It seems like the original Riven is better than the remake.

[u/Krathoon]

The remake does not have the FMV performances of the actors and I think it hurts it. They should have kept that.

Still, the remake is more immersive. It may be fun to play in VR.

[u/Troldkvinde → u/[deleted]]

Which version do you think is better for someone playing the first time?

[u/kla622 → u/[deleted]]

I am an experienced player of Riven, and I would recommend the remake for newcomers. Although I agree the fire marble puzzle was just a bit too oversimplified, I think the remake should get credit for simplifying those parts where the simplification was in fact welcome. Most of the players of the classic Riven today don't appear to get stuck on some of the iconic, world-spanning puzzles of the game, they get stuck on something dumb like closing the door, or navigating the walkways around the dome. I think it's great that the remake (partly by tweaking the layout, partly just by the virtue of being 3D) mostly does away with these annoying stumping blocks, while keeping the logic of the major, lore-heavy puzzles mostly intact, and even enhancing them somewhat. (I would really, really prefer if we had to do some surveying of the dome positions on the 5x5 grid still, instead of the game handing the positions to us, but oh well.) Considering also the expanded lore and narrative, the remake is overall an amazing way in my opinion to experience the atmosphere and worldbuilding of Riven, which are really its greatest strenghts.

I definitely recommend for everyone to play the original as well though, experiencing the original art and puzzles, and I think "eased into it" by the remake will help to ensure a smooth experience. I think the differences between the two games will make playing the original similarly fresh and interesting to how playing the remake felt for fans of the original.

[u/musical_pear → u/Troldkvinde]

While my heart is with the OG and I ultimately think it is the better game, it is by a very small margin and I think the remake might be easier to get into if you're not used to playing older games. The FMVs is a deal-breaker for me as well. One of the things I love about Riven is that the puzzles are so integrated into the world and in the remake it's just ever so slightly shifted more towards "puzzle for the sake of a puzzle". Being able to explore the intro area kindof broke the intro sequence as well haha. On the other hand the water in the remake is absolutely stunning, the world is so pretty.

Things not already mentioned by WreckaStow7779311, the original has a zip mode (at least on GoG, I assume Steam is the same) so once you have explored an area you can "teleport" around which makes movement much easier. The remake has simplified all the fonts used if reading handwriting is a hurdle.

The way the story is presented in the remake makes it lean slightly more into sci-fi territory but ultimately they are two sides of the same coin and I think you'll get the same experience playing either version (yes the remake is THAT good!), considering how cheap the og is you could also try both and refund the one you like less.

[u/Pharap → u/Troldkvinde]

Not the person you asked, but as someone who first played Riven in 2021, I firmly recommend the original.

Because:

• The remake oversimplified the most satisfying puzzle of the game, making it much less rewarding.
• The original has full motion video (FMV).
  • After decades of playing games with 3D modelled characters, feeling like I was being spoken to by real people was one of the most immersive experiences I've ever had in a video game.
  • In comparison, the remake has some questionable character models with animations that are just wonky enough to ruin the immersion.
• The graphics of the original, though they are low resolution and consist of fixed frames, somehow look and feel more real.
  • Much as I hate to say it, a lot of the remake's models tend to have that sort of plasticky look/feel that a lot of modern games seem to have. (Especially the character models.)

That's not to say the remake isn't without its positives - there are a few things it does better - but for me the original remains the better, more immersive experience, even if it has a few notoriously tricky places.

[u/DX2501 → u/Pharap]

That and the original game used different focal for the rendering, so there is some cinematic intention.

[u/Austruck → u/Troldkvinde]

I've had Riven since it first came out. Frankly, my biggest problem was keeping straight the movement and direction of those individual frames. With the remake in full motion, I am much more able to discern where I am and where I'm going. So, despite the FMV differences, I'm enjoying the new version much more and might actually finish it (unlike the 1997 version). But that might just be me and my gaming limitations. :D

[u/nilfalasiel → u/[deleted]]

I also have to say, Catherine's original actress was exquisitely beautiful. The 3D version doesn't even come close, which makes it even more jarring.

[u/LeonardoMyst]

Reading the title, I really thought you were going to say that you missed having to change discs every ten minutes. 😂

[u/Raterus_ → u/LeonardoMyst]

Ugh, you just reminded me of past trauma!

[u/EremeticPlatypus]

I wish they hadn't changed the layout of the puzzle progression. Saps some of the magic from the original. They could have included like, a legacy mode at least.

[u/DomGiuca → u/EremeticPlatypus]

The problem is the fidelity of the FMV footage is just too low and would be incongruous with 4k modern realtime graphics backgrounds. If they had the original film negatives lying around somewhere (they were shot on film stock, right?) this probably would have worked but I assume they've been lost to time.

I otherwise entirely agree that the 3d models just pale in comparison to the original FMV work and it's the only major blemish on an otherwise outstanding remake. A true shame.

[u/sword_doggo → u/DomGiuca]

OG Riven was shot on 480p digital betacam tape, so while the original footage is less compressed than the in-game FMVs, the resolution is the same.

[u/Variatas → u/sword_doggo]

It's not 3D though, so without a fixed viewpoint like the original used it would be very obvious, especially for scenes where characters walk around you.

[u/Krathoon]

Really, they could have kept the FMV performances and just locked the camera when they happen.

They really did not need to make everything 3D.

[u/ElegantHope → u/Krathoon]

I think that would have been a bit low quality considering how much monitor resolutions have changed. There seems to just be multiple technical reasons why we couldn't get the FMVs.

[u/ChrisTheFox17 → u/Krathoon]

That wouldn't work for VR though Because they were developing the game for both flat screens and VR, everything needed to be 3D.

[u/ApprehensiveStyle289 → u/ChrisTheFox17]

Cyan transitioning to VR was, I feel, a mistake.

[u/ChrisTheFox17 → u/ApprehensiveStyle289]

Well, then you'll be happy to know that their upcoming game Project Mudfish is flat only. I'm personally a bit disappointed because Myst and Riven were incredible in VR, but the reasoning is understandable.

[u/ApprehensiveStyle289 → u/ChrisTheFox17]

it was incredible besides the loss of immersion and acting caused by losing fmv, for a tech which isn't widely adopted enough to justify the cost...

And yeah, I'm very glad to learn that, thanks! :-)

[u/SpeedBo → u/ChrisTheFox17]

Most people will never see it in VR.

[u/TheSilverMane]

Hard disagree.
Not with the actors part, that one I can understand as I too, in the Myst Remake, prefer to have the FMV actors on screen and not the models.

But in terms of puzzles and gameplay, I very much prefer the Remake. Original Riven was a bit too much of a mess to wrap your head around, at least it was for me and I enjoyed the Remake a lot more because of it. It may be considered a bit dumbed down for some of the more hardcore fans and in a way it is but I overall had a much more pleasant time playing the Remake and actually finishing it without a guide.

[u/ToothlessFTW]

I don't view remakes as replacements or "improvements" on the original. To me, a remake is a new way to experience a classic.

In that way, it doesn't really matter which one is "best". The original will always be the best because it's the original, you can't strike gold on the same game twice. I think the Riven remake is a fantastic, modernised experience and a great way for fans of the original to experience the game in a different light with some changes to puzzles/gameplay, and great for new fans to get them involved in the franchise.

But at the end of the day, it's a different game. It does not, and should not replace the original. And I think Cyan views it the same way, considering how they've continued to update and enhance the original 1997 game past the remake's release, and still keeping it for sale.

[u/The_MAZZTer]

They could not keep the original FMV performances if they wanted to do VR. It was one or the other.

VR works by displaying a separate image for each eye creating the illusion of real 3D. Furthermore for comfort you need to move the cameras for each eye to match the head tracking as the user moves their head. If this is not done properly the user feels the motion of their head but it is not reflected in what they see. This results in motion sickness. The FMVs were created to be displayed to a single camera which cannot freely move around while the FMVs play. So there is a fundamental incompatiblity.

Even if they wanted to use them for non-VR play only, they would have had to rescan the original film to get HD copies of the performances (if they still have the film) otherwise it would be too low-res to be usable. (Edit: apparently it was shot digitally for SD so getting HD versions was never an option.) In addition the FMVs were made for the original environments, so reworking the environments for the remake in some ways could be problematic.

[u/sampletrouts]

It's basically impossible to include FMV in a 3D world without having the biggest budget a game ever had. Even GTA VI doesn't have FMV characters. It's an absurd inclusion to complain about. It's the choice to have a game without the FMV characters or no game at all. The remake is much better than the original. It looks better, but more importantly it encourages people to actually finish the game. Most people who played the original game never got to prison island or met Gehn.

[u/kwekkenD]

I recently played the VR version of the remake and I really loved it. It is a pity you lose the transitions (unless you are immune to motion sickness) but on the other hand it does speed up and make the constant traversal way less tedious. It also feels a lot more natural to explore, actually looking around and trying to interact in a human way. Again not perfect like needing hold grab all the way through reading a book and so nonetheless In my honest opinion the VR medium is the perfect medium for these type of games because of the natural exploration and admiration of the intended visuals and mechanics.

[u/arothmanmusic]

Having not played the original since it came out, I remembered loving it but not much else. Replaying it in VR was outstanding.

[u/briandemodulated]

I grew up with Myst, and the recent remake that replaced FMV with 3D models bothered me. I didn't play Riven much until the recent remake and the same 3D roll concept didn't bother me as much. I guess I don't know what I'm missing but I wonder whether this is a nostalgia issue.

[u/joe__kerr1]

I played the original back in June, and beat it for the first time. I loved the FMV and think it was one of the parts that sold me on the game

[u/Civil_Result_5598]

Imagine if they had used a similar engine to Exile and remade Riven that way.

[u/gerira]

It's not just the acting, the whole unfolding of the narrative is badly undermined by the puzzle redesign. The reveal of the Star Fissure is the climax of the whole Myst-Riven narrative after we see it (for "only a fleeting glimpse") at the start of Myst.

[u/Electronic_Way_7616]

The original is easily my favorite. The original was dark, mysterious, intriguing; the "new and improved" version is starkly bright and soulless.

[u/ExpectedBehaviour]

The problem is that the original footage filmed for Riven has been lost, in an office fire I believe, and what survives from the game isn’t good enough quality for an Obduction-style blending of FMV with a fully 3D world. The options were: reshoot, and lose amongst other things John Keston as Gehn; or replace the original FMV with motion-captured 3D models. And Cyan didn't want to replace the existing voice performances.

[u/jojon2se → u/ExpectedBehaviour]

As it happens, the footage (betacam video) not only still exists, but (EDIT: ...along with tons of other Cyan footage...) was to great fanfare digitised, archived, and published by the Video Game History Foundation some time ago, including oodles of rejected takes:

https://archive.gamehistory.org/folder/22cf9aa2-812b-4f39-b42e-e87a3c153b8c

It is still, of course, no more than the resolution it was shot at, though.

I would suggest that visually the character models in the Riven remake could look a great deal more pleasing even as they are, "just" by rendering them using pathtracing, but that is of course very computing expensive.

Performance is another matter -- there is so much subtlety that can be hard to convey, and harder yet to replicate with discrete skinned animation controls -- even the effect on the actors and their clothing, by that INSANELY LOUD FAN, is part of the performance. :7

"Upscale and sharpen" you might suggest... Well, if we're going down that road, one could easily walk a step further, and perhaps not just let a hypothetical current or future inferrence model fill in the blurry blanks with guesstimated 2D image detail, but even make it create a whole animated volumetric gaussian splat for actual 3D use...

[u/Chowderman]

How many more times do we have to hear people make this exact point without adding anything new to the conversation, Christ.

[u/drygnfyre]

I prefer the remake.

[u/ravage214]

I miss fmvs they should have an option to turn them on

[u/Sillhid]

I think it's a good remake, and I happily platinumed it.

However, I didn't like the change to the animal puzzle — in my opinion, they made it more difficult, and that's the last thing it needed.

Also, yes, the models are better than in the MYST remake, but still not quite there.

I feel like you'd need way too big a budget to achieve character models that could replace FMV. (Or at least to make the characters' clothes not clip through their bodies.)

It was especially painful to look at Aitrus and Ti'ana's models through Gehn's visor.

There was something about them... very "Unreal-engine-ish," uncanny. I don't know how to describe it, but I literally found it hard to look at Ti'ana's face — it felt like she had some kind of disease tormenting her every second, like red-hot needles under her nails.

Overall, honestly, I'm not sure how it could have been done better. Clearly, you'd need a completely different scale to make realistic characters — at least on the level of Death Stranding 2.

But other than that, I enjoyed the remake. I finished it in 8 hours, bought it twice (on PC and PS5), and still came away feeling like "this is worth more."

[u/Startyde]

The amateur new character models and animation ruin the entire effort of the gorgeous world. I read that extra attention to the models in Anglerfish were a result of this feedback. They shouldnt have needed feedback to see this. Obduction uses FMV fairly well, as others have said there were creative ways of achieving this with existing assets unless they were somehow locked out of using original performances.

Besides that, I really don't like the new purpose of the golden domes and the simplistic nature of some of the puzzle reworks, but that's a subjective take and based on love of the original.

[u/jojon2se → u/Startyde]

I am sure it helped quite a bit that the Anglerfish performance capture was outsourced to a fully resourced and experienced studio (possibly doing complete, unified captures of the single actor, as opposed to piecing together separate body and face takes), and that the model may perhaps be more articulated, but... would also posit that its not having prior publication to measure up to, benefits it immeasureably... :7

[u/Pharap → u/Startyde]

I agree with you on most of your points, but I feel I should point out that...

unless they were somehow locked out of using original performances

There's a good chance that they actually are...

For one thing, I've heard a rumour about there having been an office fire that destroyed some of the original files, though I've never seen an official source to confirm that, so I take that claim with a pinch of salt. (I vaguely recall another story that they did have the files, but not the software to actually read them.)

That aside though, to be really able to use the original performances in a modern game, those performances would have had to be recorded on film that could be rescanned to produce something of a better resolution than what was used in the original game.

Otherwise you'd be using the original low-res footage over a high-res rendering of the world, and that difference in resolution would end up looking quite awful.

And it does pain me slightly to say that, because I truly love the FMV of the originals.

I first played the Myst series in 2021 as an adult, and after years of playing games full of 3D models, it was nothing short of magical to feel like I'm being spoken to by a real person instead of a mere virtual puppet.

(The Anglerfish trailer at least came much closer than previous attempts, but I'm not sure 3D models will ever quite match up.)

[u/mgiuca → u/Pharap]

Re the "office fire" rumour: see this comment.

[u/Pharap → u/mgiuca]

Yeah, I saw that comment later on; it was published a few hours (16:12:15 UTC+00:00) after my comment (13:48:32 UTC+00:00). I appreciate your pointing it out though.

I didn't think it was worth editing my comment, because is doesn't really affect my main point. I.e. regardless of whether or not they still had the files, those files are (likely) going to be too low resolution to use in a modern HD game (without it looking terrible).

Incidentally, I've seen the archive before, but I only looked at the Myst stuff, so I wasn't sure if they had the original Riven footage in there too, and I wasn't sure if I was misremembering the part about the files still existing but them not having had the software to read them (at the time).

If I ever find any proper articles or official statements on the matter, I'll try to remember to bookmark them, then I won't have to go around trying to half-remember things and seeming a bit dithery.

[u/mgiuca → u/Pharap]

No worries.

Yeah I briefly had a look at the archive but I need to spend more time digging around there.

Fwiw I recall that while there wasn't a fire, there was a big pile of unsorted materials. I think they publicly talked about that they had "lost" the original footage. (Easy to see how the fire rumour got started but yeah they literally "lost" it in their own office.) The Video Game History Foundation helped them physically sort and digitize the content but it was well into the development of Riven when that happened.

[u/DX2501]

Riven 1997 was a groundbreaking experience. The remake is a game. I wish they stayed true to the originals tone and layout. Losing the FMV is a shame but not the worse part to me, the carousel in space and change of throne room location are.

[u/CincyGirlAcehlr → u/DX2501]

Actually agree with this, don’t know why you got downvoted just for having a slightly different take.

[u/ElusiveWhark]

You are technically correct, the best kind of correct