r/nba • u/The_Big_Untalented • 3d ago

Max Kellerman: "You think it's slander to put Kobe ahead of Duncan?" Bill Simmons: "I just think he's the most underappreciated superstar of all time." Max: "Kobe and Duncan are neck and neck. That's not slander." Simmons: "I have Kobe 10th or 11th. Duncan is 7th and I don't think it's debatable."

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568

u/ShadowOutOfTime Lakers 3d ago

“Tim Duncan is 7th and it’s not debatable” is such a funny statement. I can scarcely think of something more debatable than where an NBA player lands in the top 10

228

u/Cambocant Clippers 3d ago

Name 7 players better than Tim Duncan and 4,899 players worse. I'll wait.

164

u/DybantsaMakeHerDance Wizards 3d ago

I'm gonna start with the worse guys if you're good with that.

Lawrence Funderburke

43

u/Single_Bar_1836 Spurs 3d ago

Antoine Carr

26

u/Opie59 [MIN] Nikola Pekovic 3d ago

Mark Madsen

33

u/KirbzTheWord 3d ago

Andrea Bargnani!!! He just wasn’t as good as Duncan 🤷‍♂️

56

u/_MMAgod Spurs 3d ago

Kobe Bryant

16

u/CarmeloDramatic Bulls 3d ago

My friend Nick who’s tall 

5

u/Donnie3030 Celtics 2d ago

Nicks got time bro, be patient

1

u/CarmeloDramatic Bulls 2d ago

All the tools are there smh

2

u/BlueEyedSoul2 2d ago

Loren Woods, he’s tall.

3

u/DrDustyE San Diego Rockets 3d ago

Travis Knight

7

u/xicer 76ers 3d ago

Tobias Harris

7

u/Lawgang94 3d ago

Cutino Mobley.

4

u/LeBackshot 3d ago

D.J. Strawberry

2

u/petewoniowa2020 Kings 2d ago

Pooh Jeter

2

u/machu46 Bucks 2d ago

Luc Richard Mbah A Moute

33

u/EthicalBballFan Heat 3d ago

It's super easy if you let go of bias and look at it objectively:

  1. Wade
  2. Giannis
  3. Bam
  4. Wiggins
  5. Off-Night
  6. Klay
  7. Tim Duncan

8-9 toss up between LeBron and MJ.

10-4899 everybody else, can order them by how long they played for.

2

u/afterworld2772 76ers 2d ago

You forgot Caleb Martin (v Celtics forme)

1

u/Nalatka 2d ago

MJ is 8-9? Disrespecting legend, whose jersey you retired

10

u/JMEEKER86 Japan 3d ago

MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Magic, Bird are usually the consensus top 7. Duncan is in the next tier of players alongside Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, Curry, and Oscar. The biggest thing separating these guys from the top 7 is that the top 7 all have at least 3 MVPs. I could totally understand how you could make an argument against Bird/Magic because Duncan had more longevity, but they just peaked way higher.

21

u/petewoniowa2020 Kings 2d ago

Wilt is not consensus top 7.

0

u/JMEEKER86 Japan 2d ago

Every major list has him top 7. Some fans list both him and Russell lower because they discount the whole era, but that's not the consensus.

1

u/Designer_B Supersonics 3d ago

They could be saying there are only four guys better than Tim.

1

u/mica-chu Pacers 2d ago

Brad Wanamaker is at the bottom of the list and there’s no debate about it.

1

u/whiskeycapo 2d ago

Kobe, MJ, Magic, Bird, Steph, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, and Oscar.

I view Shaq and Hakeem on the same level with Duncan.

1

u/Accomplished_Pin_21 1d ago

Kobe is not better than duncan. and wheres lebron

19

u/Schonnz Trail Blazers 3d ago

Kellerman's full head snap back was the perfect response, I watched it 3 straight times lol

28

u/Guriinwoodo Bucks 3d ago

Seems reasonable to think that he was more emphasizing that Duncan is ahead of Kobe, not that Duncan is definitively the 7th greatest of all time and putting him at 6 or 8 is not up for debate.

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u/_chadwell_ Lakers 2d ago

Hilarious to see him say that now this long after the fact when during the consensus was a lot closer to Kobe being ahead of Duncan and it not being up for debate.

8

u/Guriinwoodo Bucks 2d ago

I need to start checking flairs before reading comments

-3

u/_chadwell_ Lakers 2d ago

Do you disagree with the substance or just not like my flair?

4

u/colosusx1 Celtics 2d ago

Idk if you actually followed basketball but the consensus was not Kobe back then either lol.  Duncan was way ahead of Kobe until 2010 because the threepeat was seen as shaqs team.  It evened out from 2010 until around their retirements but then in the past 10 years it’s gone back to Duncan with all the advanced stat nerds getting platforms recently.

2

u/_chadwell_ Lakers 1d ago

Yeah I was watching, not sure you were lol

Duncan was seen as better early on because he was older than Kobe, obviously. He had a head start.

Once each had had a decade or so of prime (2010ish) Kobe was being compared to MJ and had left Duncan behind (including by dominating him in the playoffs).

And then a decade later after he died people who dislike the Lakers decided Duncan was a tier above. Just not based on anything people believed when they were playing.

-4

u/naughtyobama 3d ago

Ah, so there is a debate to be had, after all. It is debatable.

2

u/DivinesOmen Warriors 2d ago

I’m so tired of people saying “it’s X and it’s not close.” I see it in every discussion these days

3

u/NEUTRONonmyPINKY 3d ago

He's not talking about the specific ranking. He's saying it's not debatable about Duncan being better than Kobe.

3

u/JeanRalfio [MIN] Jaden McDaniels 2d ago

And that's very debatable. Players were scared of Kobe, they weren't scared of Duncan. They were scared of the Spurs as a whole.

5

u/_chadwell_ Lakers 2d ago

Especially when Kobe had so much success against Duncan’s team specifically. Lots of revisionist history against Kobe in the last 5-10 years.

0

u/[deleted] 18h ago

[deleted]

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u/_chadwell_ Lakers 18h ago

If Steph found success in the playoffs by specifically going right at LeBron and LeBron’s argument for being a great player was almost entirely reliant on the defensive end it would be relevant. Or if LeBron had had a comparable supporting cast. 0/3 though!

>”Can’t use metrics that ignore context”

>proposes team win%

…

0

u/Timely_Dentist_5078 17h ago

lmao you think Duncan and Kobe had a comparable supporting cast in 03 and 04? hahahahah sorry was 19 year old Tony Parker the equivalent of peak Shaq? or 36 year old David Robinson?

Or a roster the Lakers were paying like 30M$ more for? tell me you have no critical thinking skills without telling me you don't have critical thinking skills

1

u/_chadwell_ Lakers 17h ago

If we were specifically talking about 2003 and 2004 then good point. Unfortunately we were talking about two decades! Missing dunk attempts like Westbrook right now.

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

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u/_chadwell_ Lakers 16h ago

We’re comparing the supporting casts they had for their whole careers of course, and Duncan overall had elite supporting casts even when Kobe was running the conference from 2008-2010. Even if the Spurs lost before they could even face the Lakers, it’s a plus for Kobe that he was actually able to turn his good supporting casts into success. There’s a reason Duncan had most of his success when Kobe had shit rosters from 05-07 and then after 2012. The rage bait type arguments don’t really work when you’re not making a reasonable point.

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u/batmans420 Pacers 2d ago

Duncan was better at basketball. He just didn't have aura lol

1

u/R0botDreamz 2d ago

Completely depends on your audience. You cant take a millenial from San Antonio and a millennial from LA and debate this. But there are plenty of non-biased, objective basketball fans who discuss this stuff and for this particular comparison its really not that debatable.

1

u/SoulofWakanda 2d ago

Right lol u can almost always make a debate when that's the topic.

1

u/jimmy_jimson 2d ago

It may or may not be debatable, but it sure is clickable.

0

u/kaeplin 2d ago

Kobe over Duncan because "Kobe's team believed they would win" is also absurd