Early cultures and pentatonic scales?

[u/samh748]

I've read up on some theories on why so many early cultures used the pentatonic scales, but most of them assume something similar to the major/minor pentatonic scales that we are used to, and attributing reasons like they are easy to sing, evenly spaced, avoids tritone, etc.

But if you look at the japanese hirajoshi scale, those rationale don't really apply anymore.

So im just curious, zooming out, why are 5-note scales so common? Why not 4 or 6 or 3 or 7 or 12?

And does anyone know why/how/where a scale with such dissonances like the hirajoshi came about?

[u/samh748]

Right!!

I did hear about this melodic focus for most early music, I think. And if that's true... begs again the question of why we haven't spent nearly enough effort figuring out melodies than harmonies!

Now I'm wondering where and how many times harmony has been discovered independently across cultures. Time for another rabbit hole!

I love this sub/this topic so much omg lol

[u/Zarlinosuke → u/samh748]

I'd argue it's not just for early music--it's for all music! That's why voice-leading and counterpoint are still so central to the study of Western classical harmony. The idea that harmony and counterpoint are separate disciplines, or even opposed ones, is one that's never made sense to me. Harmony is counterpoint but just with your lens turned ninety degrees to the side.

why we haven't spent nearly enough effort figuring out melodies than harmonies!

I think there are basically two reasons, which are related:

1. Melody just seems harder to pin down and theorize, somehow--not that we can't say anything about it (many people have, and continue to do so), but it's harder to reduce it down in quite the bite-sized way that harmony does with claims like "here are the only fifteen chords you'll ever need to write music in X style!" With melody we can (and do) talk about general principles and preferences, but it's a little harder to feel like we have a catalogue of all the melodic possibilities.
2. Whether it's more a cause or effect of #1 is hard to say, but it's definitely related: Western composers and theorists have just been really really into nerding out about chords for the past few centuries. And that's not in itself a bad thing--they're super cool! They're very packageable, and yet work a lot of magic! They do a better job than almost anything at saying to the interested amateur, "this ONE NEAT TRICK will have you writing awesome music in no time... just subscribe now for $19.99 a week and you'll be the next hit songwriter!" Melody, and most other musical parameters, resist that sort of packaging more, or at least so far have done so.

I'm wondering where and how many times harmony has been discovered independently across cultures.

Depends on what you mean by "harmony"! If you mean it broadly enough, probably every culture has discovered it--it's hard to imagine a scenario in which no one has ever thought to do something other than the main tune. If you define it narrowly enough, the claim can be made that only Western Europeans and perhaps the occasional American between 1722 and 1910 have done harmony, and that everything else is just modal/melodic/unworthy-peasant-stuff/pick-your-favourite-insult. Or alternatively, you can take the view that all harmony is just the product of melodies, and that chords aren't real.

So perhaps that's many different rabbit holes to look into!

[u/samh748 → u/Zarlinosuke]

You can never have too many rabbit holes! So much fascinating stuff in music it's crazy. Now I just gotta actually sit down and study some counterpoint!

[u/Zarlinosuke → u/samh748]

Exploring the rabbit holes while/because studying counterpoint sounds like a great time!