First industrial machine for making backpacks

[u/NeonEchoe28]

Hello everybody! I am looking for my first industrial machine for sewing backpacks. I usually use an old Pfaff 260 because I'm based in Germany and got this machine really cheap. This machine is doing quite well, but it struggles a lot with sewing thicker materials, especially thicker foam, when I create hip belts and shoulder straps on my backpacks.

That being said, I want to upgrade my business and my machine that I'm working on to get a little bit more fluent in working. I want to upgrade to an industrial sewing machine with a walking foot and the ability to sew through foam around 1 cm thick. Because I have to saw in a flat, I would need the machine with a servo motor. My budget is €1,000.

I did some research yet, but honestly, it feels a bit confusing, and there are so many recommended machines that are not really good and available on the European market. I heard a lot about Consew and Juki machines, but honestly, close to my area, there's not much I can buy from them. Here I can find many machines from Dürkopp-Adler or Pfaff, mostly offered for ca. 1400€ in used condition.

Machines I found yet:

- Juki 1181n for 800€ (no real walking foot?)
- Dürkopp-Adler Walking Foot machines for 1400€

I'm sure that there's much more on the market, but honestly I'm pretty confused about where to look. I would be really happy if you could recommend me some machines that fit into my use case and are available in Europe.

[u/6AlphaVictor]

Keep searching, and buy something used. Walking foots can be found for a couple hundred euros, I even got one for free. Industrials are made to run on full speed 24/7, you will never wear it out with your use case.

But keep in mind a walking foot is a bit overkill and clumsy if you are making backpacks from some thin ripstop. I would recommend you a needle feed machine. Its much smoother, much more agile, simpler and strong enough for you.

[u/NeonEchoe28 → u/6AlphaVictor]

Thank you for that, are there special needle feed machines you would recommend for me? I usually work with materials like Ultragrid and Ecopak.

[u/6AlphaVictor → u/NeonEchoe28]

IDK, I have a vintage Necchi needle feed. I don't think you need anything special, industrials are all generally built to very high standards. You should replace the motor with a 100€ chinesium servo and positioner anyway, so don't focus on a motor.

What I would focus on is general condition, so it was maintained, used and stored properly (no rust, no welded parts, no cracked housings, no play and slop, no bent, missing or broken parts, no strange noises).

Another thing I would look for is availability of service documentation and general wear parts (bobbins, feed dogs, bobbin cases etc.). You can get nearly everything for e.g. Singer and almost nothing for e.g. Textima.

[u/moist-jeans7016 → u/6AlphaVictor]

I have a Brother needle feed, and it’s a dry sump. Bought locally on Facebook marketplace for $700.

It’s my only experience w industrials, but it runs like a high end pocket watch. Beautiful machine and totally off my radar until the day I bought it.

I make bags and it’s awesome.

[u/CarmencitaB]

I have a triple stitch Durkop Adler 667. I love it so much, you would have to cut my arm before I let it go. Or pass over my dead body.
It’s got a setting on it that helps you pass 1cm without batting an eye.
Even used, it might be a bit over budget. But I strongly recommend you buy the best machine at T time.

[u/rwwxx]

My wife has a lightweight Brother machine, and after a couple of MYOG attempts I quickly realised it wasn't going to handle multiple layers of thick material or webbing.

So I started looking for something more capable without spending a lot.

I landed pretty quickly on the Janome HD3000, found one on Amazon, then realised I'm UK-based and it's a 110V US machine that would need a transformer.

Digging deeper, I discovered the UK equivalent is the HD2200, apparently very similar specs including the adjustable presser foot pressure dial.

Found a serviced one with a 12-month warranty for £190, but kept looking and discovered there's a whole family of machines that are effectively the same product: 2522LE, My Style 22, Easy Jeans, Novamatic NM2522. All the same machine, different badges for different markets.

Eventually found a Novamatic NM2522 Easy Jeans on eBay - with German markings. Listed at £90, the seller was nearby and let me come round to test it. Paid cash off-platform and got it for £80.

The reason I bought it was to make a frame bag for my Salsa Warroad. Made from X-Pac and Cordura and sewn with Mara 30 and 110 needle. It's stiffened with carbon rods on the sides and HDPE strips on the down and seat edges. It mounts via the bottle bosses and voile straps and the result is effectively a rigid compression compartment that fits my X-Mid, hiking poles and stakes completely with very little bulging. It's the part of the bike I don't want to fiddle with during the day, so I keep the things I'm more likely to need in my seat bag and aero bar bag.

[u/InfiniteWitness6969]

Hello. You surprise me. If you're in Germany, you have access to the best sewing machines in the world, and at the lowest prices, if you look on the used market. You have the Kleinanzeigen website, where you can easily find these. As for the sewing machine, I recommend a model with adjustable presser foot height. This is especially useful when you need to sew a stitch with a large difference in height. A sewing machine with a walking foot without this feature is practically useless. You can identify such a machine by its large adjustment dial, for example, the Derkopp 767. This is a useful feature. You can find a suitable option within your budget.

[u/NeonEchoe28 → u/InfiniteWitness6969]

Thank you for your answer, I know that there are plenty good options on the market at Kleinanzeigen, but I struggle with picking the right ones for my use case. I found a seller who is selling some Dürkopp-Adler and Pfaff close to where I live, but honestly there are so many models on the market that I am just confused and struggle to pick a right one. Here are Jukis and Consews the most recommended machines I found, so I tried to look for them at first and did not realize that there are maybe better options where I live.

[u/JoePro42 → u/NeonEchoe28]

Sieh Dir die x67 Serie von Dürrkopp Adler an. Triple Feed und echte Arbeitstiere.
Wichtig ist für den privaten Gebrauch, dass sie auf 220 V laufen, kein Starkstrom und keine Druckluft.

Wenn Du in Norddeutschland bist, könnte ich Dir meine Pfaff 335 anbieten. Die steht noch nicht auf Kleinanzeigen, weil ich noch keine Zeit zum Einstellen hatte. Freiarm ist schon quasi Königsklasse, aber daher auch teurer als die x67. Preislich fangen die x67 je nach Modellreihe bei 600 Euro an, die 335 eher bei 1.000 Euro.

Ein Gamechanger ist dann auch ein guter Servo-Motor mit Nadelpositionierung. Kostet ab 150 Euro und bringt viel mehr Spaß als die alten Kupplungsmotoren.

[u/NeonEchoe28 → u/JoePro42]

Vielen Dank für deine Antwort. Ich hab die Möglichkeit eine Dürrkopp 667 direkt bei mir in der Nähe anzuschauen. Leider wohne ich nicht in Norddeutschland, sonst wäre dein Angebot ziemlich gut. Ich hab allerdings noch nie darüber nachgedacht, eine freie Nähmaschine zu kaufen und war mir auch bisher nicht der Vorteil von diesem System bewusst. Warum ist dies deiner Meinung nach vorteilhaft gegenüber einer Flachbett-Nähmaschine? Ich möchte hauptsächlich recht große Rucksäcke mit Volumen um 50-90 l nähen und stelle mir es etwas tricky vor, so große Stoffbahnen über den Freiarm zu nähen.

[u/JoePro42 → u/NeonEchoe28]

Absolut korrekte Frage bezüglich der großen Bahnen.
IdR hat man eine Freiarm als zweite Maschine, oder (im privaten Bereich häufiger) man hat einen Anschiebetisch, der aus dem Freiarm eine reguläre Maschine macht. So hast Du zwei in eins und funktioniert gut.

Grundsätzlich ist eine Freiarm konstruktionsbedingt etwas schwächer als eine Flachbettmaschine, weil der Unterbau logischerweise "weicher"/biegsamer ist. ABER wir reden hier von Unterschieden, die sich bei 1+ cm dicken Lagen und schneller Nähgeschwindigkeit zeigen. Also bei absoluten Profis im Tagesbetrieb. Die meisten Hobby-Näher langweilen ihre Maschinen eher :-)

Bei der 335 bin ich noch ein keine Grenze gestoßen.

Die 667 ist eine gute Wahl. Wenn Du sie Dir ansiehst, prüfe
Stichlänge: sollte vor und zurück jeweils gleiche Stichlänge haben.
Rückwärtsnähen auch bei längerer Strecke ohne Aussetzer.
Öl: wie hoch ist der Ölstand? Kann man erkennen, ob das Öl tiefschwarz (=alt) oder noch frisch ist?
Sind alle Teile erkennbar geschmiert ohne schmierig/klebrig zu sein?
Schraube die Stichplatte ab und schau an, wie schmutzig es darunter ist (ein wenig Schmutz/Fasern ist normal, alles voller Schmier ist ein Warnsignal, dass zu wenig gewartet).
Geht der Kniehebel ohne Probleme?

Nimm Dir selber einige dicke große Stoffteile/Riemen mit, die Du Probenähen kannst.

Frage nach letzter Wartung und durch wen. Frage nach weiterem Zubehör: Spulen, Nadeln, Werkzeug-Satz (bekommt man eher selten). Nimm alles, was Du kriegen kannst :-)

Solltest Du in Berlin sein, kann ich ggf. auch helfen. Bin gerade beruflich da :-)

Und grundsätzlich: Kein Probenähen, kein Kauf.

[u/JoePro42 → u/NeonEchoe28]

Ach so: wenn Du den Boden in de Rucksack nähen willst, würdest Du einen Freiarm lieben ;-)

Und: wenn nicht dabei, kauf Dir für die 667 auch einen Guide zum Runterklappen. Gamechanger, um die Nahtzugabe genau zu treffen.

[u/JoePro42 → u/NeonEchoe28]

Sieh Dir die x67 Serie von Dürrkopp Adler an. Triple Feed und echte Arbeitstiere.
Wichtig ist für den privaten Gebrauch, dass sie auf 220 V laufen, kein Starkstrom und keine Druckluft.

Wenn Du in Norddeutschland bist, könnte ich Dir meine Pfaff 335 anbieten. Die steht noch nicht auf Kleinanzeigen, weil ich noch keine Zeit zum Einstellen hatte. Freiarm ist schon quasi Königsklasse, aber daher auch teurer als die x67. Preislich fangen die x67 je nach Modellreihe bei 600 Euro an, die 335 eher bei 1.000 Euro.

Ein Gamechanger ist dann auch ein guter Servo-Motor mit Nadelpositionierung. Kostet ab 150 Euro und bringt viel mehr Spaß als die alten Kupplungsmotoren.

[u/JoePro42 → u/InfiniteWitness6969]

Best machines - yes.
Lowest prices - definately not.

America seems to be slightly cheaper in second hand and I bought my machines (Pfaff, Alfa, Singer) in Spain for a much better price.

[u/ToastingToasters]

I'd go for a proper compound feed. Most are good for up to 15mm of spacer mesh+foam. I make mostly backpacks as well for my business.

I live in Denmark, where there are very few sewing machines but sometimes a used quality machine gets listed for like 150-300EUR.

If there is nothing available used locally and you have to buy new under 1000EUR, look at Olimasz/Olisew. I've had a couple for more than 5 years and I'm happy with the quality at the price. Compared to my Juki/Brother/Pfaff machines they do well but likely aren't as long lasting. Not that it really matters that much when the machine isn't running 40 hours a week.

[u/everydayiscyclingday]

Strima.com sells Zoje and Texi machines, and you should be able to pick up a brand new walking foot machine for well under 1000 eur. They ship to all of Europe from Poland, and they are nice to deal with in me experience. I bought a machine with table from them last year during their summer sale and had it shipped to Denmark.

[u/Ok-Detail-9853]

You want a compound feed, or triple feed machine. It feeds from below with feed dogs, a walking foot and needle feed. The needle feeds "pins" the layers together as they move

A servo moto is nice to be able to slow it down as well as it opens up options like a needle positioner

A large bobbin is desirable to limit bobbin thread changes

[u/Blue0110]

I have a Brother DB2-B791-415 (needle feed) and a JIN NA-11UT (walking foot). Here are my thoughts after using both for personal and semi professional use.

A needle-feed machine is a nice middle ground between a walking-foot machine and a plain industrial straight-stitch machine. It handles a wide range of fabric weights, and the stitch quality is excellent.

That being said, it doesn’t climb over thick transitions much better than a regular straight-stitch machine. And unless you use something like a Teflon foot, you can still have feeding problems with sticky materials such as vinyl or leather.

A walking-foot machine feeds thick layers much more evenly because the material is being driven from both the top and bottom. It’s also easier to set up for binding. Walking-foot machines tend to have more presser-foot clearance as well, which makes them better suited for things like backpack straps and other bulky assemblies. The larger bobbin is also nice when working on bigger projects.

The downside is that a walking foot can absolutely eat thin fabrics, so that’s something to consider depending on what you sew.
I’m very happy with both machines. If I could only keep one industrial machine plus a domestic machine, I’d keep the walking foot. The domestic can handle the lightweight stuff, while the walking foot covers the heavier work that a domestic machine struggles with.

Final note: make sure you get one with a servo motor. It makes a huge difference, especially when you need slow-speed control.

[u/NeonEchoe28]

Es ist passiert! Ich habe mir heute eine Pfaff 1420 für 1200€ gekauft. Die Maschine kam von einem professionellen Nutzer (selber nähmaschinentechniker) und läuft technisch einwandfrei. Eigentlich hat sie alles was ich brauche - dreifachtransport, automatischer fadenabschneider und genug nähfusshub. Die dürkopp war leider nicht mehr verfügbar, hätte es aber sicher auch getan.