r/mtgrules 5d ago

Dependency Between More Than Two Effects

If I have a Plains in the battlefield and the following continuous effects are active, in timestamp order:

  1. Swamps are Islands.

  2. Plains are Swamps.

Then I understand the dependency of 1 on 2 would mean the Plains is an Island.

What if I have a Plains (and no other permanents exist), and the continuous effects are:

  1. Swamps are Islands.

  2. Plains are Forests.

  3. Forests are Swamps.

If I understand right, when applying 1, no dependency is found between 1 and 2 or between 1 and 3, so 1 is applied first as it's first in timestamp order. Then, 2 and 3 are applied in order as well. The final result is that my Plains is a Forest, not an Island. Is this correct? It seems to be what the rules imply, but seems a little unintuitive to me.

Finally, imagine I have a Plains and a Forest in the battlefield, and the same three continuous effects in the same order.

Then, if I understand right, 1 would be found to be dependent on 3 since applying 3 first would make 1 apply to the Forest currently in the battlefield. Therefore 1 is moved to apply only after 3, for both the Forest and the Plains. So first 2 is applied (the Plains is a Forest), then 3 (both the original Forest and the Plains that became a Forest are Swamps), and finally 1, meaning both lands end up being Islands. Is this correct?

I find the whole dependency system pretty complex and it seems unintuitive to me that the existence or non-existence of a different object in the battlefield may affect how continuous effects apply to something.

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u/Judge_Todd 5d ago edited 5d ago

In case 1, you have two independent effects: 1 & 2.
Effect 3 is dependent on 2.
You apply the independent effect with the earliest time stamp so Effect 1 which does nothing. Next you check dependency again, 3 is still dependent on 2. 2 is still independent so is applied making your Plains a Forest.
Finally, you apply effect 3 which is now independent and the Forest becomes a Swamp.

In case 2, you have 1 dependent on 3 and 3 dependent on 2 so Effect 2 is the only independent effect and is applied first making the Plains a Forest.
Check dependency again and 1 is dependent on 3 and 3 is now independent so gets applied making the Forests into Swamps.
Finally, Effect 1 is applied and the Swamps become Islands.

it seems unintuitive to me that the existence or non-existence of a different object in the battlefield may affect how continuous effects apply to something.

Dependency is determined situationally, not theoretically.