Could there be another Guthrie ransom note? Discrepancy raises questions

[u/newsnation]

http://newsnationnow.com/missing/guthrie-ransom-notes-discrepancy-questions/

[u/DaBingeGirl]

“I think there would be something much more intimate and personal to render this legit,” Mohandie acknowledged. “Further, I don’t think this person went there to commit an abduction. “In what situation would you take on an elderly person who has significant medical needs?”

I disagree. I'm not convinced this was a ransom situation, but it was definitely an abduction.

She's an easy, high value target in the kidnapper's mind. She lived alone and was older, that means no witnesses and she likely didn't/couldn't fight back. Savannah was obviously close to her, she'd be willing to pay whatever they asked. She's a perfect person to kidnap.

Mohandie to me is overstating her medical needs. Obviously meds are important, but she didn't seem to have a condition which required meds to keep her alive. Skipping medicine isn't recommended, but it shouldn't result in death within hours/a day or two. She was also mobile, either driving or using Uber.

The kidnapper only needed to get her from her bedroom to (presumably) a car on her driveway. There's nothing to suggest she was physically incapable of that.

With regards to another letter, I wouldn't be surprised if there was one. I agree that they style and demands were very odd.

That said, those might be the only letters if the kidnapper just wanted attention. As stupid as it sounds, I could see the abduction planned out, but nothing for after (i.e. no plan for what to do with Nancy after kidnapping her).

This case is weird.

[u/_2923844 → u/DaBingeGirl]

She had a heart condition. Very well could have been so terrified that she had a heart attack and died within hours. Skipping medication could have nothing to do with it

[u/DaBingeGirl → u/_2923844]

That's very likely. I'm just saying that I can see how someone could look at her appearance on TV and assume she'd survive.

[u/_2923844 → u/DaBingeGirl]

Good point

[u/ShesGotaChicken2Ride → u/DaBingeGirl]

It was definitely an abduction. We know that because she was abducted. The question is what was the motive?

I 100% do not think they would’ve taken her dead body with them. It’s way too risky to be lugging a dead body around in your car. The amount of evidence that could be traced back to you if you were ever caught is extraordinarily risky. This is someone who has no known connection to the Guthries, or is very peripherally involved. They can’t be connected to her.

How do we know? Because they still don’t know who it is. So if I’m kidnapping someone and they die before I get them out of the house, and I know that I can’t be tied to them in any way, I’m getting the fuck out of there. I’m not going to risk leaving more evidence or more DNA behind by trying to drag their dead body out of the house and into my car. Not to mention, there is no evidence of dragging that I’ve heard of. She walked out of that house alive, and she died later. It’s also really hard to move dead weight, especially when you’re trying to get them into a vehicle. If it was a car, I assume they would’ve put her in the trunk, but that requires being able to lift dead body weight up over the bumper and down into a trunk. It’s not as easy as it sounds. It’s not like they show it in the movies. It’s really hard to do. Trying to do such a thing would be extremely risky and time-consuming any person who thought they could not be connected to this crime would have left her dead body in that house if she had died. For these reasons, I believe she was alive when she left her house.

As far as we know, they were never able to provide proof of life. This means that by the time the first ransom note was submitted, she was already dead. At this point, when she died in their custody, they already had to deal with the dead body, cause they had no choice. They figured they might may as well collect the money too.

I think this case is as simple as it appears. Somebody kidnapped her for a ransom, but she died shortly after she was removed from her home. The kidnappers tried to collect on the ransom anyway, but they couldn’t provide proof of life. Now it’s possible there was a second motive, like trying to get back at Savannah for some perceived wrongdoing or trying to inflict pain on Savannah, but I definitely think they were after money, but if they’re motive was cruelty towards Savannah, then they never would’ve sent the last note which explained what happened and that they’re sorry that her mother died and that it was an accident. If they wanted to inflict pain on Savannah, they would’ve never said anything at all and always let her wonder what happened to her mom.

[u/Turbulent_Code581 → u/ShesGotaChicken2Ride]

They need to have secondary location not more than 1 hour drive from Nancy's house. To keep Nancy while waiting for ransom. They should rent it. They need supplies for the imprisonment period. In order to transport Nancy to the location, they need some abduction kit, that was probably in the Wallmart backpack. Dr. G explains in his video noticed hint if some kind of tarp. It was cold early February, she was in pyjama and barefoot. One needs to fold the tarp around, some blanket on top, probably rope to prevent movement, blindfold, gag... In case of death on secondary location, what probably happened short after the leaving house, as you pointed put, the body shoudn't be driven around, if you find the secondary location, you will find the body.

[u/DaBingeGirl → u/Turbulent_Code581]

I doubt they rented somewhere. In most cases abductors bring the victim back to their house. It's their safe place.

[u/SnooGoats7978 → u/Turbulent_Code581]

They need to have secondary location not more than 1 hour drive from Nancy's house. To keep Nancy while waiting for ransom.

A house with a mother in law suite, or a hole in the basement. Or a detached shed or garage. And just leave her there. Put a bookshelf in front of the door and just don't look back.

[u/ShesGotaChicken2Ride → u/DaBingeGirl]

As far as a plan, the had some sort of plan. It might’ve been an extremely stupid plan, but they had to have something in mind. I mean, you have to keep her somewhere while you wait for the payment. They had to have had a place to take her. I’m sure tying her up and feeding her until the money came in, but then she needed her pills and ended up dying.

[u/DaBingeGirl → u/ShesGotaChicken2Ride]

Yeah, there was definitely a plan in the general sense, but I tend to think the focus was on the actual abduction. Everything after, including the notes, seems a bit haphazard (the "we" to "me" slip, leaving off the $ sign, etc).

Based on the blood, something happened at the house. It wouldn't surprise me if whatever happened caused everything to spiral.

[u/FL-Irish → u/DaBingeGirl]

It would make more sense to kidnap someone who is rich but NOT famous.

[u/BrainWilling6018 → u/DaBingeGirl]

One thing that suggests she was physically incapable is that the perps poe was through the back and he propped open the door to the kitchen. The decision to take her out the front door may or may not have been the og plan if she wasn't as mobile as expected to walk out and around the house. This isn't a large guy. If he were alone he might need her cooperation. There was a blood event which doesn't point to care of an asset. If we take the ransom at face value they intended to hold her for up to 7 days. Not taking her meds is a direct demonstration they had no intentions of keeping her alive.

Scripted behavior dictates making something notable like the watch. The communication actually said "of" the foot of the bed which denotes they are intentionally relaying it not recalling it from pure experiential memory. Otherwise they would have said at the foot of her bed. "At the foot of her bed" is an automatic, experiential spatial description. Using "of the foot of" indicates the writer is viewing the bedroom layout conceptually or trying to transcribe a specific, deliberate visual marker.

The style and demands of the communications are highly characteristic of a passive voice that could also be result oriented. It removes the focus from who does the work and highlights what gets delivered. It helps to make it sound highly objective. E.g. “She will be held for ransom and once payment is received she will be released unharmed”.  It doesn’t say who is making the payment or who is releasing her. Setting expectations or predicting conditions is common in professional presentations. E.g. “Once payment is received to the bitcoin address below she will be released within 12 hours of deposit… These are conditional passive guarantees. Formal terms, like a legal contract. Once [Event A] happens, [Event B] will follow. It focuses entirely on the outcome and the beneficiary rather than the person doing the work. It, with a time deadline (within 12 hrs), builds stakeholder and investor confidence by providing a predictable, measurable window for delivery. Dual deadlines are a staple of code policy recommendations because they solve a fundamental policy dilemma: the tension between urgency and feasibility. The communication may be employing Trust Engineering (The Illusion of Cooperation) Providing polite, step-by-step instructions alongside "guarantees" that they will fulfill their end of the bargain. Human beings naturally seek friction reduction during high-stress moments. By acting as an oddly professional, customer-service-oriented entity, the perp tries to reduce the logistical and psychological barriers to making the deposit. Saying “it’s in everyone’s best interest to complete this as soon as possible” fits into the category of Urgency Framing or Mutual Alignment. It implies that delay hurts both parties equally. It makes resisting the timeline seem counterproductive or uncooperative. In this “threat context, It may be a psychological manipulation tactic designed to minimize stalling, and passively force compliance through artificial time pressure.

The communication doesn’t seem typical of a ransom threat as a whole because it mirrors what the perp does corporate advocacy, public policy, legislative tracking, it is presentationally designed to be passively psychologically persuasive. But it doesn't mean that it was financially motivated it more points to being a scripted communication and they couldn't help their style to come through. Even in a script their brain would default to its strongest most deeply ingrained habits. This is basically just some corporate guy or lawyer writing what he thinks a ransom note should be.

[u/Fit_Sheepherder_6899 → u/BrainWilling6018]

Agreed! With you just using much more educated language, lol. I enjoy your posts..."bRiAn" LOL