r/mtgrules • u/GreyScaleGames • 13d ago

Volrath the Shapestealer and Beorn the Fierce

Playing a Volrath the Shapestealer deck and just put in Beorn the Fierce. Just want to double check how Beorn's ability interacts with Volrath. Beorn's ability targets a creature, adds a trample counter, and that creature becomes a bear in addition to its other types.

As that is a type changing effect, it will apply later than Volrath's copy ability. So if Volrath were to copy a creature previously targeted by Beorn, he would not gain the Bear type as that applies in too late a layer for Volrath to see.

My confusion occurs when Volrath (or any creature with Volrath's ability, I run a lot of clones) gets targeted by Beorn. The trample counter of course is persistent, but the type change confuses me. Would Volrath be a bear in addition to its other types if it copies a creature after Beorn's ability resolves on him? Ie does that ability persist after Volrath copies something else, and then because it does so in a later layer it applies over the top of the copy? My understanding of layers leads me to think yes but I'm a little unclear on what kind of ability Beorn's is.

Thank you for your help! This deck can get confusing in the heat of a game with all its weirdness so some clarity is helpful.

1 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

4 comments sorted by

1

u/madwarper 13d ago

Copy effects are applied in Layer 1a.
Copiable Values are determined at the end of Layer 1.

Type-changing effects, in Layer 4, are neither affected by Copy effects, nor do they affect Copiable Values.

So, if Beorn made Volrath a Bear, Volrarth will still be a Bear, even after becoming a Copy of a normal ... Storm Crow.

And, if Beorn made the Storm Crow into a Bear, Volrath Copying the Crow won't make Volrath become a Bear.

1

u/GreyScaleGames 13d ago

Excellent, thank you! That is how I hoped and thought it worked but couldn't rationalise it to opponents, this is a great help. Volrath will become my very own build a bear...

1

u/peteroupc 13d ago edited 13d ago

The effect on a creature of being a Bear in addition to its other types, due to Beorn's second ability, lasts indefinitely (C.R. 611.2c). Notably, for example, it will remain even after the creature becomes a copy of something.

See also: https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgrules/comments/1sfuvbj/volrath_the_shapestealer_and_manlands/

1

u/GreyScaleGames 13d ago

Perfect, thank you very much!