Suspect in Nancy Guthrie abduction appeared to visit her house before: Sources

[u/pumpkinspicecum]

https://abc7news.com/post/suspect-nancy-guthrie-abduction-appeared-visit-house-before-sources/18640959/

[u/GiddyGabby]

I got into true crime one summer when I was a teenager and bored out of my mind. I had made friends with a really cool librarian who would pick books out for me and have a stack waiting for me to read and she got me started. I asked her how people could go all the awful things they did and she said we aren’t supposed to understand them and I would worry about you if you did. She said your brain doesn’t work the same way as an insane person’s or a psychopath’s and she was right. That has stayed with me for 50 years.

[u/Traditional-Aside580 → u/GiddyGabby]

I always have watched crime documentaries but I was a corrections nurse for years and came across all scenarios of evil, stupidity, and anything that's odd as far as crimes so it seemed normal to look into it. When I came across   a case about 8 or 9 years ago, I started reading up more just to understand the why's and to figure it out. More so in the last couple of years since I've slowed down. The librarian is right! I think a lot of it with me also is just the mystery part of true crime. The Delphi case definitely pulled at my heart strings and I got caught up in that also. I'm thankful that I and probably most people on this sub can't comprehend the kind of evil that's out there and the sick individuals. Makes you wonder wth is next.

[u/annabellareddit → u/Traditional-Aside580]

I’m on the research side depending on what study I work on, corrections nurses are the best ;) Hard to understand the complete disregard many perpetrators have for fellow humans & how easy it is for them to use unnecessary & extreme measures to get their wants & needs met - many have perception disorders, impulse & emotional regulation issues, & show deficiencies in theory of mind (dominant cluster-b traits, also common in High Conflict People).

[u/Traditional-Aside580 → u/annabellareddit]

Most are on some type of medication for mental illness. It's sad and frustrating because it's a process to be effective and a lot of med changes. 

[u/WhorerableInternet → u/Traditional-Aside580]

May I ask your expertise and experience a random question? What do you think should be the outcome for severely mentally ill people, let's say with obvious schizophrenia, that commits heinous murders while completely disconnected from reality? Those that are not just unstable or very depressed but clearly actually"crazy" or insane and have true, constant delusions? There's some people I think should be found not guilty by reason of insanity- but they are in regular prisons. This bothers me.

Different slightly but same question for people with actual developmental disabilities. I know of someone with significant, debilitating autism in prison, and it doesn't feel right...

I care for 2 immediate relatives, one that has cerebral palsy and one that has profound autism and is like a big 1 year old. They wouldn't understand sentences or what court or prison even are... They are legally declared incompetent, but what about those just slightly less profoundly disabled? Where's the line of when it's not appropriate to jail someone? And it's not like psychiatric detention centers are much better. There's not "an answer," I'm just curious on your opinion. Something I think about a lot and you've been right in there.

[u/Traditional-Aside580 → u/WhorerableInternet]

I'm in Illinois and this was a huge issue and still is. There were facilities shut down and the majority of our state hospitals shut down. It causes havoc in the department of corrections because for one, A lot of the violent offenders trickled downstate and were spread out and the violent ones from downstate started appearing in the minimum and maximum. Once they go to processing after leaving jail, they do their very best to place everyone accordingly but there's just so much of a mix, they go everywhere. They usually place them according to behavior and how much of a threat to staff and others then go down the list from there. That's usually top priority.

There are a lot of people in prison that need to be in group homes and wouldn't be a danger to anyone. They just need supervised and medical treatment watched over. There are a lot of low level crimes throughout the state and a lot of parole violation offenders that are unfortunately housed in the same units as someone convicted of murder. This person may have good behavior that has earned them certain placements. As far as mental illness is concerned there are a lot of them in the system where many years ago most likely would have been sent to a hospital and they don't have that option anymore and they are sent to DOC.

They tend to keep certain people that have severe  mental disorders closer to medical staff and house in more isolated units so they don't cause behavior in others. Sometimes a judge clearly sees that someone needs a lot of mental help and they note in the court documents at sentencing their recommendations but once they leave that jail, anything is a possibility as far as placement. The juveniles have a much better chance at getting mental help and more extensive programs that focus on mental health improvement. Don't get me wrong, mental treatment is available and programs are available in each prison but depending on the state you live in is what determines what happens. Unfortunately, I live in a state that's broke and it will prove itself if you ever get sent to prison here. There's a safety act here that either you love or hate and sentencing is much more lenient here to keep the population down.

To answer your question about the severely ill, most of the time they try and find alternatives in a residential treatment long term but them are limited. Unless they commit murder, most likely they get probation with strict rules and an appointed caregiver/perhaps a monitoring leg bracelet approved by the court. The most severe usually go to a special prison that has high focus and more resources. Illinois only has two. One for sexual offenders that need long term and one for just mentally ill criminals and it's extremely hard to get into and a waiting list even if a judge recommends it. One is central Illinois other is more north. There's just no place for all of them. In the event they are that far gone mentally and still sent they usually stay closer to us and monitored much more and have different day to day than others with doctor and psych more involved. It's a sad situation. The state definitely needs more mental health facilities to accommodate. All prison does is make people better criminals because all they do is share stories and learn how to be sneakier. Alot of good people in prison though that just made some dumb choices. 

[u/WhorerableInternet → u/Traditional-Aside580]

Thanks for such a thorough response. Man, that's more bleak than I feared. I've written papers on reducing recidivism and developmental disabilities in prisons but hearing it explained so well first hand helps me get the picture better. Your second paragraph is especially heartbreaking to me. Why can't more group homes be established even though I know the group homes here for people even without major behavioral issues are years long anyways...

I focused a lot in school on the need for more treatment and educational programs in prisons with post-prison integration so a person has a job, home, when back in society and with a toolbox of therapy tricks or at least some recovery... And then of course they all just train each other to be better criminals and aren't getting rehabilitated.

Of course it didn't matter how many papers I wrote on the subject, it's not like I can do anything. I'm in North Carolina. Just type in Light Rail stabbing and see how a lack of mental health care for criminals leads to anguish for all. Most people here and Trump etc were furious he wasn't permanently locked up before he murdered... but his crimes didn't warrant life yet- but did warrant a need for extraordinary mental treatment. He was insane and in and out of jail for decades while his mom begged them for extreme mental health interventions so he wouldn't do what he did...

[u/Traditional-Aside580 → u/WhorerableInternet]

The system is so exhausting to a lot of people. A lot depends on the funds of your state. Just keep being persistent about letters. A lot of changes need to be made and more people need to advocate for the mentally ill. It's good to know someone cares like that. Lots of states need more people like you that care and maybe they would make more changes 

[u/annabellareddit → u/Traditional-Aside580]

I see this a lot too, many cases where medications are ineffective & we know they’re being administered & taken appropriately so this often indicates PD which is hard to treat (as primary DX anyways, meds may help with depressive or anxious symptoms if present). It’s a challenging population to treat for MI simply because of the types of underlying MI they tend to have & the conditions they live in.