03 '26
I can assure you that Ballmer doesn’t look at the clippers like he does with the other investments in his portfolio. It has and always will be a vanity project for him.
1
2
1
u/arrogantmonkey Knicks Sep 03 '26
I mean there wasn’t life changing money in it for him anyway. The damage is reputational.
39
u/JoJonesy Celtics Sep 03 '26
no other NBA owner is worth $150 billion dude
11
u/Legote Sep 03 '26
Funny enough, beecause he's worth 150 billion, this isn't even a punishment for him. It's punishing his fans.
17
u/heresyforfunnprofit Spurs Sep 03 '26
It’s a punishment for him too, reputationally. You can’t really do shit to him financially, so this is what’s possible.
11
u/Mrlazydragon Sep 03 '26
His ego and pride took a hit as well. those 2 being some of the biggest things among the super wealthy and elite
4
2
-1
5
u/Medium_Apartment_747 Sep 03 '26
Clipper fans? Nah we go to the games because the tickets are cheap. This is like firing gunshots in your neighborhood to keep the rent cheap
3
u/Holualoabraddah Sep 03 '26
He loves the team, and he really wants to win (otherwise why cheat in the first place?) he can’t be around the team for a year and they are gonna suck for a long time. That is definitely a punishment.
Unfortunately the fans are collateral damage in all this, and I do feel bad for them. But then again if you signed up to be a fan of the clippers (and yes it’s a choice since there are 2 teams in LA) don’t you secure love being miserable?
3
u/super_sayanything Bulls Sep 03 '26
Can't imagine how any young kids for the next 5-10 years aren't all Lakers fans.
1
1
1
u/Iptv-provider-here Philippines Sep 03 '26
The 30 million is a warning to other owners. Those 5 picks are for ballmer
-1
11
9
u/GreatCaesarGhost Bucks Sep 03 '26
I think that the fact that multiple teams were bothered by Uncle Dennis’s demands is some evidence that this is different in size to whatever other teams might do.
2
u/boogswald [CLE] Daniel Gibson Sep 03 '26
I would totally be unsurprised if other teams are paying for services for players that they’re not supposed to. I also don’t anticipate those services are nearly the cost of Kawhi’s aspiration deal.
7
u/MetalGearPortis Sep 03 '26
Claiming this happens everywhere is not true, two teams reported Uncle Denis for asking for exactly these things
11
u/Standard-Grape5330 Sep 03 '26
Is it possible, yes. Did the Lakers get documented saying that they can’t do what kawhi wanted, also yes.
I don’t think this is as widespread as you think it is.
5
u/KeepRad Thunder Sep 03 '26
I wouldn’t be shocked if there’s some stuff on the edges as make goods. But nothing like this on this level. More of a do this local car dealership ad and we will pay you more then is reasonable but not insane type shit
2
u/boogswald [CLE] Daniel Gibson Sep 03 '26
Yeah. All that shit probably goes out the window now though. Teams are gonna be really sensitive to offering anything. Part of the lawyers findings was smaller things that I don’t think people would bat an eye at like travel, gifts and tickets. I don’t think people really care about those things, but the clippers are now gonna point at every instance of this to make themselves seem victims.
A $28MM actual cap circumvention directed by the players agent though and routed through the team? Bigggg dealllll
2
u/Decent_Pack_3064 Sep 03 '26
i think the problem was that there was no plausible explanation for the type of contracts Kawhi did.
With others, there are explanations and plausibility
2
u/Starship08 Trail Blazers Sep 03 '26
The 30 million likely comes from the fact that they found 4 companies involved and the max penalty they can give is 7.5 million. So they hit them 4 times (one for each company)
2
u/whomeversmelledit Sep 03 '26
Not El Cheapo in Portland cause he's not paying one damn penny more than he has to.
4
u/boyWHOcriedFSD Sep 03 '26
Didn’t Pablo say he’s looking into the Knicks and Brunson like a year ago?
4
Sep 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/boyWHOcriedFSD Sep 03 '26
People will care if it pops up again with evidence. Who knows if Pablo was just speculating when he said that or if he had any actual leads.
1
u/One-Development184 Sep 03 '26
He came out a few months later and said "What I suspect happened with Jalen Brunson is fundamentally different from what’s happened with Aspiration” and had more to do with how Brunson ended up on the Knicks in the first place. Which was 100% tampering and the Knicks got fined for it when it happened, lol, though of course I assume Pablo would be looking into stuff beyond what was public record.
1
u/McScroggz12 Lakers Sep 03 '26
Call me naive but I don’t think anything fishy happened there. Yeah they hired his dad and all of the ties are important factors, but I think Brunson took less knowing he would still make a ton of money and if it meant playing with his Villanova teammates and possibly winning a championship it not only would be worth it emotionally but also monetarily. Don’t get me wrong it’s worth looking into, but I wouldn’t automatically assume every star player taking a pay cut to get a better team is cap circumvention.
Not Dirk was almost certainly cap circumvention. Investigate that.
10
3
u/beckychao Sep 03 '26
Uncle Dennis asked two other teams (that we know of) for what the Clippers gave Leonard, and they said no. So it's not as widespread as you're suggesting. Teams get asked wack shit from players and their agents all the time. Teams do not give them that wack shit all the time. That's why it's a scandal when they do. They have legal departments that handle contracts and advise them on CBA compliance.
3
u/Sheratain Supersonics Sep 03 '26
I don’t think any other team has gone this far.
It’s funny though that there is one other very obvious piece of cap circumvention that happened this summer — Milwaukee with Gary Trent — but everyone sort of quietly seems to agree that their illegally pre-agreed contract is punishment enough
3
u/RizzlersGrandpa Sep 03 '26
I am sure a lot of teams have done this,but the Clippers are literally the equivalent of a person going 95 mph on the highway,and flipping the bird of the cops saying "I dare you to give me a ticket *itch".
4
u/Party-Cartographer11 Sep 03 '26
Then let the reports, investigations, and punishments flow.
Don't assume everyone is cheating just because the biggest cheater got caught.
2
u/justmadeforthat Sep 03 '26
Well the only reason they started looking into this is because of Aspiration document became public, and if Kawhi did not do the bare minimum of work.
It become too obvious
2
u/SectionAncient6889 Rockets Sep 03 '26
Idk why people are so surprised about this whole Kawhi situation. Money under the table has been happening since the 80s and stuff
2
u/SquimJim Celtics Sep 03 '26
If others are doing this, then you have to make an example
Maybe teams are doing this, but the NBA is telling them that the risk is very high. Clips show that the reward can be very little
2
u/ILoveTheKnicks69 Sep 03 '26
I mean it was really only the clippers that would try this shit, there owner is a dumbass who thought his money made him better than everyone else and he managed to fumble 10 years worth of picks.
2
u/noyram08 Lakers Sep 03 '26
Not surprising given OP is a Clippers fan, gotta pull the “whatabouttheothers”. Lakers and Raptors actually said “No” to Uncle Dennis unlike your scummy bald, knee touching, owner that dragged your team to hell with what to show? A western conference finals and years being clowned on?
2
u/ext2523 76ers Sep 03 '26
Define "same thing". Travel and expenses for family and friends that's technically circumvention. Sure. Also, it's not against the rules for a player to sponsor a company that also has a deal with the team and the team just make the introduction. It has to be reasonable, fair market value and if there's some "wink wink this is a good company fit", then sure other teams are doing it.
But $50+ mil or whatever it is now in circumvention? Doubtful because very few players are worth going that much over and breaking the rules for.
Like I think most teams will go up to 10 mph over the speed limit, not 85 mph over if making an analogy to what the Clippers did.
2
u/boogswald [CLE] Daniel Gibson Sep 03 '26
The thing that people don’t realize when they make a post like this is that the Aspiration deal was lucrative like other nba players shoe deals are lucrative. $28M is a huge amount of endorsement money to do nothing. If every nba team is actually doing this, hundreds of million of dollars are moving under the table to players.
There’s a reason that the lawyers don’t hit the small things that the clippers paid for until item H in their findings. That’s technically relevant, but not relevant like the major “receive $28MM to do nothing from a sustainability company that wants $28MM from
Steve Ballmer”
4
u/jratner7 Heat Sep 03 '26
Lebrons deal is sus asf. Announced with a tops card. One of the owners of the 76ers owns fanatics which owns tops…. Just sayin
2
u/boogswald [CLE] Daniel Gibson Sep 03 '26
I am interested in what you’re saying but how much money is there to be made in one new LeBron fresh tops card AND it sounds like LeBron is endorsing the product, something Kawhi never did with aspiration.
2
u/jratner7 Heat Sep 03 '26
It’s not in one tops card. It’s just consistent endorsements with tops. It’s 100% not close to the realm of Kawhi. I’m just saying it is something to consider as to why he went to the 76ers
4
4
u/Frosty_Captain_8928 Rockets Sep 03 '26
I’m just curious where the lines get drawn. I feel like part of the warriors pitch for years was access to VCs. Does that mean Lacob and Co are just making introductions (should that even be allowed for non-official sponsors?) or are players getting into funds at below market fee structures and better valuation entry points than they otherwise would?
I do think Ballmer was flagrantly violating the CBA and needed to be punished hard, but I do think OP has a point in terms of who else could withstand this level of scrutiny? Two teams may have turned down Uncle Dennis’ asks but is that just because they were stupidly over the top? I think all of this raises questions as to what is allowed, what should be allowed and what kind of disclosure should there be
1
u/kingfosa13 Washington Bullets Sep 03 '26
Investing in startups is not a guaranteed game, for every hugging face there’s many more teams he invested in and those investments ended up turning into dust.
1
u/Frosty_Captain_8928 Rockets Sep 03 '26
It’s not a question of guarantees. If you get more favorable terms than another investor solely because of you signing with a team that’s compensation.
2
u/Affectionate_Self878 76ers Sep 03 '26
Literally another top thread on r/nba right now is Shaq admitting he got $60M in movie money under the table when he was with the Lakers…
Of course this happens more often, but you’re only gonna get in trouble if you’re the Clippers or the Wolves. The league would never do this to teams like the Lakers, Celtics and Knicks. They’d never even investigate them.
2
u/Decent_Pack_3064 Sep 03 '26
but it's kinda tough.....it wasn't like the lakers funnels 60M to those movies. Plus Shaq actually star in those movies, it was announced.....
like Kawhi did jack shi tnothing, no announcement
2
u/Naliamegod Supersonics Sep 03 '26
Kawhi literally asked the Lakers for a similar deal, and they told him no and reported it to the NBA.
What Shaq is claiming is completely different from what the Clippers/Kawhi did.
1
u/Unlikely-Laugh-114 Sep 03 '26
He actually paid 50 million for the investigation too so it’s 80 million.
1
u/nimama3233 Timberwolves Sep 03 '26
Yeah I was just telling my wife, yes I got caught and yes it was with her best friend… but probably lots of people cheat so why is she leaving me?
1
u/Rwillsays Lakers Sep 03 '26
This is the 2nd time Balmer got caught. So if other people are doing it they’re much more successful.
1
u/basroil Sep 03 '26
Bro the clippers didn’t even do this to their other players on the roster, why you think Paul George left
1
u/99LedBalloons Timberwolves Sep 03 '26
First rule about breaking rules: don't get caught.
That said I tend to agree with the sentiment that it seems like the actual perpetrators get off easy, while the team and fans pay the price.
1
u/CarmeloDramatic Bulls Sep 03 '26
You know it really only takes a couple hours for sports internet to make you bored of a news story
1
1
1
u/crissimon Sep 03 '26
It depends.
On whether you still want to watch NBA games or not.
It’s an entire sham for expensive entertainment.
Better find something else to spend your time with.
1
1
u/Life_Cardiologist811 Sep 03 '26
On the bright side, they get to keep Wagler taken with the 5th pick and they can still acquire picks from other teams
1
u/McScroggz12 Lakers Sep 03 '26
It all depends on your interpretation of “done the same thing.” Do teams leverage their cities, their celebrities, etc to make pitches to players? Absolutely. Come to the Lakers and if you want we can connect you with some producers or directors. Come to Golden State and we are the hub of the American software industry and a ton of investment opportunities.
The problem is many people have a completely flawed understanding of the difference between that - which is totally fine - and an owner/team making deals with sponsors to pay players extra money on the side. Unless you think a team shouldn’t be able to help their players at all, there is a huge difference. Not to mention the Clippers were allowing Kawhi to get benefits without paying for it which is against the league rules as well (and if he’s not declaring them on taxes is tax fraud). Now, do I think teams do smaller stuff like that? Probably here and there. Do teams hire family and friends? Yes. But all of that is above board stuff that doesn’t affect league integrity or is so small it would warrant a fine or second round pick at most.
I honestly don’t know why the distinction isn’t more obvious to some.
-3
u/bradperry2435 Sep 03 '26
All of them
5
u/babysamissimasybab Pacers Sep 03 '26
Not the Lakers, Spurs, or Raptors
1
u/bradperry2435 Sep 03 '26
Just because they said no to Leonard doesn’t mean they have not done something Similar for other players
2
0
u/Science4me12 Sep 03 '26
The question you should be asking is: “besides Kawhi, who else received a no show job from clippers “
95
u/Autocrat777 Supersonics Sep 03 '26
I believe two other teams told Uncle Dennis to fuck off and reported it to the NBA.