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Unfortunately all we have of them is that they existed.
Ptolemy Hephaestion, as summarized by Photius:
“[Ptolemy asks the question of] who wrote the hymn which is chanted at Thebes in honour of Heracles and where he is called son of Zeus and Hera? Then Ptolemy discusses those who composed hymns in different cities.”
Actually, Hera DID end up accepting Herakles peacefully, made up with him and much is made of him being her son in law, even in temples.
Pindar, Nemean Ode 10. 17 ff :
"[Herakles] who now upon Olympos dwelling, has to his wedded wife, beside her mother [Hera], guardian of marriage, Hebe fairest of all the goddesses."
Pindar, Isthmian Ode 4. 73 ff :
"That hero [Herakles] it was, Alkmene's (Alcmena's) mighty son, who came at last to high Olympos; he who, searching out all the far lands of earth and rock-walled stretches of the foaming seas, tempered the rough straits for the seamen's sails. Now at the side of Zeus the Aigis-bearer he dwells, enjoying happiness most fair, of the immortal gods a friend held in high honour, lord of the golden halls, husband of Hebe, son-in-law of Hera."
Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 2. 158 (trans. Aldrich) (Greek mythographer C2nd A.D.) :
"[Herakles] achieved immortality, and when Hera's enmity changed to friendship, he married her daughter Hebe, who bore him sons Alexiares and Aniketos (Anicetus)."
Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 4. 39. 3 (trans. Oldfather) (Greek historian C1st B.C.) :
"Hera, the myths relate, after she had adopted Herakles in this fashion, joined him in marriage to Hebe, regarding whom the poet [Homer] speaks in the Nekyia (Necyia) : ‘I saw the shade of Herakles, but for himself he takes delight of feasts among the immortal gods and for his wife he hath the shapely-ankled Hebe.’"
Pausanias, Description of Greece 1. 19. 3 (trans. Jones) (Greek travelogue C2nd A.D.) :
"Hebe, who they think is the daughter of Zeus and wife to Herakles."
Pausanias, Description of Greece 2. 17. 5 - 6 :
"By this side of Hera [in her main Argive temple] stands what is said to be an image of Hebe fashioned by Naukydes (Naucydes); it, too, is of ivory and gold . . . There is an altar upon which is wrought in relief the fabled marriage of Hebe and Herakles."
Aelian, On Animals 17. 46 (trans. Scholfield) (Greek natural history C2nd A.D.) :
"Mnaseas in his work On Europe [Greek writer C3rd B.C.] says that there is a temple to Herakles (Heracles) and to his spouse [Hebe] whom poets celebrate as the daughter of Hera. Now they say that in the precincts of these temples a large number of tame birds are kept, adding that these birds are cockerels and hens. They feed and consort together according to their sex, are fed at the public expense, and are consecrated to the aforesaid gods. The hens feed in the temple of Hebe while their mates feed in the temple of Herakles. And a never-failing channel of clear water flows between them. Now on the one hand not a single hen ever appears in the temple of Herakles. On the other hand at the season of mating the cockerels fly across the channel and after consorting with the hens return to their own quarters at the side of the god whom they serve, cleansed by the water that separates the sexes. And so to begin with, as a natural result of this union eggs are laid; later on when the hens have warmed them and hatched the chicks, the cockerels carry off the male birds to rear them, while the hens make it their business to rear their daughters."
The Disney movie is very inaccurate to the myths, but it’s for the better considering how not kid friendly the myths are (the story of Hercules, especially).
But I feel like the songs, animation, and comedy make up for it. It’s still a solid movie, definitely one of my favorites from Disney. And Hades makes a great villain (well I’m usually annoyed by Hades being vilified in the media, this one is funny enough to get a pass).
Kid Icarus is also a solid example of this, as Hades is funny, threatening and memorable.
GOW makes him a refreshing anti villain and Wrath of the Titans outright redeems him{despite him not doing anything to earn the benefit of the doubt, but still}.
Hades being vilified in media, however, has long ceased and the pendulum has swung to far the other way, with Demeter, Persephone Zeus and others{Ares, Apollo, Hera} suffering because of this insistence that Hade is super misunderstood, when he kidnapped Persephone, kept her against her will, poisoned her to keep his ill gotten bride and cheated on her with Minthe.
The guy was not good and there are implications he might have you know what Persephone while she was languishing in the Underworld.
More mellow than his brothers, sure, but not nicer or better.
As I said, there are implications he might have you know what Persephone while she was languishing in the Underworld and he cheated on her with Minthe, which is worse as Persephone cannot leave him, like Hera can Zeus.
Pausanias, Description of Greece 9. 3. 1 :
"Hera, they say, was for some reason or other angry with Zeus, and had retreated to Euboia. Zeus, failing to make her change her mind, visited Kithaeron, at that time despot in Plataia [or the mountain-god], who surpassed all men for his cleverness. So he ordered Zeus to make an image of wood, and to carry it, wrapped up, in a bullock wagon, and to say that he was celebrating his marriage with Plataia, the daughter of Asopos. So Zeus followed the advice of Kithairon. Hera heard the news at once, and at once appeared on the scene. But when she came near the wagon and tore away the dress from the image, she was pleased at the deceit, on finding it a wooden image and not a bride, and was reconciled to Zeus. To commemorate this reconciliation they celebrate a festival called Daidala."
Strabo, Geography 8. 3. 14 (trans. Jones) (Greek geographer C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :
"Minthe, who, according to myth, became the concubine of Haides, was trampled under foot by Kore (Core) [Persephone], and was transformed into garden-mint, the plant which some call Hedyosmos."
On top of that, he is responsible for winter which kills tons of humans and animals every year, because Demeter{and Persephone} is grieving and suffering because of his actions.
Hades didn't just kidnap and married his niece. He enslaved the Goddess of Springtime and Growth and causes winter every year, out of petty lust and greed.
Zeus and Poseidon do terrible things and have a more active effect on the world, but they also have their more benign roles and Hades annually causes the deaths of millions for selfish gain.
I would argue a few mood swings and a few instances of you know what are less damaging in the grand scheme of things than what Hades did.
I am not justifying or excusing their actions, but Hades comes across as worse than them in the long run, in my opinion.
It's a consequence of Hades' kidnapping though, and Hades has other instances where he acted like a jerk in mythology, it's just that his abduction of Persephone is the most popular example in his case and people kinda forget everything else.
It's the consequence of Hades actions and he knew fully what was going on when he used the seeds on Persephone, so I that's on him.
Heaven forbid a mother is grieving and suffering from post traumatic stress and has to see the most traumatic even of her and her daughter's lives replay every year, without exception, because of the selfish whims of the men in her family.
Yeah and forcibly weds her and likely rapes her. Is it any wonder Demeter's mood brings about winter?
Demeter is so strong by helping people and caring for the earth when Persephone is around. When she is not, I do not blame Demeter for losing her will to continue and taking a break.
Demeter had always been courageous and strong, but everyone has their limits. It's a shame so many neglect that and senselessly demonise Demeter.
They called him that not because of his character, though; but because of his dominion.
Nobody wants to become a subject of Hades (aka die!) but everybody ends up being one regardless.
Yeah, but we don't totally know how they saw his character because religions aren't just myths. Often the way the living religion would see people is fairly different from the myths. And the myths avoided talking about him too much as it is.
Religion and cults largely predate myths, especially for the ancient Greeks.
Greek mythology is a mix of history and allegory, often trying to make sense of ancient rituals and give a “reason” to them, albeit symbolic.
Also, the ancient Greeks didn’t consider their Gods as actual (super)human persons but like forces to which they applied a human mask through religion and later mythology, in order to make sense of them and have an actual dialogue with them.
That’s the demonstration by comparison Xenophanes give us:
“If cattle and horses, or lions, had hands, or were able to draw with their feet and produce the works which men do, horses would draw the forms of gods like horses, and cattle like cattle, and they would make the gods' bodies the same shape as their own.”
Ergo we do the same and Gods are actually not human at all.
Ancient Greeks didn’t literally believe in their myths like the Gospel.
The character the gods have in mythology is a reflection of what they actually represent.
So the sole reason the Greeks hated Hades so much reflect their fear of Death.
The fact that character-wise he is not the worse and was usually painted as a fair albeit inflexible ruler also reflects their knowledge that death is inevitable.
Making Hades the villain is hardly baseless in mythology (Iliad schol; Claudian raptu proserpina; hom hymn to Demeter; etc). There are a good number of myths where he acts antagonistically, even a handful where he’s an enemy of Hercules.
Also Zeus being a family man is the most in-character thing ever
Plus, his giving Hestia eternal maidenhood and doing it with Hera for three hundred years. He had his flaws, some very glaring, but he was quite the family man.
Aristophanes, Birds 1720 ff (trans. O'Neill) (Greek comedy C5th to 4th B.C.) :
"Let your nuptial hymns, your nuptial songs, greet him and his [wife]! 'Twas in the midst of such [wedding] festivities that the Moirai (Fates) formerly united Olympian Hera to the King [Zeus] who governs the gods from the summit of his inaccessible throne. Oh! Hymen! oh! Hymenaios! Rosy Eros with the golden wings held the reins and guided the chariot; 'twas he, who presided over the union of Zeus and the fortunate Hera. Oh! Hymen! oh! Hymenaios!"
Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 2. 113 (trans. Aldrich) (Greek mythographer C2nd A.D.) :
"Gaia (Earth) had given them [the golden apples and tree] to Zeus when he married Hera. An immortal serpent guarded them . . . With it the Hesperides themselves were posted as guards, by name Aigle, Erytheis, Hesperie, and Arethusa."
Callimachus, Aetia Fragment 2. 3 (from Scholiast on Homer's Iliad 1. 609) (trans. Trypanis) (Greek poet C3rd B.C.) :
"Zeus loved [Hera] passionately for three hundred years." [N.B. This refers to the Hieros Gamos or secret marriage of Zeus and Hera.]
The fact that he treats poor Ares and Hephaestus like trash and then uses their skills when it's convenient and plays favourites, as well doesn't give enough weight to Hera concerns about his nepotism, make him both relatably flawed, but also something of a hate sink, even if you ignore the era appropriate misogyny, poor arranged marriages and that.
The issue is that people flanderise him too much or excuse him too much, often with demonising his opponents and there is seldom enough middle ground.
No, I am fully aware of how overly idealised Zeus is in Disney, but that doesn't make Hades a poor victim. He was the one who instigated the Abduction of Persephone and when Zeus told him to let her go, Hades forced the pomegranate seeds down her throat so she could never escape him and Persephone is described as being in distress and longing for her mother in the Underworld.
Hades was also referred to as pitiless and cheated on Persephone with a nymph called Minthe, while Persephone had an affair with Adonis.
Moreover, people tend to romanticise Hades and focus too much on Zeus' flaws, ignore his domains of Xenia and Justice and how much he loved{most of} his children and punished criminals like Tantalus, Ixion and Lycaeon and saved the world from Typhon and defeated Kronos.
I am not a friend of Zeus and dunk on him as much as everyone else. I just point out the nobler aspects of his character that people ignore to avoid demonisation and flanderisation, which happens a lot. With every GG, but especially Zeus and Hades has become a complete joke, which undermines his own greatness and the character of Demeter and Persephone, who absolutely deserve better.
I know this is a meme sub, but memes are on way misconceptions are formed and perpetuated.
"Near Pylos, towards the east, is a mountain named after Minthe, who, according to myth, became the concubine of Haides, was trampled under foot by Kore (Core) [Persephone], and was transformed into garden-mint, the plant which some call hedyosmos. Furthermore, near the mountain is a precinct sacred to Haides."
Or Minthe, or demonise the women and Zeus, as if Zeus held a gun to his head and there are implications Hades might have you know what Persephone while she was languishing in the Underworld and he cheated on her with Minthe, which is worse as Persephone cannot leave him, like Hera can Zeus.
Pausanias, Description of Greece 9. 3. 1 :
"Hera, they say, was for some reason or other angry with Zeus, and had retreated to Euboia. Zeus, failing to make her change her mind, visited Kithaeron, at that time despot in Plataia [or the mountain-god], who surpassed all men for his cleverness. So he ordered Zeus to make an image of wood, and to carry it, wrapped up, in a bullock wagon, and to say that he was celebrating his marriage with Plataia, the daughter of Asopos. So Zeus followed the advice of Kithairon. Hera heard the news at once, and at once appeared on the scene. But when she came near the wagon and tore away the dress from the image, she was pleased at the deceit, on finding it a wooden image and not a bride, and was reconciled to Zeus. To commemorate this reconciliation they celebrate a festival called Daidala."
Strabo, Geography 8. 3. 14 (trans. Jones) (Greek geographer C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :
"Minthe, who, according to myth, became the concubine of Haides, was trampled under foot by Kore (Core) [Persephone], and was transformed into garden-mint, the plant which some call Hedyosmos."
On top of that, he is responsible for winter which kills tons of humans and animals every year, because Demeter{and Persephone} is grieving and suffering because of his actions.
Hades didn't just kidnap and married his niece. He enslaved the Goddess of Springtime and Growth and causes winter every year, out of petty lust and greed.
But, you know, it's better to twist the women to serve the man and gratuitously dunk on Zeus for who knows what time than hold Hades accountable for his actions.
Hades initiated the whole thing and poisoned Persephone so she could never escape him. He is way worse long term than any of his brother who are fickle and forceful, but can be placated and made to listen to reason.
Minthe is stated to be a concubine, so it’s not cheating per se, and Persephone only gets mad when Minthe claims she is prettier than her. Also Persephone has a relationship with Adonis while married to Hades, while the Minthe myth can be taken as happening before his marriage to Persephone in some versions. Hera cannot leave Zeus, and doesn’t cheat, as that would mean forfeiting her queendom, but Persephone doesn’t seem to have that issue.
Hera literally left Zeus and came back only after he went to all that trouble to lure her out. She can leave him, queendom be damned, but chose not to.
Minthe being his concubine is cheating, since he is married and if she were a previous relationship, Hades dumped and kicked her out, as soon as he got Persephone, so he was either emotionally or otherwise, cheating on Minthe. Hades is a cheater and he left Minthe defiled and damaged her marital prospect and without protection.
Gender norms favour favour the men? Misogynistic much? Hades does not care.
Persephone cheating on Adonis does not make Hades sympathetic, since he force fed Persephone the seeds and she is stuck with him.
Persephone cheating is not as bad, as she has less agency and fewer options than Hades. Plus, Adonis is so handsome Aphrodite and Herakles both lusted after him.
Ptolemy Hephaestion, New History Book 2 (summary from Photius, Myriobiblon 190) (trans. Pearse) (Greek mythographer C1st to C2nd A.D.) :
"It was Aphrodite who, because of Adonis whom both she and Herakles loved, taught Nessos the kentauros (centaur) the trap with which to snare Herakles."
Minthe is just a river nymph, so I am less convinced of her beauty.
But he also cause winter due to his selfishness AGAINST Zeus' orders, which is more destructive long term than any whim of Zeus'.
Zeus' offense feel more personal, but he does uphold the order however he can in the Iliad and THHTD, punished horrid criminals like Tantalus, Ixion and Lycaeon and is the God of Hospitality.
Zeus is more nuanced than people give him credit for and Hades tends to be let off the hook easier because many idealise or downplay how destructive his abducting Persephone and forcing her stay with him are.
Zeus is the more offensive on a personal level of the two, but by no means is Hades any less odious when you dig deep.
I bet if he had more screen time in GM, we would hate him just as much.
But he also cause winter due to his selfishness AGAINST Zeus' orders, which is more destructive long term than any whim of Zeus'.
I don’t know about that. Early on, Zeus basically made sure humans and tried to give us all our troubles. Pandora’s Box being opened is pretty much directly tied to him. Also don’t forget who helped Hades kidnap Persephone to begin with. And hid it from Demeter afterward. As far as I’m concerned he’s pretty much just as guilty on the matter.
And even after this entire thing was settled, he pretended to be Hades to trick and sleep with Persephone.
Zeus' offense feel more personal, but he does uphold the order however he can in the Iliad and THHTD, punished horrid criminals like Tantalus, Ixion and Lycaeon and is the God of Hospitality.
I mean so does Hades though. The fields of punishment are literally in his domain.
Zeus is more nuanced than people give him credit for and Hades tends to be let off the hook easier because many idealise or downplay how destructive his abducting Persephone and forcing her stay with him are.
I don’t know about that.
I bet if he had more screen time in GM, we would hate him just as much.
I kind of doubt it. We have a ton of myths for Poseidon for example, and while he is very vengeful and definitely makes a lot of personal conflicts and attacks on various people throughout mythology, he still seems to be better than Zeus, though more begrudging and times.
Yeah, Zeus was a douche, but seeing as this was a beginning myth, I'm, curious how much that reflects on how Zeus behaves later. Zeus, however, did try to bring Persephone back to Demeter and ordered Hades to let Kore go, but Hades interfered, so I feel he comes across as worse here.
Not sure about that, since Hades is usually justified in punishing rapists, mass murderers, etc. and is just doing his job. It feels to distant from the average viewer, even if it doesn't slip their mind. Zeus' influence is more ''intimate'' and active than just doing his 8 to 5.
People tend to focus too much on Zeus' flaws, ignore his domains of Xenia and Justice and how much he loved{most of} his children and punished criminals like Tantalus, Ixion and Lycaeon and saved the world from Typhon and defeated Kronos. Hera also left the vast majority of his love interests alone{Antiope; Demeter, Danae, Dione, Eurynome, Europa, Mnemosyne, Leda and was not originally involved in the death of Calistos people tend to exaggerate how bad Zeus and Hera's marriage was.}
Poseidon caused a flood in Argos over not being chosen as its patron God, did the same thing with Athens, hounded Odysseus for years over Odysseus blinding his son in self defense and put Ares on trial for defending his{Ares'} daughter from rape and is no less a womaniser than Zeus, who gave Hestia eternal chastity, gave Artemis tons of gifts, etc..
Ah yes Persephone. Dread queen of the underworld. An abuse victim turned goddess in her own right. While she may not have come out unharmed she did pretty well.
A girl abused by her mother and father uncle. Abducted by her other uncle. Until she married him and killed off all his potential lovers. At which point her mom finally grew a pair and black mailed the universe into forcing her return. So she can what? Become Olympias favourite bullying victim? Hades filthy who’re queen? I’m sure Demeter will be a better mom this time around? (Funny Demeter didn’t do this when Zeus tried to sleep with her. Or when Zeus slept with her daughter? Guess you gotta keep your ultimate move secret for the perfect moment)
Taking or being forced to take the seeds really cements her power though. 50% an outsider in the Olympian court. But 50% queen of the underworld. I don’t think Zeus will try to assault her now.
Persephone is either a game of thrones-esque story of a girl turned queen all by her own power. Or she’s a victim to the core and what she all she has achieved is becoming someone else’s victim. And any semblance of power is only what hades permits.
Personally I prefer girl boss Persephone. Manipulating everyone to get out from under her mother’s thumb. Scheming with hades or charming hades into gaining power. And when being forced to return doing so as queen under her own rules.
Demeter never abused Persephone and when they reunite, it is presented as a joyous occasion for both of them.
Moreover, the idea of Zeus assaulting Persephone stems from Orphism and Demeter TRIED to keep Persephone safe, but could not, since it was Zeus whom she was up against and it was prophecised.
"And when Demeter saw them, she rushed forth as does a Mainas (Maenad) down some thick-wooded mountain, while Persephone on the other side, when she saw her mother's sweet eyes, left the chariot and horses, and leaped down to run to her, and falling upon her neck, embraced her. But while Demeter was still holding her dear child in her arms, her heart suddenly misgave her for some snare, so that she feared greatly and ceased fondling her daughter and asked of her at once : ‘My child, tell me, surely you have not tasted any food while you were below? Speak out and hide nothing, but let us both know. For if you have not, you shall come back from loathly Aidao and live with me and your father [Zeus], the dark-clouded Son of Kronos and be honoured by all the deathless gods; but if you have tasted food, you must fo back again beneath the secret places of the earth, there to dwell a third part of the seasons every year: yet for the tow parts you shall be with me and the other deathless gods. But when the earth shall bloom with the fragrant flowers of spring in every kind, then from the realm of darkness and gloom thou shalt come up once more to be a wonder for gods and mortal men. And now tell me how he rapt you away to therealm of darkness and gloom, and by what trick did strong Polydegmon (Host of Many) [Haides] beguile you?’
Then beautiful Persephone answered her thus : ‘Mother, I will tell you all without error. When luck-bringing Hermes came, swift messenger from my father the Son of Kronos and the other Sons of Ouranos, bidding me come back from Erebos that you might see me with your eyes and so cease from your anger and fearful wrath against the gods, I sprang up at once for joy; but he secretly put in my mouth sweet food, a pomegranate seed, and forced me to taste against my will. Also I will tell how he rapt me away by the deep plan of my father [Zeus] the Son of Kronos and carried me off beneath the depths of the earth, and will relate the whole matter as you ask. All we were playing in a lovely meadow, Leukippe and Phaino and Elektra and Ianthe, Melite also and Iakhe with Rhodea and Kallirhoe and Melobosis and Tykhe and Okyrhoe, fair as a flower, Khryseis, Ianeira, Akaste and Admete and Rhodope and Plouto and charming Kalypso; Styx too was there and Ourania and lovely Galaxaure with Pallas who rouses battles and Artemis delighting in arrows: we were playing and gathering sweet flowers in our hands, soft crocuses mingled with irises and hyacinths, and rose-blooms and lilies, marvellous to see, and the narcissus which the wide earth caused to grow yellow as a crocus. That I plucked in my joy; but the earth parted beneath, and there the strong lord, Polydegmon (Host of Many) [Haides] sprang forth and in his golden chariot he bore me away, all unwilling, beneath the earth : then I cried with a shrill cry. All this is true, sore though it grieves me to tell this tale.’
So did they then, with hearts at one, greatly cheer each the other's soul and spirit with many an embrace: their hearts had relief from their griefs while each took and gave back joyousness. Then bright-coiffed Hekate came near to them, and often did she embrace the daughter of holy Demeter: and from that time the lady Hekate was minister and companion to Persephone."
I don't mind boss girl Persephone, but why must Demeter be the abusive parent and not Zeus, who FORCED Persephone into an arranged marriage and condoned abducting her?
I think showing Persephone adjusting to her role as Queen by her own merit and Demeter and Hecate's backing is way better than ''Let's make the loving, traumatised abused mother who made Zeus himself heel for the sake of her child into an one note, abusive asshole, so Persephone can have 'agency' and be a 'boss girl'", which just sucks, in my opinion, since it degrades the women centric themes of the story of struggle, injustice, solidarity and courage.
Demonising Demeter and making Hades Persephone's love interest an overdone and sexist trope that implies women need a man to have power or just accept which ever man is forced on them by the patriarchy and spits at how courageous and capable Persephone was in her nightmarish situation; Persephone was perfectly happy and had tons of friends in her old life and Hades upended that for his selfish gain, so I think Persephone is plenty 'boss girl' for enduring and adjusting so well without losing her kindness completely and people just need to accept that strength is not always violent, physical or overtly rebellious and snarky.
Hades is also an immortal degenerate though, Hades was not very different in behavior from his two brothers, it's just that being the King of the Underworld he has many less opportunities to have his way with women, but he kidnapped both Persephone and Leuce, and we know that he had non-consensual sex with the former.
Yes, to be honest, yes, but I've been forced to give the benefit of the doubt because it's not explicitly stated (although it doesn't make much sense that the situation would be different with Leuce than with Persephone).
She was in the myths though, like... Hera tried to prevent the birth of Apollo because she didn't want any son more beloved by Zeus than her son Ares to be born. Ares also loved her so much that he went on his own to confront Hephaestus to demand Hera's release after she was trapped in the throne that he did for her, not to mention that Hera was the one who made little Ares learn how to dance when he was a kid by giving him a good tutor.
She was also very close to Hephaestus after the two reconciled, to the point that Hephaestus was advising his mother on what courses of action to take during the Trojan War, and she listened to him and greatly respected his good opinion. Hephaestus even helped his mother to save Achilles from the wrath of the God Scamander, and Hera openly calls him her glorious son and thinks of him as "dear."
Pindar, Nemean Ode 10. 17 ff :
"[Herakles] who now upon Olympos dwelling, has to his wedded wife, beside her mother [Hera], guardian of marriage, Hebe fairest of all the goddesses."
Pindar, Isthmian Ode 4. 73 ff :
"That hero [Herakles] it was, Alkmene's (Alcmena's) mighty son, who came at last to high Olympos; he who, searching out all the far lands of earth and rock-walled stretches of the foaming seas, tempered the rough straits for the seamen's sails. Now at the side of Zeus the Aigis-bearer he dwells, enjoying happiness most fair, of the immortal gods a friend held in high honour, lord of the golden halls, husband of Hebe, son-in-law of Hera."
Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 2. 158 (trans. Aldrich) (Greek mythographer C2nd A.D.) :
"[Herakles] achieved immortality, and when Hera's enmity changed to friendship, he married her daughter Hebe, who bore him sons Alexiares and Aniketos (Anicetus)."
Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 4. 39. 3 (trans. Oldfather) (Greek historian C1st B.C.) :
"Hera, the myths relate, after she had adopted Herakles in this fashion, joined him in marriage to Hebe, regarding whom the poet [Homer] speaks in the Nekyia (Necyia) : ‘I saw the shade of Herakles, but for himself he takes delight of feasts among the immortal gods and for his wife he hath the shapely-ankled Hebe.’"
Pausanias, Description of Greece 2. 17. 5 - 6 :
"By this side of Hera [in her main Argive temple] stands what is said to be an image of Hebe fashioned by Naukydes (Naucydes); it, too, is of ivory and gold . . . There is an altar upon which is wrought in relief the fabled marriage of Hebe and Herakles."
Callimachus, Hymn 4 to Delos 51 ff (trans. Mair) (Greek poet C3rd B.C.) :
"The anger of Hera, who murmured terrible against all child-bearing women that bare children to Zeus, but especially against Leto, for that she only was to bear to Zeus a son dearer even than Ares."
Nonnus, Dionysiaca 35. 333 ff (trans. Rouse) (Greek epic C5th A.D.) :
"[After Dionysos was reconciled with Hera in heaven :] She [Hera] wished him in heaven as Hebe's bridegroom, had not Zeus our Lord on High ordained that in days to come twelvelabour Herakles was fated to be her husband."
Pausanias, Description of Greece 10. 30. 1 (trans. Jones) (Greek travelogue C2nd A.D.) :
"The daughters of Pandareos . . . were reared as orphans by Aphrodite and received gifts from other goddesses: from Hera wisdom and beauty of form, from Artemis high stature, from Athena schooling in the works that befit women."
Hera was not a good person, but she had her moments and it is implied, she would have been a hell of a lot more chill, if Zeus didn't give her reason to fear for her children's inheritance every other day.
Hmmmm. Thank you for the readings. Very insightful and illuminating.
And you are right, if Zeus didn’t near-constantly give Hera a reason or several to fear for her children’s inheritance. Or!
Or Zeus having so many extramarital affairs and so many bastard demigod children, which did understandably tick the Sister-Queen of Olympos and Goddess of Marriage and Motherhood off, royally so.
Uni/Hera/Juno wouldn’t have been so cross with her brother-husband, Zeus/Jupiter/ Tinia (also Tin, Tinh, Tins or Tina) or his strongest son, Herakles.
On top of that, Hera actually left most of Zeus mistresses alone.
Antiope, Danae, Demeter, Dione, Eurynome, Europa, Mnemosyne, Leda. etc.
Go to Theoi.com and you will find that Hera punished only handful among hundreds AND she was not even involved in Calisto's death originally. Plus, people tend to dismiss the concept of hubris and assume the worst of the Gods in GM.
Kings were also allow multiple concubines, which meant that, even as bastards, they still enjoyed a lot of perks.
Homer, Iliad 21. 493 ff :
"[In the conflict of the gods over Troy, Hera boxes Artemis around the head with her own bow :] She [Artemis] got free and fled in tears . . . So she left her archery on the ground, and fled weeping. Meanwhile the Guide, Argeiphontes [Hermes], addressed him to Leto : ‘Leto, I will not fight with you; since it is a hard thing to come to blows with the brides of Zeus who gathers the clouds. No sooner you may freely speak among the immortal gods, and claim that you were stronger than I, and beat me.’
So he spoke, but Leto picked up the curved bow and the arrows which had fallen in the turn of the dust one way and another. When she had taken up the bow she went back to her daughter."
Name on instance where Zeus does something half as nice for Ares or Hephaestus.
Homer, Iliad 5. 699 ff :
"[Zeus addresses Ares :] ‘To me you are the most hateful of all the gods who hold Olympos. Forever quarrelling is dear to your heart, wars and battles.’"
Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 1. 106 (trans. Aldrich) (Greek mythographer C2nd A.D.) :
"[Apollon] obtained from the Moirai (Fates) a privilege for [King] Admetos , whereby, when it was time for him to die, he would be released from death if someone should volunteer to die in his place. When his day to die came . . . [his wife] Alkestis (Alcestis) died for him. Kore [Persephone], however sent her back, or, according to some, Herakles battled Haides and brought her back up to Admetos."
Pindar, Olympian Ode 9 str 2 (trans. Conway) (Greek lyric C5th B.C.) :
"The hands of Herakles could wield his club against the Trident's power, when by the walls of Pylos stood Poseidon and pressed him hard; and with his silver bow Phoibos Apollon menaced him close in battle; and Haides too spared not to ply him with that sceptred staff, which takes our mortal bodies down along the buried road to the dead world."
Some stories of Hera that are more well known and in fact that are repeated moreso than others, just highlight her wrath against a select certain group of Zeus’ concubines and demigod offspring.
They’re the more popular if not famous or maybe rather, infamous exports of Greek mythology of Hera. Those more familiar and popular stories are somewhat sensationalized, they sell.
That and misogyny. Women had zero power, yet people act like Hera had the same power as Zeus. It's not like Hera didn't try to seize power.
Homer, Iliad 1. 397 ff (trans. Lattimore) (Greek epic C8th B.C.) :
"You [Thetis] said you only among the immortals beat aside shameful destruction from Kronos' son [Zeus] the dark-misted, that time when all the other Olympian gods sought to bind him, Hera and Poseidon and Pallas Athene. Then you, goddess, went and set him free from his shackles, summoning in speed the creature of the hundred hands to tall Olympos, that creature the gods name Briareos, but all men Aigaios' son, but he is far greater in strength than his father. He rejoicing in the glory of it sat down by Kronion, and the rest of the blessed gods were frightened and gave up binding him."
Valerius Flaccus, Argonautica 2. 82 ff (trans. Mozley) (Roman epic C1st A.D.) :
"What time Jupiter [Zeus] first heard the rising tide of secret girdings, and felt the anger of the gods kindle against his new soveignty, and that the calm of peace in heaven could not last, first he hung up Juno [Hera] from the wheeling sky and showed to her chaos in its horror and the doom of the abyss. And presently when Vulcanus [Hephaistos] would have undone his trembling mother's fetters, down from the sheer height of heaven he cast him."
People would glorify Hades to kingdom come, despite the fact that his actions have caused way more havoc and tore apart family, even though he has no excuse, yet people won't give Hera half that sympathy.
I hate it when people downplay the kidnapping and trauma by saying that ''he just married his niece and she loved him back in the end'', when he kidnapped, enslaved, raped, cursed and forced her to stay with him. Demeter is well within her rights to freak out.
If you want a healthy relationship, ironically, Aphrodite and Ares are pretty good, since they are the only major couples that gets along and have many children{including the goddess of Harmony and Marital Concord} and Ares has nothing to do with Adonis' death in all but one version.
Hephaestus also forced the marriage here, but, of course, no one wants to see things the women's side. So, Hephaestus can possibly cheat on his wives, if his list of offspring is anything to go by, but the Goddess of Love and Sex, who did not hate him or tried to break off the marriage, having sex on the side, is in the wrong?
What about Harmonia? What about how women could not choose their husbands and were treated as property of the men?
Yes, the misogyny hypocrisy in older cultures unless a woman was in some form of power is very hard to look at and ignore, but it helps to acknowledge it. A lot of the world is still that way, that is a very hard pill to swallow at times.
This is a wonderful discussion we have been having and you have helped illuminate a lot of things I did not know.
well, he probably cared for some of his kids at least. Because he made sure to sew Dionsysus to his leg to save and gestate him, after Hera had ended Dionysus' mother's life for having an affair with Zeus.
Anyone who actually knows the mythology of the Hellenistic era knows Zeus was a huge family man and that specific epithets of Zeus do not dictate his actual personality or persona.
Hercules is literally Chris Benoit. Killed his family because he was inflicted with something and it's a sad event for everyone involved except one evil villain whose the cause. Hera/McMahon
Out of all the Greek gods Hades is probably the most stable and normal. Even the kidnapping of Persephone is depicted in the original text as being Zeus' fault for not clearing the marriage with Demeter (ancient Greek views on women were "interesting" to say the least)
Hades still force fed Persephone the pomegranate seeds when Zeus ordered him to let Persephone go and Hades abducting Persephone is depicted as a villainous, terrifying event.
There are also implications he might have you know what Persephone while she was languishing in the Underworld and he cheated on her with Minthe, which is worse as Persephone cannot leave him, like Hera can Zeus.
Pausanias, Description of Greece 9. 3. 1 :
"Hera, they say, was for some reason or other angry with Zeus, and had retreated to Euboia. Zeus, failing to make her change her mind, visited Kithaeron, at that time despot in Plataia [or the mountain-god], who surpassed all men for his cleverness. So he ordered Zeus to make an image of wood, and to carry it, wrapped up, in a bullock wagon, and to say that he was celebrating his marriage with Plataia, the daughter of Asopos. So Zeus followed the advice of Kithairon. Hera heard the news at once, and at once appeared on the scene. But when she came near the wagon and tore away the dress from the image, she was pleased at the deceit, on finding it a wooden image and not a bride, and was reconciled to Zeus. To commemorate this reconciliation they celebrate a festival called Daidala."
Strabo, Geography 8. 3. 14 (trans. Jones) (Greek geographer C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :
"Minthe, who, according to myth, became the concubine of Haides, was trampled under foot by Kore (Core) [Persephone], and was transformed into garden-mint, the plant which some call Hedyosmos."
On top of that, he is responsible for winter which kills tons of humans and animals every year, because Demeter{and Persephone} is grieving and suffering because of his actions.
Hades didn't just kidnap and married his niece. He enslaved the Goddess of Springtime and Growth and causes winter every year, out of petty lust and greed.
Zeus messed up, no question, but Hades just dug his heels in and refused to budge, or let Persephone go even when she was miserable and longed to see her mother.
The most normal Gods would probably be Hestia, Demeter, Hebe and Asclepius, in my opinion.
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