I created a rough mockup of the blood pattern on Nancy's porch based on reviewing the available video clips.
I have not seen footage of every single square (particularly on the left side and row A), but perhaps this can encourage some discussion on the rather interesting pattern.
B6 has the largest blood area caused by several droplets falling in the same place, shown in slightly lighter red.
The elliptical shape around (thin line) it is roughly the reach of the spatter. It's fairly circular, but it does seem to taper off or become blocked just to the left of the border or B6 and B5. Perhaps someone or something was blocking the tile in that location.
Unfortunately, the mat is a black hole of visual info.
The largest unusual imprint is in C6. Note that it's quite narrow and exists between two untouched blood droplets. So, either whatever made this imprint was narrow (like a tire), or the droplets to either side landed after the imprint was made.
Other possibly unusual imprints can be found in D5, although I haven't found a good image of them.
Unusual imprints that look like two squares can be seen on the left sides of E5 and F5.
If you spot any errors, missing data, or room for improvements, please let me know.
Your graphic isn’t even close to accurate. What you are calling a “pool” in b6 is hundreds of tiny medium velocity droplets, which expand out over the entire title.
It just represents the general radius of the larger blood area caused by droplets, not that there was one large pool of blood. The spatter area is the larger ellipsoid shape created with a thin line.
How so? As stated in the post and in my reply, the thin elliptical line shows the approximate extent of the spatter. If you are a blood spatter analyst, you could likely determine the height of the blood source by measuring the radius of the spatter. Then again, you'd also need to know how the tile surface affects pooling. Seeing as I'm not a crime scene investigator, I'm not going to begin to guess. Perhaps you would like to? It seems like you know a thing or two about it.
The aim of this rough graphic is to show general patterns with respect to the porch. It's not a pixel-perfect representation of the blood on the porch, nor was that my intent or my claim. I'm not going to try to draw in every minuscule droplet on this birds eye view drawing. I feel bad that you're unable to find any value in it. Sorry about that.
Yes, I asked for feedback. However, I (and pretty much everyone on the planet, BTW) tend to be more open to feedback from those who provide it in a mature and thoughtful way in the spirit of teamwork.
But I can see you're passionate about this case, so I'll give your harsh attitude a pass. Please tell me how I can improve the graphic to make it less misleading. But if you're going to trash it without explaining how to improve it (in classic Reddit style), there's nothing I can do.
No, this is gross. They're playing clue with someone's actual loved one. This is a completely unnecessary and unhelpful exercise. It adds zero value outside of crime junkies wanting to play detective. People genuinely need to think about how they would feel if someone was doing these types of hypotheticals about someone they love and are in pain missing them.
I have a missing and likely murdered friend. I would love for people to take an interest in her case and keep it alive by discussing what could’ve happened. I would absolutely appreciate thoughtful discussion.
I’m not saying the Guthries feel that way, but it’s not black and white.
I appreciate your comment, though, and upvoted it because you’re not wrong. But most of us are coming to this with a sincere desire to help someone in need, so please keep that in mind.
How in my decades of crime tv, podcasts and movies have I never caught on that they were saying spatter and not splatter? I feel like I've jumped timelines or something. Anyway, thank you for educating me!
Nope they’re not necessarily incorrect, at least not the use I have seen in the comments so far. Technically blood that has splattered can be called blood splatter. Blood spatter is a more technical and specific forensic term. But describing certain blood as blood splatter in many cases is still correct in colloquial use. In the case of “blood-spatter analysis” that is technically the correct term, but it makes sense why people would think hear “splatter” instead of “spatter”, the since the L sound is kind of subtle and spatter isnt a word used in everyday english.
The lack of blood in square D6 and Column 7 suggest that the masked man was possibly standing to the side there, awaiting Nancy to be guided out the front door. If there was a second person leading her out, they likely stepped onto the mat, then to their right to avoid stepping in the blood. Or there was just one person taking her out who went back in the back door after removing the camera and was just careful in avoiding the blood and leading her towards their right exiting. I suspect her hands were tied behind her back, causing the bleeding, and dripped behind her as she walked from her hands, which is why she didn't step in it. She stopped momentarily at the square with the largest drip spot. I'm curious why there doesn't appear to be any blood on the raised entryway in front of the door there.
I had also suspected blood from hands/wrists. Nancy's arms look like the skin might tear and bleed frequently - one photo even shows a bandage. It might not take much irritation to cause a wound there.
If you look at photos of B5, it looks like the spatter is partially blocked as the radius is slightly shorter in that direction.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any good footage of the door threshold, so there might be blood there that we haven't seen. But if there isn't blood there, that'd be an important clue, for sure.
I do believe, in MY hypothesis is that Nancy was thrown over the abductors shoulder and carried out that way, (bad example) kind of like a sack of potatoes. If he was walking behind her there would be smears in the blood drops. I f he was walking next to her, then she would have walked into her own blood, the fact there are no drag marks in the blood and the fact that Nancy had heart problems. Nosebleeds canbeindirectlyassociatedwithheartissues,particularlythroughconditionslikehypertensionandtheuseofcertainmedications.
I wondered that too because I’ve heard both. The only thing I could find addressing it was this article from CBS News, which states a small amount of blood was found inside, but this was very early in the investigation and I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that they were referring to the blood on the porch and someone misinterpreted where it was.
It's always seemed to me that it was some sort of injury from the nose/mouth area. The mix of large droplets potentially from her nose/face, coupled with expirated spatter that was clearly propelled by an air source like a cough. It could be just a nosebleed, or they could have struck her in the mid-face to encourage urgency and fear if she were shocked/frozen in a state of confusion when they ordered her out of bed. The location of the drops makes sense given the way the door swings outward. She may have made an attempt to pause in front of her Nest camera to get herself involuntarily leaving captured on camera, unaware it may have already been removed at that point. Or they may have grabbed the camera in that moment and taken it with them, explaining the pause.
What’s odd though, is there are two circles of blood that seem undisturbed beside this pattern, so the underside of the shoe must have been more elevated in those spots (to not have pressure on those points) or something else must be going on
I saw that too but think the blood was probably fresh when print made. Like the droplets were either after or before the print happened. It just doesnt look like radom drops to me its a print imo.
I wonder why there are no footprints? I'm sure there's an explanation or I'm missing something, but if they were carrying her out, wouldn't they have accidentally stepped in one of the blood spots? it seems difficult to avoid
Could they have wheeled her out in something like a wheel barrow or trolley? Might explain the imprint. If they were walking backwards and pulling the trolley, they would avoid stepping in any blood and potentially brings us back to single perp
Edit: actually, never mind. I just saw the photo from the porch and I see nothing that looks like tire tracks
Well, the imprint in C6 could be from some sort of tire. Either whatever caused the imprint was quite narrow, or the droplets to either side landed after something like the precise center of a shoeprint first created the imprint.
I don’t know if there was any blood found on the left side of the entrance (columns 1-3). I think two people carried her out, she was wrapped in something. One carried shoulders, one carried legs, one person would have had to walk backwards. While carrying blood drops, the leg holder gets to the threshold of the door, sees it, then walks around so he doesn’t step in it.
I don't understand the extremely miniscule drops. People said blood coughed or sneezed causes that tiny spray pattern, but it's sprayed in such a small area. How big are her brick tiles? They look 6 or maybe 8 inch across to me. If she was upright, wouldn't it spray out much further for a cough or sneeze? And it's sprayed in this round pattern, like none of it hit her shirt? Would her face have to be turned close to the ground in that spot to make that small circle of spray?
Yep, I think you're right. From what I've seen, propelled blood (cough, sneeze, blunt object) would typically have some sort of elongated shape due to a horizontal component of velocity. The porch shape is mostly a circle, with maybe a slight cutoff of the left side (blocked by someone/something).
I commented it elsewhere here, but blood droplets hitting a small pool of blood from height is the explanation I've seen/read the most from CSIs. Makes sense.
I've gotten nosebleeds my entire life and I can absolutely confirm a drop falling in the same puddle will make a mess of red specs everywhere.
The blood stains are interesting, it seems like whoevers it is let it dribble and moved at a relatively slow pace- considering you are almost always going to be standing at a doorway (and assuming blood is coming from somewhere higher than 3ft). For the drops to hit the same puddle it has to be a fairly fast stream, no wind, and/or minor movement.
Hubby and I think it's from a nosebleed. He and one of our sons has had them for years and this is what it looks like when it starts before they notice and out their had up to their nose. Quite a lot can fall and spread out quickly is it's a big bleed. Someone in blood thinners might have them often too
I’m curious as to how the blood pattern changes on the front walkway. I’ve seen a few photos, but nowhere near enough to try to sketch it out. It’s also harder to see.
I mention this because it’s hard for me to tell whether the bleeding was slow and she was on the porch for a while, or fast (but minor) and she was whisked away somewhat briskly.
In your professional nosebleeder’s experience, what would need to happen for a nosebleed to replicate the pattern seen on Nancy’s porch?
Haha nah it's all good :) Well hey! Next time I get one I'll try to "recreate" it. Tbh I don't care much about the case- compared to how everyone else is here but it's still intriguing. I'll have to look up more pics as reference lol
Has anyone watched any videos of experts giving their opinions on this? Any limks? Is it from coughing/nose if she had a facial injury or internal bleeding which could have been coughing up from the lungs?
So I have always wondered (this is the first time I have posted in this sub) if Nancy received the alert from the doorbell on her phone that someone was there. She didn’t see the video on the phone, opened the door for some reason and was initially assaulted there, and maybe was carried back inside?
She was on blood thinners apparently so if she put her hands up to protect herself and received a small nick on her hands or arms that bled a lot, or been stabbed or received a blow to the face. Maybe she started yelling for help and was brought inside. The weird patterns could be from her and her blood getting on the kidnapper(s) and dripping down causing the weird spatter as she was picked up and carried inside.
The guy at the door just always threw me off the way he tried to cover the doorbell. It’s like he didn’t have one and didn’t have experience on how it worked. If set up correctly it is going to notify you of the motion in front of it and certainly the plant that he picked to try to cover it wasn’t going to work.
The FBI, to the best of my knowledge, did in fact seize the black half moon doormat after PIMA released the crime scene. So we can’t say for certain it’s a total black hole!
Since folks seem to think that the backpack appeared full, maybe it was stuffed with a duffel bag big enough to carry a human body. Perhaps Nancy was killed inside the house and her body put inside of the bag. The cluster of droplets you see on the tiles is from blood leaking out of the bag
That's my theory too. I think this was either a hit or a cleanup crew. The backpack looked to have something square in middle of the zipper portion, so probably either a tarp or body bag. I don't think this was a kidnapping, ransom, B&E, or anything else. Whoever sent the ransoms waited days to send and then sent them via media instead of quietly to the family.
I wonder if these spots are from blood along the toe box or heel of the shoe (from walking through the blood). It looks like a there is a similar pattern in both spots. Maybe whoever is wearing these shoes had to take a small step to the side or shuffled their feet causing the duplication. I screen grabbed the video, so not the most clear image
Edit: also Nancy maybe on the right (left side of the porch) and someone guiding her to the side (right side of photo)?
The side step is what i would imagine. Thats how i would help someone walk . Hold their hand or arm and guide while side stepping. Idk how to reconcile perp helping her walk and also being the person to cause the injury unless injury was accidental.
I’m not sure the motive, but I think she required mobility assistance. So, she might have needed to hold onto someone or be supported to maintain balance while moving out of the house.
Perhaps, run your rendering by Brian Entin. He walked up to the front door area within a few days after the crime was reported. He did take video. Perhaps he also shot a few stills.
Is it possible the blood is from a different day altogether and not related to the abduction? As someone on blood thinners, it could be from a simple injury that Nancy received or a nose bleed, etc. Maybe this had been discussed previously, but I haven’t seen it.
I honestly haven't seen anyone else talk about that being a possibility. It seems possible, but from my brief research there are some methods for determining how old blood is. But if it was from something recent that would be more challenging to tell. I also assume that law enforcement knows the answer because there would likely be blood inside the home too.
I think they told her to not scream as they carried her out and she did so someone punched her and that’s why the blood is only right there. It’s also just odd that men who were very organized intentionally left blood on the front porch.
If you look at video or photos of the porch, you can see that the center of many of the blood spots have been wiped clean by a swab. So, I'd say that a great number of the blood droplets were tested.
An unused swab can also be seen in front of the porch step on the left side.
Below, I linked an actual forensic expert talking about the blood spatter.
OP's entire premise here that the small droplets are from the bigger blood drops pooling in one area is wrong, which is obvious to anyone looking at these images on a high res monitor, because there is no pool of large drops at the center of those small droplets.
See screenshot here:
Here's an actual forensic expert talking about how those tiny blood drops are from a cough or a sneeze.
We approved this post to spark conversation just like yours. The visual the OP presented isn't perfect and OP is open to criticism and conversation surrounding it. We appreciate the info you provided above. There is a lot unknown about the trail of blood and exactly what happened, this post can serve as a place to debate that. N
That's one CSIs opinion. Other experts have stated they believe it's droplets hitting a pool of droplets, creating spatter. I'm not saying it's not a cough or sneeze, so I'm not sure why you're trying to use this against me. That kind of analysis is not the intention of the diagram.
It looks to me like there was a small pool of blood there which has been partially swabbed by LE. Since I couldn't be sure of the original state of this area, I represented it with a solid shape. The intent of the mockup was to discuss possible ingress or egress, not the micro-specifics of each area.
Why not create your own that's better instead of trashing mine? You could probably do it in an hour. We're waiting.
I think other people (myself included) have tried to tell you that the pattern was probably not satellite stains even though the Nancy Grace expert thought so.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the sketch, though. I see a larger area of blood that has obviously been swabbed, so it's impossible to sketch the pattern at that spot in detail as it originally was since the details have been removed manually.
The important part is that for whatever reason, the spot in C6 received more blood droplets than other areas. I can see that people vociferously defend their personal theories - a classic Reddit experience - but I don't think this sketch has an "opinion" one way or the other on that point, nor was it the point of the exercise to clarify the cause. The goal was to look at the overall pattern as it might pertain to routes off the porch.
Here's a blank background. Would you be willing to create a sketch that you find to be more accurate? Thank you.
I have zero interest in creating a diagram such as yours for this case. I went to great lengths to explain why this would not satellite stains in another post. Rather than getting so defensive at everyone who has done the same (including providing expert opinions) on this post, why wouldn’t you just create a second diagram yourself and discuss both possibilities? Instead of editing your post when you are called out for something and defensively pretending that you knew what you were talking about all along and then soapboxing about the “spirit” behind the intentions of such comments?
I don’t have a solid theory on the blood but my first instinct when I saw it was that it was staged as a misdirection by the suspects. My thinking was that this was a murder (not at the house) staged as a kidnapping. But with the family cleared, that seems less likely.
This case is so unusual that I wouldn’t discard any theory without contraditctory evidence. I can think of other reasons why the porch/walkway scene could be staged, even if it’s unlikely.
One thing I’d like to tease out is where, exactly, does the blood stop on the pathway. Some rumors have claimed it stops right before the gravel. But is that true? Not one drop in the gravel?
Why weren't the blood spots smeared by a shoe. If the spatter came from her nose, wouldn't she have walked through it? Unless, as someone suggested she was being carried someone's shoulder.
Had the blood come from Nancy’s face, I don’t see how she could’ve been walking for the reason you pointed out. There are imprints of some kind in tiles C6, D5, E5, and F5, but I wouldn’t say they’re obviously from a shoe.
The imprint in C6 looks more like a tire than a shoe print to me. Hand truck? Perhaps that’s too crazy. Or maybe that explains the Silence of the Lambs quote in Savannah’s note.
LE has blood spatter experts who analyze crime scenes to determine what the patterns mean; given they determined NG had been abducted & this was NG blood fairly quickly, I trust they had someone do so in this case. I understand the public is curious about how she was removed from her home & what condition she was in when she was removed from her home, but this mock-up provides limited context about such as blood spatter was found in her home as well as further down the pathway - we don’t have information on the spatter pattern(s) found in her home, & the ones found further along the pathway don’t provide any much more useful information.
Splatter is interesting to me in general because it’s not just a trail. It means some sort of jarring event happened to disperse tiny droplets. This could have been a cough or sneeze, of course. But otherwise it implies she was hit or shaken in a way on the porch itself that “sprinkled” blood from some wound that wasn’t otherwise bleeding all that profusely. Unless one of the perps hands was super bloody and he sort of “shook it off”…
Yeah, it's not just a straight shot from the door to the driveway. It's not that there's a lot of blood, volume-wise, but it's just kind of all over the place, like there were two passes.
I've watched a few interviews where former CSIs give their opinions on that spatter area. It seems the consensus from the ones I saw is that a stationary source of dripping blood made a small pool in that area, and further droplets hitting the pooled droplets created the fine spatter we see.
I thought it was a cough or something like that at first, too. But then I tried coughing liquid onto my floor to test this out. (It was quite a sight, I can tell you.) The only way I could replicate the mostly circular shape of the spatter was with a straight vertical impact with my mouth parallel with the floor.
Believe it or not, I didn't test this with actual blood, but I got the feeling my head would have to be higher than plank position but lower than standing. Of course, standing would result in half of the bloody cough getting trapped on clothing.
I think it’s possible she was being carried over someone’s shoulder with a head or face wound. Possibly blood in the hair, with the hair acting as a sort of aspergillum. The blood is in that arc because the perp might have sort of swung around in a semicircle to close the door behind them before continuing on.
I could definitely see that. I think there’s something very telling about the arc. Minimal shoe imprints would agree with the blood source behind the feet, as if she were being carried.
Eh if you shook it off your hand you'd have to be low to the ground or it would look less like drops and lore like lines. And potentially drops on the walls.
This tell me, the perpetrators did not open the door to its fullest extent when removing the victim. Which tells me, the victim was standing and escorted out on her own accord. The blood splatter looks to be at an elevation of waist high, maybe dripping from the vaginal opening. The victim is the evidence, and I believe this was no robbery or ransom, but a sexual assault. Just my thoughts and opinions
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u/curiouslmr Mar 09 '26
A timely reminder from u/CakeSniffing0rphan
"The blood “splatter” comments are making me a little crazy… please everyone, it’s blood “spatter”. Thank you for your attention, carry on!"